General Discussion

T. J. Kong

(46 posts)

102. Right

Mon Mar 17, 2014, 12:17 AM

Mar 2014

plus a bunch more, which doesn't equate with your characterization of my post.

I apologize for not being more clear, but my main points were simply...

Pros:

1. No shots fired (by Russia)
2. Democratic process chosen in Crimea

Con:

1. Not enough timely communication in the immediate aftermath of the coup (by Russia)

Hope:

1. Influential parties to this crisis engage in constructive dialog to find a solution to settle the crisis peacefully, rather than unnecessary, and hostile tit-for-tat attacks, with a juvenile with-us, or again-us mentality.

This is a serious situation, with important, and powerful countries, not prostrate, and weak, like those we are currently still struggling with. So, it would be much wiser to take a different approach to ensure we DE-escalate, and NOT escalate.

I hope that is more clear.

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Time for Realism and Common Sense on Ukraine [View all] mazzarro Mar 2014 OP

Excellent editorial malaise Mar 2014 #1

Excellent, but with one glaring problem. MattSh Mar 2014 #122

I'm really disappointed by Obama and Kerry's overblown rhetoric. It's been so off the mark. reformist2 Mar 2014 #2

Do you have any criticisms of Russia's handling of this? Nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #3

it's not surprising, given the circumstances magical thyme Mar 2014 #7

One could point out that given Russia's aggression towards geek tragedy Mar 2014 #10

NATO is an expansionist, explicitly anti-Russian military empire cprise Mar 2014 #21

I disagree. But let's explore that. The invasion of Crimea has strengthened NATO and stevenleser Mar 2014 #33

The other (ex)Warsaw pact countries aren't so close to Moscow cprise Mar 2014 #53

To varying degrees, but they certainly wont be close now, will they? Even Serbia is embarrassed stevenleser Mar 2014 #66

Probably not a big deal to Russians. Serbia was never part of Russia, nor USSR. cprise Mar 2014 #78

It's a big deal to Russia. Serbian and Russian nationalists have historically been very close. stevenleser Mar 2014 #88

NATO seems like an awfully good deal to countries geek tragedy Mar 2014 #36

If they imagine themselves like Poland, with a military economic boost. cprise Mar 2014 #62

If that meant that the days of Russia's bullying were over, I doubt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #68

That doesn't mean they are "left alone" by everyone cprise Mar 2014 #80

Greece's problems are largely home grown. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #83

Or Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Iceland, etc. cprise Mar 2014 #99

unlike the US, who consistently shows aggression toward our "non next-door neighbors" magical thyme Mar 2014 #131

I don't disagree. nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #132

^This! 1000+! 2banon Mar 2014 #109

I am gratefull for their restraint, considering the recent example we have set on the world stage. T. J. Kong Mar 2014 #91

Ok, so your only objection was that Russia didn't meddle geek tragedy Mar 2014 #93

I'm sorry, but I think you responded to the wrong post. T. J. Kong Mar 2014 #95

Nope. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #96

Right T. J. Kong Mar 2014 #102

Yes, you're essentially a partisan on Russia's side, with the only objection geek tragedy Mar 2014 #104

Actually T. J. Kong Mar 2014 #105

Your mission here is obviously to troll DUers with insinuation and name-calling cprise Mar 2014 #135

Shots fired by Russia: muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #123

Sounds like an isolated incident (OSCE)... and Ukranian military cprise Mar 2014 #136

It was not a border muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #146

That was *after* murderous insurgents took over the govt cprise Mar 2014 #147

I agree. I find their "tough talk" all rather embarrassing. scarletwoman Mar 2014 #5

yep. nt Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #11

The editorial states ProSense Mar 2014 #13

From the same paragraph: scarletwoman Mar 2014 #17

Like I said, ProSense Mar 2014 #19

So, in a nutshell: hypocrites don't give a flying fuck about the blatancy of their hypocrisy. nt delrem Mar 2014 #23

Yes, ProSense Mar 2014 #26

I do believe that today's referendum was hugely, 80+%, in favour of a certain outcome. delrem Mar 2014 #31

