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Divernan

(15,480 posts)

88. Big difference in friendliness between US & Germany/Ireland/Scotland/England/France

Mon Mar 17, 2014, 02:42 PM

Mar 2014

For decades I have gone to live performances of theater, ballet, opera & symphonies, both abroad and here in the USA. I get the best seats I can afford, so I'm sitting around people who definitely aren't poor. In the US, when I have season tickets, I typically sit around the same group of people for years. I often attend as a single, where most of the others around me are part of a couple. In London, Berlin, Edinburgh, Dublin, Paris, etc., people in neighboring seats are friendly, to the point that we have a drink together at intermissions and linger a while afterwards to discuss the performances.

Here in the states? Hah! Give someone a warm smile and the best you'll get is a frigid nod and then they pointedly avoid eye contact. The attitude seems to be an "Why on earth would I want to talk to a stranger!" I've talked to a few other well-traveled Americans and they agreed that they also have noticed this difference. Perhaps one cause is that so many Americans are very provincial and have not traveled to or experienced other cultures and countries, and are afraid of anything different than what they're used to, including new people.

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Americans are the loneliest, most isolated people [View all] Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 OP

Geography has more of an effect on the culture than we might presume. randome Mar 2014 #1

How so? Would traveling outside of the country help us change the isolation lifestyle? nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #2

It would have a subtle effect, I would think. randome Mar 2014 #3

True. Maybe we would notice the radical difference. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #4

What are the stats on Canada? They live more like Europoeans. SleeplessinSoCal Mar 2014 #32

Don't know. But Canada is made up of larger 'states'. randome Mar 2014 #47

Canada's entire population doesn't even reach California's 38 million. SleeplessinSoCal Mar 2014 #142

I saw a movie by Michael Moore Beringia Mar 2014 #57

I think that was Bowling for Columbine. roody Mar 2014 #169

well the geography of the center hfojvt Mar 2014 #9

If you live in Germany, you immediately notice that the system is completely different. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #12

Really? hfojvt Mar 2014 #15

Even here on DU, when we hear someone is broke or in need of money, we basically say... randome Mar 2014 #17

I'm a recent member from over Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2014 #64

welcome to du--quite an alphabet soup you have!! I think the closest thing we have to what niyad Mar 2014 #213

Well I grew up in Montana zeemike Mar 2014 #26

I think things have changed here dramatically. :( nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #85

Tell me about it notadmblnd Mar 2014 #93

I don't think Montana has an overwhelming effect. randome Mar 2014 #14

the rest of the country hfojvt Mar 2014 #19

Good stats. randome Mar 2014 #20

well some did hfojvt Mar 2014 #23

Yes, thousands of influences, the country's ideology, its laws, who has the most power, etc. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #42

I think it works both ways though. wickerwoman Mar 2014 #63

Decline of religion, marriage, women's rights, etc. randome Mar 2014 #76

My grandpa was born in northern Spain, where villages were isolated from other villages Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #117

I think this is the core difference. Having worked in Europe, one is certainly exposed to RKP5637 Mar 2014 #86

That matters less than population density Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #150

Don't we have Canada.... llmart Mar 2014 #154

Capitalism needs to detach workers from their support networks. tblue37 Mar 2014 #206

+1. n/t Laelth Mar 2014 #233

Noam Chomsky on this: woo me with science Mar 2014 #5

SO true! Chomsky is spot on. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #6

+10000 dotymed Mar 2014 #48

Agree with Chomsky--this situation has been created & promoted marions ghost Mar 2014 #98

And the shows aren't much better than Ow, My Balls! nt valerief Mar 2014 #208

Mobile devices have usurped the television for pushing advertising. People are glued to their japple Mar 2014 #146

I've noticed this too. The less and less one does something, the less the habit of it... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #226

I haven't watched TV in several decades, and I am neither lonely nor isolated. Zorra Mar 2014 #168

As with so many things, Chomsky's absolutely right about this. n/t Raksha Mar 2014 #229

There's a definite lack of real, personal contact here. sinkingfeeling Mar 2014 #7

Yup there are superficial & sporadic contacts, but few "for-life, give-your-all" friendships, family Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #8

Churches might work against society in your worldview.. MicaelS Mar 2014 #18

Did I say churches should be prohibited? I merely said they've turned right wing and quite fascist Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #133

Not all churches Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2014 #34

Big difference in friendliness between US & Germany/Ireland/Scotland/England/France Divernan Mar 2014 #88

Yes, I went by myself to a concert at Edvard Grieg's home in Bergen, Norway Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2014 #108

