General Discussion

Ms. Toad

(38,765 posts)

53. Thre is a difference between acknowledging the real losses

Tue Mar 18, 2014, 08:53 AM

Mar 2014

associated with many adoptions (of whatever nature) and describing adoptees (generally) as being "ripped from the breast of their mothers when they were just infants," and "told their whole lives that the woman who gave life to them simply handed them off, and happily moved on with her life." That is imagery chosen to inflame and blame (repeatedly - it is not the first time it has shown up on DU) and is an oversimplification of what is an excruciating decision for many women who choose not to abort, but who find themselves pregnant and not yet in a place where being a mother is a possibility.

It would be the best of all possible worlds if every pregnancy ended with a beloved child in the arms of its birth parents. But in an imperfect world, unwanted pregnancies are still a reality - and one of the imperfect solutions is adoption. Everything imperfect is just that - imperfect. But generically demonizing the mother (or the system which allows adoption) makes it worse.

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Another adoptee commits suicide: Fashion designer L'Wren Scott,girlfriend of Mick Jagger, found dea [View all] me b zola Mar 2014 OP

Charlotte Dawson~also an adoptee~ Australia�s Next Top Model Judge Dead me b zola Mar 2014 #1

Her depression also is reportedly linked to an abortion marshall Mar 2014 #197

and you assume the abortion causes the suicide attempts? That's some brilliant RW reasoning! bettyellen Mar 2014 #235

That's why I qualified my statement with "reportedly" marshall Mar 2014 #245

Claudia and I were H.S. classmates. Same H.S., same year. The year after Stephen Baldwin. stevenleser Mar 2014 #2

I haven't met Claudia yet (just missed her in Atlanta last summer) me b zola Mar 2014 #3

She was one of the few already politically active folks in high school. I was interested, but not stevenleser Mar 2014 #4

Claudia's blog is great. Other good ones are StevieM Mar 2014 #7

No, I don't post there, but I do love to read First Mothers Forum me b zola Mar 2014 #82

Obama and Clinton are two happy and successful adoptees marshall Mar 2014 #5

The speckled goat ate oatmeal me b zola Mar 2014 #6

They are in a completely different position because they never lost their mothers. pnwmom Mar 2014 #10

I am an adoptee. So was my brother. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #15

What was so offensive? Not everyone is as lucky as you. pnwmom Mar 2014 #20

What's the difference between being loved by a biological parent or an adopted one? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #23

"Please don't talk to her about being adopted, EVER." That's pretty terrible advice. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #27

No, it's good advice. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #32

Well, for one thing, she's in an open adoption. There's no way to hide that from her. pnwmom Mar 2014 #40

How old are you? me b zola Mar 2014 #84

47 blueamy66 Mar 2014 #85

50 me b zola Mar 2014 #90

See, I had a Mother. There was only ONE. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #93

Did you feel better after you reunited with her? pnwmom Mar 2014 #175

Are you that mean-girl that my amom sent me to summer with in Newport Beach? me b zola Mar 2014 #83

what's an amom? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #86

I am adopted and have great parents, but the person you are beating up adigal Mar 2014 #212

I am beating someone up? I wasn't the one who posted about a 50 year old adoptee.... blueamy66 Mar 2014 #213

Again, you protest way too much for someone who is totally OK adigal Mar 2014 #217

How can one protest too much? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #222

That is a fair Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #225

Most children Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #173

You don't think it represents a significant loss in the child's life? n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #174

A significant loss? Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #178

I would never say your experiences or families are false. pnwmom Mar 2014 #181

Good. Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #182

If you constantly harp around your grand-daughter about adoptees Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #206

Don't worry. I'm sure I'll treat her with far more sensitivity than you ever would. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #207

This message was self-deleted by its author blueamy66 Mar 2014 #200

The woman had a six million euro debt and business problems. MADem Mar 2014 #39

Your analysis is way off base Orrex Mar 2014 #44

Yeah....that's the ticket....! nt MADem Mar 2014 #48

OTOH... pipi_k Mar 2014 #67

Oh, sure. NOW you tell me. Orrex Mar 2014 #68

Sorry... pipi_k Mar 2014 #81

You don't understand statistics? me b zola Mar 2014 #91

You don't, apparently. Let's break down your nasty little over-simplification, shall we? MADem Mar 2014 #101

and she had trouble with Mick, with whom she shared a half dozen residences and helped her bankroll bettyellen Mar 2014 #95

