General Discussion

Crunchy Frog

(28,278 posts)

184. To be fair

Mon Mar 17, 2014, 01:16 AM

Mar 2014

There are different ways of counting, depending on if your going from LMP, or going from the point at which development actually began. When you're 4 weeks pregnant, it's actually only about 2 weeks after ovulation. If you're counting according to the time the embryo has actually been developing, then 4 weeks is about when the heart begins beating.

I went through IVF and frozen embryo transfer, so I kind of obsessed about every stage of development early on.

What I think is much worse is that "realistic" 12 week fetus doll. Other than size, that one is about 22 weeks off, looking more like a mildly preterm newborn, like my IVF twins were. No actual 12 week fetus has subcutaneous fat, chubby cheeks, muscle tone, and a mouth with little round lips that are ready to begin suckling.

I'd be very curious to know what other clubs they have at that school, and what kinds of displays they have. They weren't very forthcoming on that information. Are we talking chess clubs with pictures of chess games?

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Life-sized fetus causes cafeteria controversy at Connecticut school [View all] The Straight Story Mar 2014 OP

What the hell? shenmue Mar 2014 #1

I looked at the video and my main concerns are the editorializing, false info and the enlarged photo uppityperson Mar 2014 #107

I think she should be allowed to do this. CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2014 #2

It does seem scientifically accurate (nt) The Straight Story Mar 2014 #3

It sure does. CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2014 #4

I don't think the lunch room is the place for that. Ilsa Mar 2014 #7

I think it's fine. CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2014 #8

Not every moment is a teaching moment. Ilsa Mar 2014 #13

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. I don't agree. CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2014 #15

Sure, put a display of the human intestinal system on Ilsa Mar 2014 #24

Is there a school club that covers that? The Straight Story Mar 2014 #25

It's just another Science Project, like other science projects Ilsa Mar 2014 #27

According to the article it was based on a school club doing what other clubs did The Straight Story Mar 2014 #29

How many school clubs put plastic replicas of body parts in the lunchroom at noontime? jmowreader Mar 2014 #39

If the school let them have a club than the rules should be the same: The Straight Story Mar 2014 #44

Does the First Amendment give you the right to fuck up someone's lunch? jmowreader Mar 2014 #46

Cafeterias are huge places with four walls and no one who will be "fucked up" pnwmom Mar 2014 #53

Less than 1200 enrollment, I doubt the cafeteria is huge. mbperrin Mar 2014 #134

It would be easy to avoid a display in the room you describe if the tables were on the opposite pnwmom Mar 2014 #139

This is Texas. It is against the law to teach anything other than mbperrin Mar 2014 #238

You've got to be kidding. Even in an abstinence class, they teach pnwmom Mar 2014 #239

Well, here's the link from this fall, this current school year. mbperrin Mar 2014 #250

Reading that was a waste of time. Your article doesn't say anything about what is taught pnwmom Mar 2014 #254

And now, I wish you a good evening. mbperrin Mar 2014 #251

"Abstinence-only" has nothing to do with banning pictures of fetuses. pnwmom Mar 2014 #255

How would it mess up someone's lunch? The Straight Story Mar 2014 #136

These girls do NOT want to do what everyone else does. mbperrin Mar 2014 #132

These are 14 - 18 year old "children" who have almost certainly seen picture of fetuses before. pnwmom Mar 2014 #151

If it is a replica of an embryo or fetus, there is nothing disgusting about it. Chemisse Mar 2014 #116

I watched the whole video. There were just the standard photos of fetuses at various pnwmom Mar 2014 #152

Why didn't I think of that back in high school?!?!! hatrack Mar 2014 #253

So should the "gun club" be allowed to bring in demonstrations of their stuff? madinmaryland Mar 2014 #57

So guns = babies? Or do we just like to silence dissenting views? (nt) The Straight Story Mar 2014 #60