Every day the same message: We are all in this alone. nt Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #10

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss! Enemies all around us, you have only yourself to handle it, you Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #11

Chillingly insightful. nt Union Scribe Mar 2014 #13

While the article contains many valid points, I think it's important to remember that Sheldon Cooper Mar 2014 #16

Yep. People have "alone time" all over the world. But isolation (what we have here) is not Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #24

Lol Shankapotomus Mar 2014 #141

I enjoy my solitude, but... meaculpa2011 Mar 2014 #21

Isolation doesn't always equate with loneliness BlueSky3 Mar 2014 #31

Perhaps only someone who has lived elsewhere would notice the isolation in the U.S. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #45

A "good" lifestyle? BlueSky3 Mar 2014 #51

The Japanese are known for their "introversion" yet have very close friends and family, neighbors Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #52

There are plenty of isolated individuals here in Japan Art_from_Ark Mar 2014 #152

There have always been isolated people, just as there has always been cancer. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #164

Unfortunately, there is decreasing reverence for the elderly in Japan Art_from_Ark Mar 2014 #167

The greater the influence of capitalism, the less reverence for the elderly. I'd hate to think they Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #171

There is another growing social phenomenon in Japan Art_from_Ark Mar 2014 #174

So they're trailing behind us, but are definitely there. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #175

That's basically what they say here in Japan Art_from_Ark Mar 2014 #177

Unrelated, but here's a very brief explanation of differences between American and Japanese Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #179

Yeah, those differences can make it very frustrating Art_from_Ark Mar 2014 #185

I'd seen a hugely long documentary on the respect required for communicating in Japan Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #191

Maybe we do Art_from_Ark Mar 2014 #193

My brother, who now lives in Spain (but was raised here), traveled to Japan for business Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #202

Influenced by us, perhaps? Cal33 Mar 2014 #231

I agree. Too much discourse and "conventional wisdom" is framed by extroverts Populist_Prole Mar 2014 #112

This...is so true! pipi_k Mar 2014 #131

I'm with you. Blue_In_AK Mar 2014 #132

I spent seven years in a town that is widely deemed "a good place to raise kids" Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2014 #109

I've noticed that many lonely people cannot stand their own company Skittles Mar 2014 #151

I have driven cross country alone... meaculpa2011 Mar 2014 #197

fascinating article justabob Mar 2014 #22

Agree with you, Sarah. As Americans, we are expected to ALWAYS be ON. closeupready Mar 2014 #25

Exactly. Always expected to do things as 1 isolated, helpless unit. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #56

Yes. Spot on article. Skidmore Mar 2014 #27

Like in "The Killing Fields" - remember that part where closeupready Mar 2014 #36

Yes, in this case we've substituted capitalism for family, neighbors, of-the-heart friendships, etc. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #61

Isolating them emotionally, you mean? nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #38

Yes. If you are removed from those who could support you, Skidmore Mar 2014 #49

Well, in much of Europe (where there are better govt social support systems), people also have Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #54

"However, it makes a workforce of individuals that can be treated like widgets" woo me with science Mar 2014 #198

Americans are also more distrustful and more fearful. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2014 #28

Wow. I never get lonely or feel isolated. No wonder my multiple personalities Zorra Mar 2014 #29

You totally made my day! JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #33

Awesome! Zorra Mar 2014 #35

LOL SunSeeker Mar 2014 #209

Corporate dislocation and suburbanization ErikJ Mar 2014 #30

Well said. YoungDemCA Mar 2014 #216

Live alone yet don't feel lonely or isolated. Since I stopped driving, though, feel more connected. pinto Mar 2014 #37

Yes, I was happier when I didn't have to drive Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2014 #41

This article is from 2001, but it still rings true Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2014 #39

What a great article and post. Thank you. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #50

Excellent. woo me with science Mar 2014 #101

Its pretty much true... yuiyoshida Mar 2014 #40

Many Americans are descended from immigrants who came by themselves or with 1 or 2 others FarCenter Mar 2014 #43

DU rec n/t Catherina Mar 2014 #44

Just because one lives alone... Helen Borg Mar 2014 #46

If that's true, why is "solitary" a punishment in jail? Why is it that putting people by themselves jtuck004 Mar 2014 #58

we all need to be around people SOME Celebration Mar 2014 #147

It depends. If they are introverts because they are happy with the solitude, proud of jtuck004 Mar 2014 #156

anything taking to an extreme can be a pathology Celebration Mar 2014 #199

I agree with you. I've noticed that a few here have said they prefer to be alone, despite the fact Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #205