She didn't have the name recognition or customer base ... MADem Mar 2014 #100

Sadly she was well known as Mick's gal, and that undoubtably gave her an entree and some sales from bettyellen Mar 2014 #110

Don't forget RL's JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #141

I think she never had the name recogniition or hip factor. She may have never been interested in it. bettyellen Mar 2014 #163

I loved you before JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #179

Aww thanks- back at you Gen! I was working from home when I saw the sad news and immediately bettyellen Mar 2014 #208

it's too bad she was embarrassed to accept financial help. magical thyme Mar 2014 #146

I think people tend to project their own experiences onto situations like this... marshall Mar 2014 #76

Don't assume that you know how any adoptee feels me b zola Mar 2014 #87

Then why did you write an OP, assuming how an adoptee feels? nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #130

Exactly where did I write such an OP? me b zola Mar 2014 #138

Don't back down now! It would be bad form. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #150

+1,000...it's thick and deep, too... nt MADem Mar 2014 #165

Clinton and Obama were not ripped from the breast of their mothers when they StevieM Mar 2014 #11

So, I was 'RIPPED' from my mother's breast???? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #17

Why are you responding defensively? If your situation was better than it is for many, pnwmom Mar 2014 #21

Again, please refrain from speaking to your granddaughter. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #25

I honestly don't think that's pipi_k Mar 2014 #74

I didn't mean for her to not speak to her at all about the child's adoption. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #79

I wish I had her in my life while I was growing up me b zola Mar 2014 #92

Shame on me for what? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #94

You don't find what was written to be offensive? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #26

No one said you were ripped from your mother's breast. Why are you taking this so personally? pnwmom Mar 2014 #31

Um, read StevieM's post.... blueamy66 Mar 2014 #34

StevieM was making the point that adoptees who lost both parents are worse off pnwmom Mar 2014 #38

You need to re-read what I wrote. I didn't say that your mother "happily moved on with her life." StevieM Mar 2014 #135

I was never told this. Moved on? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #145

How do you know, since you seem to not have found your birth mother? adigal Mar 2014 #215

Who gives a shit? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #234

News flash...it's not "your" cause adigal Mar 2014 #244

Yeah, there is something seriously wrong with you. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #246

Get over what? Ok, no more discussion. You are being irrational. Nt adigal Mar 2014 #248

The thing that is wrong is you. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #251

Not one person told you to care about this adigal Mar 2014 #250

Who cares? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #247

Thre is a difference between acknowledging the real losses Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #53

Thank you Ms. Toad. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #57

+1,000--and ascribing every adoptee's death, even if that adoptee is a half century old, to some MADem Mar 2014 #58

and another angel823 Mar 2014 #70

That's absolutely true. But I'm not sure the poster who said that was describing pnwmom Mar 2014 #80

I am not demonizing the mother. I am doing the exact opposite. I am saying that StevieM Mar 2014 #155

You are demonizing those mothers who truly DID want to give up their children, Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #187

I used that phrase in the exact opposite way then how you are attributing it to me. StevieM Mar 2014 #189

Putting quotes around choosing Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #191

A pregnant woman is not a birth mother--she is an expectant mother StevieM Mar 2014 #193

You continue to act as if the scenario you are describing is the only adoption scenario Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #194

What I want is to make certain that women who sign relinquishment papers are truly doing so StevieM Mar 2014 #195

Fine - but stop pushing your agenda by implying that women who tell you the choice was theirs Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #199

The system wasn't a disgrace back when I was adopted. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #201

I am glad to hear that this is your issue with me--because it is easily resolved. StevieM Mar 2014 #229

No thanks. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #230

As an adult Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #227

I don't get the OP's agenda... blueamy66 Mar 2014 #231

Are you against adoption? Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #176

Absolutely not. pnwmom Mar 2014 #177

That is fair Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #180

You mis-read part of what I wrote. StevieM Mar 2014 #132

Okay. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #134

I don't question your love for your family, or that the love you feel is positive and healthy StevieM Mar 2014 #140

You got me at the wrong time. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #144

OK, then don't. But just know that if you were born in 1966 then that was StevieM Mar 2014 #158

Chances are that I don't give a shit. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #161

Methinks you protest WAY too much adigal Mar 2014 #216

Seriously? Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #228

Really? Pissed off so much... blueamy66 Mar 2014 #242

No one asked for your help...you are making stuff up adigal Mar 2014 #243

Because "Jack and Diane" are the archetypical parents who have a child "ripped from the breast" Sen. Walter Sobchak Mar 2014 #137