Sure ProSense Mar 2014 #35

ah. I see. Putin forced the vote at gunpoint. delrem Mar 2014 #40

No, ProSense Mar 2014 #48

OK, I'll try to bring a little sense to this. delrem Mar 2014 #77

By posting nonsense? n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #79

Its more like schizophrenia than taboo. n/t cprise Mar 2014 #117

I think that it's a fully conscious taboo. delrem Mar 2014 #120

"Why would anyone want to be on the side of justifying an illegal invasion? " Comrade Grumpy Mar 2014 #57

You ask her. ProSense Mar 2014 #60

Depends on whether one considers the "regime change" legal cprise Mar 2014 #90

Oh, they're all about comdemning President Obama and PUmping up Putin.. Cha Mar 2014 #25

Pointing out that Putin is protecting his own interests is merely a fact,not a value judgement. scarletwoman Mar 2014 #34

"Putin justifies the invasion as necessary to protect Russian citizens...but this is a fig leaf." ProSense Mar 2014 #51

The real reason IS protecting Russia's interests. And Russia most certainly deemed it necessary. scarletwoman Mar 2014 #69

"World powers will always find excuses for their actions, why should Russia be any different?" ProSense Mar 2014 #73

Oh for cripessakes! I said "protecting Russian citizens" was an excuse. scarletwoman Mar 2014 #89

None of it justifies Putin's illegal invasion. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #97

I was never trying to justify it in the 1st place, only pointing out why Putin would justify it. nt scarletwoman Mar 2014 #103

Everyone knows why Putin would "justify it" ProSense Mar 2014 #106

Really? Pointing out that Black Sea access is important to Russia is "pushing his propaganda"? scarletwoman Mar 2014 #110

+10000 tsuki Mar 2014 #112

Is "pointing out that Black Sea access is important to Russia" justification for the invasion? ProSense Mar 2014 #127

+1000 cprise Mar 2014 #101

WTH? n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #107

FYI cprise Mar 2014 #115

Yes, how touching.. a dictator protecting his own aggressive interests. Cha Mar 2014 #64

C'mon, Cha. I believe you're a good-hearted person. Why are you pulling this shit? scarletwoman Mar 2014 #100

Don't forget Putin is stopping the next Hitler. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2014 #133

Readout of the President's Call with Putin.. Cha Mar 2014 #28

Of course nothing Putin said is reported. former9thward Mar 2014 #41

It was a message left on Putin's voicemail. scarletwoman Mar 2014 #47

Well, he went ahead and brought up other recent, sucessful independent referendums, which isn't fair T. J. Kong Mar 2014 #121

non violent Duckhunter935 Mar 2014 #126

And it's really that simple malaise Mar 2014 #16

Great point! scarletwoman Mar 2014 #20

The Falklands have never been part of Argentina which geek tragedy Mar 2014 #38

Nice you take the position of the British monarchy. former9thward Mar 2014 #42

No, I take the position of the rest of the planet. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #46

Okay then! Since Crimea WAS, at one time, a part of Russia, then you shouldn't have any objections scarletwoman Mar 2014 #50

Taking back by force, no. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #56

Your definition of the "rest of the planet" is rather limited. former9thward Mar 2014 #61

The rightwing dictatorships in Latin America backed up the military geek tragedy Mar 2014 #70

And you are backing a right wing government in Ukraine, today. former9thward Mar 2014 #72

Rightwing? It's an interim government until May and contains geek tragedy Mar 2014 #75

Ha, still no authorities in US have so much as slapped the wrist cprise Mar 2014 #114

No one here is scared of Putin as a threat to us. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #116

I do care that a lot of hysteria is distracting people cprise Mar 2014 #118

"The CIA has put the US Senate under surveillance" geek tragedy Mar 2014 #119

"those who defend rt.com have zero standing" cprise Mar 2014 #144

+1. It's embarrassing to see Obama try and lecture about territorial borders. Uh, Mr. President, quinnox Mar 2014 #8

+1 840high Mar 2014 #74

Yes, it's all about President Obama and SOS Kerry.. Nothing about Poor Putin's Aggression? Cha Mar 2014 #22