So fetuses = babies? Telling. nt uppityperson Mar 2014 #62

+1 !! lunasun Mar 2014 #133

This isn't about babies. Ilsa Mar 2014 #67

It is about a school sanctioned club having the same rights other clubs have The Straight Story Mar 2014 #73

Yes, they get to promote their agenda no matter Ilsa Mar 2014 #78

It's political propaganda. So are you anti-choice then? cui bono Mar 2014 #157

It is not about that issue The Straight Story Mar 2014 #183

It is absolutely about this issue. It's an anti-choice club, which by definition has a political cui bono Mar 2014 #191

So now folks who are not pro-choice equal arayan nation? The Straight Story Mar 2014 #198

That's not what I said. Incorrect conclusion. cui bono Mar 2014 #204

So, in your view, it has to be religious based? The Straight Story Mar 2014 #205

Even if it's not religious based, though in all probability it is but we don't know that for a fact, cui bono Mar 2014 #207

So don't discuss political issues in a school? The Straight Story Mar 2014 #209

I don't think so. There are other places for that. cui bono Mar 2014 #216

Finally, someone who's being honest. This isn't really about adults thinking images pnwmom Mar 2014 #156

There is no silencing of dissent. The issue is you have adults (18) who are finishing up madinmaryland Mar 2014 #99

What on earth is "nasty" about images of normal fetuses? pnwmom Mar 2014 #163

Why is the pro-life club like the gun club? I don't get the connection at all. pnwmom Mar 2014 #154

Anti-capital punishment club Brainstormy Mar 2014 #228

Funny that there isn't, though. kcr Mar 2014 #28

The people in the anti-abortion club say other groups were allowed to set up displays jmowreader Mar 2014 #141

Yep. I noticed there wasn't any mention of the other groups specifically kcr Mar 2014 #166

I assume you're not really comparing a fetus to a pile of human waste, are you? nt pnwmom Mar 2014 #26

No, I'm comparing biology lessons. Ilsa Mar 2014 #32

When I was at school, our Biology teacher knitted a model of the alimentary canal... LeftishBrit Mar 2014 #68

LOL. That's funny. I wonder if it was Ilsa Mar 2014 #70

Why are condoms a different matter? enlightenment Mar 2014 #20

How are condoms a different matter? This type display, with "blown up images" is meant to not only uppityperson Mar 2014 #52

She is doing this to propagandize, not to educate. cui bono Mar 2014 #153

The same people who push this are also against birth control. HERVEPA Mar 2014 #9

But there is nothing religious here. CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2014 #11

Pro life, California Peggy. How is that better than a stand against birth control? kcr Mar 2014 #21

If you think there is nothing religious here Peggy, you are extremely naive. HERVEPA Mar 2014 #66

Really? Pressing the pro-life agenda on them while they're eating? kcr Mar 2014 #10

Maybe you can, but you're not the one with the display. CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2014 #12

What does that have to do with anything? kcr Mar 2014 #16

so you're anti-choice then? cui bono Mar 2014 #158

Did I say that? No, I didn't. I am very pro-choice. n/t CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2014 #161

Well you are defending anti-choice propaganda in schools. cui bono Mar 2014 #162

Can you really not distinguish between those two things? Do I have to quote Voltaire at you? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #241

What two things? n/t cui bono Mar 2014 #244

Supporting something, and supporting the right to advocate for it. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #262

But we're talking about students at a public school. cui bono Mar 2014 #264

Plenty of schools have lunch room displays The Straight Story Mar 2014 #14

So? kcr Mar 2014 #17

According to the article: The Straight Story Mar 2014 #18

Yes, I do. kcr Mar 2014 #19

Displaying a fetus isn't the same thing as proselytizing an agenda. pnwmom Mar 2014 #30

Are more and more people nowadays forgetting what context is? kcr Mar 2014 #35

No. But part of the context is that in the US, we have a right to free speech. pnwmom Mar 2014 #164

Not in our public schools kcr Mar 2014 #167

Why not? What do you have against Planned Parenthood? pnwmom Mar 2014 #170

What does Planned Parenthood have to do with it? kcr Mar 2014 #172

Oh I get it. You responded to a post you didn't bother to read. pnwmom Mar 2014 #175

