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In reply to the discussion: Time for Realism and Common Sense on Ukraine [View all]ProSense
(116,464 posts)9. Interesting
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The Obama administration has responded to the crisis by flexing its own rhetorical muscles. When Russian President Vladimir Putin ignored Obamas warning that there will be costs if Russia sent troops into Crimea, Secretary of State John Kerry denounced the brazen act of aggression, vowing that Russia is going to lose, the Russian people are going to lose and suggesting asset freezes isolation with respect to trade and investment, while promising economic assistance of the major sort for whatever government emerges in Kiev.
European governments were far more measured, with many condemning Russias Crimean invasion but most of them clearly reluctant to impose economic sanctions. Their economic ties to Russia are much closer than Americas, of course, but they also understand that diplomacy will be more effective. Among the cooler heads at home was Jack Matlock, ambassador to the Soviet Union under Ronald Reagan, who described the administrations warnings to Putin as ill-advised and argued that whatever slim hope that Moscow might avoid overt military intervention in Ukraine disappeared when Obama in effect threw down a gauntlet and challenged him. This was not just a mistake of political judgmentit was a failure to understand human psychologyunless, of course, he actually wanted a Russian intervention, which is hard for me to believe.
The Obama administration has responded to the crisis by flexing its own rhetorical muscles. When Russian President Vladimir Putin ignored Obamas warning that there will be costs if Russia sent troops into Crimea, Secretary of State John Kerry denounced the brazen act of aggression, vowing that Russia is going to lose, the Russian people are going to lose and suggesting asset freezes isolation with respect to trade and investment, while promising economic assistance of the major sort for whatever government emerges in Kiev.
European governments were far more measured, with many condemning Russias Crimean invasion but most of them clearly reluctant to impose economic sanctions. Their economic ties to Russia are much closer than Americas, of course, but they also understand that diplomacy will be more effective. Among the cooler heads at home was Jack Matlock, ambassador to the Soviet Union under Ronald Reagan, who described the administrations warnings to Putin as ill-advised and argued that whatever slim hope that Moscow might avoid overt military intervention in Ukraine disappeared when Obama in effect threw down a gauntlet and challenged him. This was not just a mistake of political judgmentit was a failure to understand human psychologyunless, of course, he actually wanted a Russian intervention, which is hard for me to believe.
I'll give that a pass since it was written 10 days before the UN vote, in which even China left Russia out in the cold. The EU will propose stronger sanctions in the aftermath of the vote.
We should take a deep breathand a sober lookbefore committing treasure and prestige to a still-unsettled new leadership in a country on Russias border, one that has had a fragile independent existence for barely two decades. Some history would also serve us well if were to understand fast-moving developments. We are reaping the bitter fruit of a deeply flawed postCold War settlement that looks more like Versailles than Bretton Woods, a settlement inflamed by the shortsighted American decision to expand NATO eastward and pursue other policies aimed at isolating Russia and ignoring Russian interests.
This and the claim about Obama's rhetoric read like the editors are implying a threat of force, which is not the reality. Russia did not have to choose this course. The offer has been a diplomatic solution and still is (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024664709)
Russias dispatch of military forces to Crimea is a clear violation of international law. Putin justifies the invasion as necessary to protect Russian citizens and allies, but this is a fig leaf. The Obama administration is right to condemn it, although much of the world will grimace at the irony of Secretary Kerry denouncing the invasion of a sovereign country even as the United States only now winds down its war of choice against Iraq, which is thousands of miles away from US borders. Crimea, of course, not only abuts Russia but houses its Black Sea Fleet, which, by treaty agreement between Ukraine and Russia, is set to remain there until at least 2042. Crimea historically was part of Russia until 1954, when Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev transferred it to Ukraine in what many viewed as a gesture of good will.
Yes, yes and yes, but the claim about Kerry denouncing the invasion after the first three points is almost cartoonish.
Fact, the Russian invasion and Crimea referendum are illegal.