Great editorial! Many good points made - people should go read the whole thing. scarletwoman Mar 2014 #4

Thanks for this-I think we're doing okay so far, but babylonsister Mar 2014 #6

Interesting ProSense Mar 2014 #9

"Crimea referendum are illegal" zeemike Mar 2014 #12

Spare me. The editorial made that point. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #14

No. Igel Mar 2014 #18

Your knowledge of what is happening in the Crimea referendum is remarkable. zeemike Mar 2014 #27

So suddenly parlaiment votes Yanukovych out of office while armed insurgents cprise Mar 2014 #29

Right, Putin cares about democracy and self-determination. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #30

Well pardon me. zeemike Mar 2014 #39

Well, those who side with Putin, and Assad, and Gaddhafi etc when they're geek tragedy Mar 2014 #43

When I criticize Obama it is for what he does or does not do. zeemike Mar 2014 #59

There are people who NEVER side with the US if it's in a dispute geek tragedy Mar 2014 #63

Well perhaps that is because they don't think we should be having zeemike Mar 2014 #76

Sure, that's called isolationism. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #81

And what nation is against us? zeemike Mar 2014 #86

As I said, what you advocate is isolationism. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #87

And under yours we were wrong not to invade Syria. zeemike Mar 2014 #92

That is binary thinking. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #94

Well glad you reject binary thinking. zeemike Mar 2014 #130

Oh spare me already. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #45

Well I believe in that saying zeemike Mar 2014 #67

Iraq and Afghanistan were the last guy. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #71

Well that is why we always have to look forward zeemike Mar 2014 #84

You've got to be joking. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #124

Well this is not a conflict between Obama and Putin. zeemike Mar 2014 #128

Wait, the Russian language is illegal in Ukraine now? NuclearDem Mar 2014 #129

Right.. Puppets for Putin are getting more and more bizarre.. Cha Mar 2014 #44

Cool, that's my alma mater davidpdx Mar 2014 #125

well, much of that has been obvious from the beginning stupidicus Mar 2014 #15

Rove Claims GWB Sent 'Strong Message' To Putin After Georgia Invasion - lol T. J. Kong Mar 2014 #24

�Russia � the only country in the world, capable of transforming the U.S. into radioactive ash" stevenleser Mar 2014 #32

This Pity for Putin Party is bizarre, Steven.. The lengths some will Cha Mar 2014 #49

I don't see this editorial is scolding anyone other than Republican neo-cons ConservativeDemocrat Mar 2014 #52

Anyone who saber-rattles is dumb, but the focus should be on Russia and their invasion. Not the stevenleser Mar 2014 #65

You would think.. the USA's response is commensurate to Putin's Invasion. Cha Mar 2014 #85

You know, the OP simply posted an editorial from The Nation and said he agreed with it. scarletwoman Mar 2014 #54

^This! 1000+! 2banon Mar 2014 #137

The "USA into RadioActive Dust"guy was recently chosen by Putin to lead an official news agency.. Cha Mar 2014 #58

Why do you give any weight of importance to that flame bating b.s.? 2banon Mar 2014 #138

See Cha's #58 above. nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #139

no can see 2banon Mar 2014 #140

Well, that person shared an important piece of information. The media person who said this was stevenleser Mar 2014 #141

Under the circumstances, that kind of thing is predictable and doesn't concern me. 2banon Mar 2014 #142

There is very little chest thumping by anyone here. nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #143

Okay.. Cha Mar 2014 #37

Because right-wing terrorists make for a good voting environment. n/t cprise Mar 2014 #145

wow, happy to rec this.... mike_c Mar 2014 #55

Do you agree that Putin's actions were a "clear violation of international law"? ProSense Mar 2014 #82

But..but...Looking Tough and screaming Bogeyman is ever so much easier. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #98

K&R'd 2banon Mar 2014 #108

Time to mind our own business and stay out of their clusterfuck jsr Mar 2014 #111

Yes, when a child is attacked by bullies, it's best to just walk away. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2014 #134

Always remember that when it comes to foreign policy... Scootaloo Mar 2014 #113

Excellent. woo me with science Mar 2014 #148