I read your posts, so I don't know what you're talking about. kcr Mar 2014 #176

This is what I said: pnwmom Mar 2014 #180

And that is beyond ridiculous kcr Mar 2014 #182

The school allows other groups and individuals to set up tables. pnwmom Mar 2014 #187

I don't give a flying fig what the ACLU thinks about it. kcr Mar 2014 #188

So the Aryan Nation should be able to set up a table at lunch time as well? cui bono Mar 2014 #173

And how about the context of having this in your face at meal time. Ilsa Mar 2014 #40

Cafeterias are large, noisy places with four walls. I don't think it needs to be in anyone's face. pnwmom Mar 2014 #42

Not all cafeterias are the same maddezmom Mar 2014 #97

My kids' elementary school had 400 students and 2 sittings. pnwmom Mar 2014 #149

"blown-up images of fetuses" is proselytizing an agenda. uppityperson Mar 2014 #54

Yes it is. Texasgal Mar 2014 #61

The images look like they were ripped from the pages of the book pnwmom Mar 2014 #165

It's an anti-choice club as indicated by their chosen club name. cui bono Mar 2014 #159

This is just another science exhibit? Pure Bullshit! HERVEPA Mar 2014 #79

Have you seen the exhibit? Here is a video that shows it The Straight Story Mar 2014 #87

I volunteer for Planned parenthood. I know this bullshit. Sell it somewhere else. HERVEPA Mar 2014 #93

After a quick look, lies. "Week 4, the baby's heart has a steady beat"? BS. uppityperson Mar 2014 #96

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #267

Looked at the video. Crunchy Frog Mar 2014 #144

"Consequences of sexual activity" REP Mar 2014 #31

I was thinking it might actually promote the use of birth control. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #34

Don't you think that there is a better way to "promote the use of birth control"? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #215

Sure. But lots of things are legal (or should be) that aren't optimal. pnwmom Mar 2014 #218

What this "group" is doing is nowhere near optimal blueamy66 Mar 2014 #230

What is so bad about the "blown up images"? I showed the same basic pictures, pnwmom Mar 2014 #231

Okay, if the students have seen them already, why show them again? In the cafeteria? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #233

We still have freedom of speech in this country, last time I checked. pnwmom Mar 2014 #235

I don't believe that all freedoms translate into our public school system. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #236

Well, people going to Catholic school know that they don't have the same rights. pnwmom Mar 2014 #237

BUT, can't lockers be searched? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #242

Aren't we supposed to be progressives here? Not Authoritarian Central? pnwmom Mar 2014 #246

Let's pretend there is a White Power club. Should they be allowed to have displays in the cafeteria? uppityperson Mar 2014 #252

There should be exceptions for hate material, just as there are for adults in the workplace. pnwmom Mar 2014 #256

Ah, so you subjectively decide it is hate speech and so it is ok to deny them the right to free uppityperson Mar 2014 #259

Yes it does, but a 6 week embryo, done to scale, is not impressive. Warpy Mar 2014 #94

True but a loaded sentence.... alp227 Mar 2014 #265

My college roommate didn't like it when I left my fetal pig undeterred Mar 2014 #5

Real-life-sized blastocysts? Ilsa Mar 2014 #6

I don't want to see pix of a human fetus while I'm eating. KittyWampus Mar 2014 #22

Neither do I, and I'm a nurse. Ilsa Mar 2014 #23

What is disgusting about how a fetus looks? n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #33

When I see fetuses, I have to also think about menstruation, Ilsa Mar 2014 #36

Maybe that's the problem. You're reading much more into it than the typical middle school student. pnwmom Mar 2014 #41

Maybe teens need to just have lunch with their Ilsa Mar 2014 #43

That's what almost all the teens will do. Cafeterias are huge spaces. pnwmom Mar 2014 #45