Some are. :) nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #203

"Solitary" is not just lack of contact with other people. Helen Borg Mar 2014 #219

Perhaps I should have bolded... jtuck004 Mar 2014 #224

The article merely discusses the person found dead to make the point of the rest of the Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #225

Worlds greatest discoverers and scientists ErikJ Mar 2014 #65

But it was a mission, which is a temporary period of time, and they went elsewhere to do this Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #212

K and R n/t JimDandy Mar 2014 #53

I think the only thing worse than forced isolation Orrex Mar 2014 #55

Socialization in places where people are close, tight and warm, is not forced. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #59

I'm not sure that I agree with the premise, to be honest Orrex Mar 2014 #69

I wasn't born here, so I'm commenting on what I noticed and added this article. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #70

So it's simply your own witnessing based on anecdote? Orrex Mar 2014 #72

No. Actually I performed a 25-year study. LOL! omg. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #87

Yeah, that's about what I figured. Orrex Mar 2014 #90

you are a skilled straw-man fabricator. that's a compliment. high paying job in today's world. ;^p Adam051188 Mar 2014 #113

"the only thing worse than being alone is wishing you were" Skittles Mar 2014 #182

I kinda put myself into forced isolation. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #60

The wealthier we are AgingAmerican Mar 2014 #62

Very interesting observation. Do you think it's because of the physical separation of homes? Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #67

When I lived in a poor neighborhood AgingAmerican Mar 2014 #74

You grew up in a real neighborhood. What a pleasure. Kids nowadays don't go play outside. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #75

My parents couldn't keep us in the house AgingAmerican Mar 2014 #80

LOL! I also grew up "outside." We went inside to eat, shower, sleep, do homework or if we were in Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #83

The cheaper the energy, the less we need other people The2ndWheel Mar 2014 #81

A consequence of progress in general, hm? A valid point, too. randome Mar 2014 #92

I have this wonderful friend who just turned 94. toby jo Mar 2014 #66

Good point (about TV). I wonder why we Americans were so willing to isolate ourselves for it? Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #68

tv is addictive and we are raised on it. magical thyme Mar 2014 #99

When my husband and I got home from work in Spain... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #115

I can't speak to working in Spain, but here in the U.S. magical thyme Mar 2014 #126

I think you're right. Work here in the U.S. is a hostile environment that leads to exhaustion and Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #129

Anyone ever read Walden n/t sailfla Mar 2014 #71

Yup, where he decided to live 2 years out in the wild alone? Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #77

My son's experience living for a year in 2 very remote, tiny Indonesian villages. Divernan Mar 2014 #73

Not surprised at all, Americans are bred to be competitive and combative, it's what RKP5637 Mar 2014 #78

I agree they're raised that way. I'd be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on this. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #79

No, just my ramblings on DU. Part of my background is in the social sciences and out of RKP5637 Mar 2014 #107

Ok. I also find that in other countries there are introverts (for ex., the Japanese) but they have Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #110

This might not be the best word, but I've heard some describe American behavior as RKP5637 Mar 2014 #124

What worries me is that Americans might not even have real cliques? Just the illusions of cliques? Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #127

And especially in older age. There are IMO doubtless millions of heartbreaking stories that RKP5637 Mar 2014 #135

It's horrifying. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #137

Agree--competition is definitely rewarded & sociopaths take full advantage marions ghost Mar 2014 #94

"But often in the past I found myself investing in friends that were really just competitors." Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #136

With ya marions ghost Mar 2014 #157

I think MSM fear mongering has played a role in people isolating themselves. notadmblnd Mar 2014 #82

That's such a good point. I hadn't thought of how the MSM instills fear which leads to further Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #84

Yup - everything is to be feared. Plus, the self-defense industry chrisa Mar 2014 #95

Except then all you get is to share the problems... marions ghost Mar 2014 #97

Fear-mongering, yes! Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2014 #119

Rugged individualism! moondust Mar 2014 #89

Do you think the more successful a country is, the more broken down its social ties? Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #111

I don't know about "country." moondust Mar 2014 #144

Good post. YoungDemCA Mar 2014 #217

Absolutely. If we all got together, we could write the definitive book on why our society is broken Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #222

Too true. It breaks down society. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #221

There's more to it than that. nt meaculpa2011 Mar 2014 #214

I guess I'm the oddball. I like my life the way it is. riderinthestorm Mar 2014 #91

No you don't. You think you do, but that's the real tragedy. Orrex Mar 2014 #103

The question about "confidants" seems relevant marions ghost Mar 2014 #114

I have no confidante. I write in my journal about hopes, fears, dreams. riderinthestorm Mar 2014 #161