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I'm really disappointed by Obama and Kerry's overblown rhetoric. It's been so off the mark.
reformist2
Mar 2014
#2
I disagree. But let's explore that. The invasion of Crimea has strengthened NATO and
stevenleser
Mar 2014
#33
To varying degrees, but they certainly wont be close now, will they? Even Serbia is embarrassed
stevenleser
Mar 2014
#66
It's a big deal to Russia. Serbian and Russian nationalists have historically been very close.
stevenleser
Mar 2014
#88
unlike the US, who consistently shows aggression toward our "non next-door neighbors"
magical thyme
Mar 2014
#131
I am gratefull for their restraint, considering the recent example we have set on the world stage.
T. J. Kong
Mar 2014
#91
Yes, you're essentially a partisan on Russia's side, with the only objection
geek tragedy
Mar 2014
#104
Your mission here is obviously to troll DUers with insinuation and name-calling
cprise
Mar 2014
#135
So, in a nutshell: hypocrites don't give a flying fuck about the blatancy of their hypocrisy. nt
delrem
Mar 2014
#23
I do believe that today's referendum was hugely, 80+%, in favour of a certain outcome.
delrem
Mar 2014
#31
"Why would anyone want to be on the side of justifying an illegal invasion? "
Comrade Grumpy
Mar 2014
#57
Pointing out that Putin is protecting his own interests is merely a fact,not a value judgement.
scarletwoman
Mar 2014
#34
"Putin justifies the invasion as necessary to protect Russian citizens...but this is a fig leaf."
ProSense
Mar 2014
#51
The real reason IS protecting Russia's interests. And Russia most certainly deemed it necessary.
scarletwoman
Mar 2014
#69
"World powers will always find excuses for their actions, why should Russia be any different?"
ProSense
Mar 2014
#73
I was never trying to justify it in the 1st place, only pointing out why Putin would justify it. nt
scarletwoman
Mar 2014
#103
Really? Pointing out that Black Sea access is important to Russia is "pushing his propaganda"?
scarletwoman
Mar 2014
#110
Is "pointing out that Black Sea access is important to Russia" justification for the invasion?
ProSense
Mar 2014
#127
C'mon, Cha. I believe you're a good-hearted person. Why are you pulling this shit?
scarletwoman
Mar 2014
#100
Well, he went ahead and brought up other recent, sucessful independent referendums, which isn't fair
T. J. Kong
Mar 2014
#121
Okay then! Since Crimea WAS, at one time, a part of Russia, then you shouldn't have any objections
scarletwoman
Mar 2014
#50
+1. It's embarrassing to see Obama try and lecture about territorial borders. Uh, Mr. President,
quinnox
Mar 2014
#8
Yes, it's all about President Obama and SOS Kerry.. Nothing about Poor Putin's Aggression?
Cha
Mar 2014
#22
Great editorial! Many good points made - people should go read the whole thing.
scarletwoman
Mar 2014
#4
“Russia – the only country in the world, capable of transforming the U.S. into radioactive ash"
stevenleser
Mar 2014
#32
I don't see this editorial is scolding anyone other than Republican neo-cons
ConservativeDemocrat
Mar 2014
#52
Anyone who saber-rattles is dumb, but the focus should be on Russia and their invasion. Not the
stevenleser
Mar 2014
#65
You know, the OP simply posted an editorial from The Nation and said he agreed with it.
scarletwoman
Mar 2014
#54
The "USA into RadioActive Dust"guy was recently chosen by Putin to lead an official news agency..
Cha
Mar 2014
#58
Well, that person shared an important piece of information. The media person who said this was
stevenleser
Mar 2014
#141
Under the circumstances, that kind of thing is predictable and doesn't concern me.
2banon
Mar 2014
#142
Do you agree that Putin's actions were a "clear violation of international law"?
ProSense
Mar 2014
#82
But..but...Looking Tough and screaming Bogeyman is ever so much easier.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Mar 2014
#98