How do you know they can "easily avoid" it? Ilsa Mar 2014 #51

A teacher who would pressure them about this should face discipline, pnwmom Mar 2014 #56

I'm surprised you don't see this for what it is. Ilsa Mar 2014 #65

The answer to unpopular free speech is more free speech, not less of it. pnwmom Mar 2014 #72

And the answer to a polite society is to give people safe spaces where they aren't confronted KittyWampus Mar 2014 #74

I don't think fetuses are disgusting, as some people here have said. Is that what you think, too? pnwmom Mar 2014 #76

Good for you. Some of us do not want to be confronted with them while eating. GET IT? KittyWampus Mar 2014 #86

Then sit somewhere else. Cafeterias are big places. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #89

Some of those pictures were of dead fetuses. Crunchy Frog Mar 2014 #147

You mean "blown-up images of fetuses", not just something like a fetus. uppityperson Mar 2014 #85

Whatever that means. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #90

It means enlarged photos of fetuses and embryos. uppityperson Mar 2014 #98

I can speak as a former ten year old who first saw a human fetus in a jar pnwmom Mar 2014 #37

Yes, in a SCIENCE MUSEUM. mbperrin Mar 2014 #135

The OP says the girl was 17. Do you really think, based on your experience with adolescents, pnwmom Mar 2014 #137

Kids at that school are 14-18. Are you saying the person who made the display wasn't traumatized so uppityperson Mar 2014 #143

In my husband's 8th grade class of 30, there were 4 pregnancies. I think that by the time pnwmom Mar 2014 #145

Having worked a lot in reproductive health, including managing a Family Planning clinic, I agree uppityperson Mar 2014 #192

+1000. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #222

She needs to keep her goddamn religion out of school. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #38

No, she needs to be allowed the same access as every other group. 1awake Mar 2014 #47

I bet the ACLU would agree. That's why they're not always popular. pnwmom Mar 2014 #59

Yes, It took me some time years ago to realize that. nt 1awake Mar 2014 #102

You're not the supreme ruler. You don't get to end stories here. HERVEPA Mar 2014 #232

Yes, I am. nt 1awake Mar 2014 #240

"blown-up images of fetuses and real- life sized fetus models". This is what I have an issue with uppityperson Mar 2014 #48

One of the anti-choicers' favorite ploys Mariana Mar 2014 #104

Oooo, she has that doll next @ beginning, opposite the 1 week dot embryo uppityperson Mar 2014 #109

Put the OP told us up thread that this was scientifically accurate MattBaggins Mar 2014 #212

can i bring in the corpse of my wife who died @25 years ago dembotoz Mar 2014 #49

What other free speech should the government get to suppress? joeglow3 Mar 2014 #223

As an author I read recently put it on bringing up controversial topics in inappropriate settings : Brigid Mar 2014 #50

Exactly. Let them eat without having to think about contracepton. nt Ilsa Mar 2014 #55

Because partents use their children like cannon fodder in a religous war. nt pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #150

Agreed! Can I get an amen for that? justhanginon Mar 2014 #58

Maybe another student should set up a table displaying condoms and other forms of B.C. pnwmom Mar 2014 #63

What about those "blown-up images of fetuses"? uppityperson Mar 2014 #64

Supporting free speech means supporting the right to express unpopular opinions. pnwmom Mar 2014 #71

People should be allowed spaces without triggers staring them in the face. KittyWampus Mar 2014 #77

If they accidentally see a fetus, they can turn their faces away. As a former child who once pnwmom Mar 2014 #81

This club can find other graphics to advertise their existence. And you've already been told KittyWampus Mar 2014 #84

If you don't want to look at a fetus while you're eating, then take a seat away from the table. pnwmom Mar 2014 #88

Hell no MattBaggins Mar 2014 #213

The girl was at the table the school allowed her, until the school reacted to complaints. pnwmom Mar 2014 #224

Then you are ok with blown up graphic images of dead kids via the anti-war club. uppityperson Mar 2014 #83