Yup, when we die, only we die for ourselves. However, having a confidant used to be a vital part Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #163

I don't think of it as "others having answers" marions ghost Mar 2014 #200

Once I realize how sad and lonely I am...what is the next step? Rex Mar 2014 #121

I can enjoy solitude for days at a time, but eventually it depresses me Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2014 #122

Exactly. Here's a good article about isolation and what it does... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #165

That's the way I read it. Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #158

Some of us just are not very social LostOne4Ever Mar 2014 #96

Not the same as being "social" necessarily marions ghost Mar 2014 #100

What I mean - in the countries I lived in, even introverts had tight relationships with family Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #104

exactly right geretogo Mar 2014 #102

I'd be very interested in hearing more of your observations. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #166

observations geretogo Mar 2014 #218

Thank you for taking the time to type this out. I feel exactly the same way. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #220

Oddly, the article you link is about Facebook and loneliness and does not cite Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #105

It includes Facebook in the article and title, but isn't exclusively an analysis of Facebook Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #106

No, the title is 'Is Facebook Making Us Lonley'. No nation is compared to another Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #116

Did you read only the title? Or did you read the entire article's assertion as to isolation in the Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #118

It's about modern society, it is for a US audience Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #138

Within all societies are extroverts, introverts, loneliness and happiness, but all societies are Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #140

Defend against? This is not combat, kid. I will not combat you. Sorry. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #211

You apparently have not read through the threads here. You should. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #223

Suicide is what Japanese people do instead of murder Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2014 #125

I feel so guilty about being happy. deaniac21 Mar 2014 #120

Only about that? How about feeling guilty about not having read the article? :) nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #123

I think many Americans think if a stranger starts talking to them, that raccoon Mar 2014 #128

Yes, and on the other hand, they think if they say "hi" to someone daily, that's a true friend, Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #130

I live in Ecuador. Puglover Mar 2014 #134

I have thought about moving out of America, if I can ever get enough money shenmue Mar 2014 #143

I'm sorry you are lonely. Puglover Mar 2014 #145

Thank you. shenmue Mar 2014 #148

I'm so sorry. Maybe it helps to hear that this is a nationwide problem nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #178

I am in the same boat as you. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #186

K&R Solly Mack Mar 2014 #139

When you are an introvert in a society that expects you to be an extrovert, it's tough. alarimer Mar 2014 #149

Pretty much this Fumesucker Mar 2014 #155

There's a difference between introversion and social isolation. Look at the Japanese... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #162

But the thing is, I pretty much hate my fellow Americans. alarimer Mar 2014 #187

Well, maybe it's the system of life here that you detest, and the way people are affected nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #190

Fumesucker and Alarimar, you are right. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2014 #230

This is a well commented op, and a needed one. fleabiscuit Mar 2014 #153

I agree. The greater the insecurity, the higher the isolation. And may I add: Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #160

No, I think you make a good point here YoungDemCA Mar 2014 #215

And here I thought it was just me . . . . . n/t Dem_in_Nebr. Mar 2014 #159

Keep this in mind when you are discussing the best ways... Shandris Mar 2014 #170

I agree with you. The whole country is hurting. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #172

Thanks for this thread...! WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #173

I'm so sorry. Perhaps there's something we can do. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #176

Oh, I know it sounds sad so let me explain (of course, you may still be sad for me :) WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #188

Thank you for explaining. It's definitely a societal problem. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #189

Another thing: being an outlier (GLBT for example) is impossible in many "close" communities riderinthestorm Mar 2014 #180

Yes, but I've heard that being an outlier can create a closely-knit group? Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #181

If you have close friends, you can organize Dirty Socialist Mar 2014 #183

That's exactly the #1 thing the corporatists don't want us to do - organize nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #192

I know this is true, but I absolutely roody Mar 2014 #184

It depends on the people I'm around. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2014 #194

K and R. Interesting ideas. LuckyLib Mar 2014 #195

The outsourcing of manufacturing has contributed greatly to this isolation. Enthusiast Mar 2014 #196

Thanks for the awesome post. Job loss does destroy extended families, friends, neighborhoods, Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #201

I think some "massive overhaul" or other is bound to happen -- rather sooner Cal33 Mar 2014 #207

Yes. I think too many of us became like cattle, just moving forward on to the slaughter - Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #210

Past Histories and Experience 4Q2u2 Mar 2014 #204

Recommended. H2O Man Mar 2014 #227

Thank you for posting this. Raksha Mar 2014 #228

k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t Laelth Mar 2014 #232