No, I'm talking generic high school cafeteria. They're all large spaces with four walls. pnwmom Mar 2014 #91

Enlarged graphic photos of Abu Ghraib and blown up kids are ok for cafeteria viewing. uppityperson Mar 2014 #100

I came back to this thread to post the exact same thing. Would an anti-war club KittyWampus Mar 2014 #95

I would object to blown-up images of a bloody aborted fetus in the cafeteria. pnwmom Mar 2014 #101

"I think a high school anti-war club should be able to display whatever it wants to." uppityperson Mar 2014 #103

I changed my mind when I thought about it more. I'll revise. Thanks. pnwmom Mar 2014 #108

I think I would take my lunch outside... yuiyoshida Mar 2014 #69

This is an before/after-school activity...not a lunch-time feature. Tikki Mar 2014 #75

can the gardening club put up a compost display? magical thyme Mar 2014 #80

I would have absolutely no problem with blown up images or plastic replicas of compost. pnwmom Mar 2014 #82

Why do they even have a pro life club in high school any way? flying rabbit Mar 2014 #92

As long as their table includes... TeeYiYi Mar 2014 #105

People.. this board included.. are only interested in free speech when its theirs 1awake Mar 2014 #106

If the info they gave was accurate, not lies like "Week 4, the baby's heart has a steady beat" uppityperson Mar 2014 #110

Do we know this girl was pushing lies, or just assuming that? n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #112

I copied it from what was written on her display. No assumption. uppityperson Mar 2014 #114

Then someone should set up another table with the correct information. pnwmom Mar 2014 #120

And then they could set up even more information! And then more tables... kcr Mar 2014 #130

Of course it is. What do you think free speech means? Only the cool kids get a table? n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #219

No. In a public school free speech is not about allowing propaganda that is a bunch of lies cui bono Mar 2014 #189

What is wrong with the images that people here are so upset about? pnwmom Mar 2014 #220

No free speech is not about letting kids pass off inaccurate MattBaggins Mar 2014 #214

I didn't see anything in the article about inaccurate information. Did you? n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #221

Ok, so have the principal tell her she is off by a week and change the wording The Straight Story Mar 2014 #117

I do not have access to where the images came from, nor could I clearly see uppityperson Mar 2014 #121

The heart forms at 5 weeks. And were they showing aborted fetuses? The Straight Story Mar 2014 #125

Week 5 "The brain, spinal cord, and heart begin to develop." There's no way it could beat at 4 weeks uppityperson Mar 2014 #129

To be fair Crunchy Frog Mar 2014 #184

I didn't look that closely at them all, but giving inaccurate false "info" is wrong. uppityperson Mar 2014 #193

I can't help but wonder xfundy Mar 2014 #111

I have trouble seeing what the fuss is about, unless it's that people feel that this threatens pnwmom Mar 2014 #113

Did you look at the display? What is so disturbing about promoting lies to teens about reproduction uppityperson Mar 2014 #115

Why do you think I'm trying to limit YOUR freedom of speech? Does disagreeing with you pnwmom Mar 2014 #119

"So if you object to the content of her speech -- her anti-abortion views -- then you are objecting uppityperson Mar 2014 #122

You are objecting to her table being there because you're objecting to what she's saying. pnwmom Mar 2014 #124

She should be able to show this! Chemisse Mar 2014 #118

Except the written stuff by the embryonic/fetal display gives incorrect and misleading information. uppityperson Mar 2014 #123

What the hell? llmart Mar 2014 #126

And some good DU folks think there is an infinite amount Ilsa Mar 2014 #128

The pix of fetus-dollies I've seen are not that true-to-life for the first 4 months.... Hekate Mar 2014 #127

Couldn't they do both? I'm all for more birth control instruction/availability in the schools. pnwmom Mar 2014 #138

PP makes the RW froth at the mouth because tho less than 5% of what they do ... Hekate Mar 2014 #208

Free speech is curtailed in a school for good reasons: lindysalsagal Mar 2014 #131

Next they'll put up a factual display of creationism -nt pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #160

Athiests against abortion joeglow3 Mar 2014 #226

Then the anti-war group should be allowed to show bloody bodies, dead children and maybe pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #140

What is it you think they are showing? The Straight Story Mar 2014 #142

lol - science? Right because we know the pro-life groups are pro-science, besides what do you pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #146

Again, what do you think the pics show that they are displaying? (nt) The Straight Story Mar 2014 #148

in the interest of science - i should be allowed to display amputations from cluster munitions... pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #155

These aren't photos of fetuses that were dismembered in abortions. pnwmom Mar 2014 #178

If it's okay to show pictures of war torn bodies, then you would have to approve pictures pnwmom Mar 2014 #174

Yes, of course, I would approve pictures of bloody fetuses, that's exactly where your logic goes pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #197

No, the equivalent to THAT would be if the girl were trying to show pictures of pnwmom Mar 2014 #168

The best way to stop this shit dead in its tracks... pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #169

The pictures of the fetuses are non-violent. I think the best way to be equitable pnwmom Mar 2014 #171

You can just show the photos of those killed & injure by pro-lifers, nothing violent about that and pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #179

Did you watch the video? If anything, they looked too Disney. Not like dead fetuses. pnwmom Mar 2014 #185

Oh - so groups should pass a commitee approval for only cute posters? pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #190

No. I was agreeing with you about having posters of the victims of anti-abortion zealots. pnwmom Mar 2014 #227

Seriously. What the fuck is up with people defending this anti-choice political propaganda cui bono Mar 2014 #177

The new democrats... pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #195

It's true. I'm starting to not even recognize this board anymore. n/t Crunchy Frog Mar 2014 #196

Great. that's the fifth new table in the cafeteria Ilsa Mar 2014 #211

I can't quite tell from the article if she was banned from having any table at all, petronius Mar 2014 #181

Ummmm The Straight Story Mar 2014 #186

How the school defines 'gory' and/or 'shock-content' doesn't really affect my petronius Mar 2014 #199

Threatens establishment clause of bill of rights. Cafeteria is not an optional place - pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #194

I suspect that would apply to school-sponsored religious activities, but all petronius Mar 2014 #200

but by that logic, they could hang prayers all over cafeteria and have a group grace each lunch.... pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #201

Isn't that what the Equal Access Act is all about? petronius Mar 2014 #202

not during normal school hours while involving the entire student population pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #203

I do think you're mistaken, and it's not about "leading the cafeteria in grace" or doing things petronius Mar 2014 #206

If that's the case then that's unfortunate kcr Mar 2014 #210

yikes, i did not think cafeteria time counted strictly as non-instructional time since students pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #266

I watched the whole video. There was no shock-content material, no pictures pnwmom Mar 2014 #225

With inaccurate information by the embryos/fetuses. eom uppityperson Mar 2014 #243

A perfect teachable moment for the school. Too bad they blew it. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #245

Rather than "educate" at lunch, let the Health or whatever teacher give accurate info in class uppityperson Mar 2014 #247

Unless you're one of those progressives who think free speech is only for some people, pnwmom Mar 2014 #248

There are rules in schools that go beyond the outside world. Are you saying limiting displays in uppityperson Mar 2014 #249

I am saying that when the Supreme Court ruled that students don't have pnwmom Mar 2014 #257

The Supreme Court said it is ok to beat students and break bones? what? uppityperson Mar 2014 #258

There was a 9 year old Florida boy who sued after they accidentally broke his arm pnwmom Mar 2014 #260

Huh, I'd like to see more on that. maybe later will google, thanks. uppityperson Mar 2014 #261

bookmarks thread for Olive Garden/pitbull/breastfeeding status nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #217

I read the subject line and wondered, 'Why are they serving fetuses for lunch?' valerief Mar 2014 #229

They're not thinking BIG enuff! TheSarcastinator Mar 2014 #234

So a "pro-life" club wanted to set up a display in the cafe? Lunacee_2013 Mar 2014 #263