How lovely of their mother to call their natural mothers "trash." StevieM Mar 2014 #142

I believe her exact words were to the effect of "not naive unwed teenagers" Sen. Walter Sobchak Mar 2014 #157

Where did you find that this was L'Wren Scott's experience? marshall Mar 2014 #164

Adopted and growing up with a step-parent malaise Mar 2014 #169

I don't think that is the kind of adoption the OP is referring to. n/t Crunchy Frog Mar 2014 #198

Thanks for another informative post. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #8

And they are SEVEN times more likely to lose a child to adoption themselves (eom) StevieM Mar 2014 #9

Interesting. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #33

Please define the word "loose" in your post. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #36

It was a misplaced homonym. I meant to write "lose." (eom) StevieM Mar 2014 #133

"Lose" is not really a fair word treestar Mar 2014 #148

Often times, there isn't. Coercion and duress are rampant in the adoption industry. StevieM Mar 2014 #153

Since the assertion in the OP was not true, we'll need to see some cites, now. MADem Mar 2014 #167

Was she a banker? functioning_cog Mar 2014 #12

Am I the only person that thinks Aerows Mar 2014 #13

No You're Not vankuria Mar 2014 #14

I agree with you Bettie Mar 2014 #16

OMG, its not about the adoptive parents me b zola Mar 2014 #98

Perhaps if we'd quit labeling PARENTS as ADOPTIVE, there won't be as many issues. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #102

Exactly, why can't parents be parents Bettie Mar 2014 #105

Exactly. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #106

Frankly, my life would have been better Bettie Mar 2014 #108

For the last time--I said the exact opposite of what you keep attributing to me StevieM Mar 2014 #192

You are really reaching now... blueamy66 Mar 2014 #209

Except you automatically put them into the 'causing the problem' status Bettie Mar 2014 #104

No, what you wrote is what you read into my post(s) me b zola Mar 2014 #121

What the hell is a firstmother? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #126

A first mother refers to a natural or biological mother, or what many call a "birth" mother (eom) StevieM Mar 2014 #196

Many? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #202

"Myth of Happy Adoptionland" Bettie Mar 2014 #136

Your post reveals that you are committed to misrepresenting my post me b zola Mar 2014 #156

You are misrepresenting the study you referenced Bettie Mar 2014 #160

He's refusing to address that GLARING fact. The entire OP is built on a false assertion. nt MADem Mar 2014 #168

And yet, we're 'mean' for daring to question his great "wisdom" Bettie Mar 2014 #172

It's all about "catapulting a propaganda" as Porgie would say and it's disruptive and unhelpful. MADem Mar 2014 #185

The misrepresentation of the report is indeed the worst fault Bettie Mar 2014 #190

The original post and many of the replies are awful. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #18

The DUer who wrote the OP is adopted. Not every adoptee is as happy as you are. pnwmom Mar 2014 #22

If we're throwing "maybes" out there..... blueamy66 Mar 2014 #30

How do you know her parents made a big deal about her being adopted? pnwmom Mar 2014 #118

She obviously has an agenda. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #125

Yes, I have an agenda me b zola Mar 2014 #128

Again, what the hell is a "first" mother? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #129

To me, a "first" mother is the one who is there first thing in the morning and last thing at night. MADem Mar 2014 #166

Thank you for this. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #210

That doesn't give the OP the right to shop falsehoods and play games with statistics. MADem Mar 2014 #103

That is a valid criticism,and I'm glad to hear that information. pnwmom Mar 2014 #119

You are not an ADOPTIVE Grandmother. You are a Grandmother!!!!! blueamy66 Mar 2014 #127

Don't worry. I am her grandmother -- period. I only used the term here for the sake of context, pnwmom Mar 2014 #149

Good. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #151

Thank you, blueamy66. pnwmom Mar 2014 #152

Sorry to be a bitch.... blueamy66 Mar 2014 #154

We all have those times, as you have reminded me, pnwmom Mar 2014 #159

In fairness, I find the OP does not give the same latitude to others.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2014 #123

That's exactly the problem Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #183

Yup. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #188

i'm with you. as an adoptee i find these posts highly offensive. let alone ignorant. nt xchrom Mar 2014 #29

I agree with you - the op was almost trollish reformist2 Mar 2014 #35

The accompanying photo IS trollish, IMO. MADem Mar 2014 #56

I agree. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #60

How the Christian right perverts adoption me b zola Mar 2014 #147

You should be ashamed of yourself. It's not your damn business why a person chooses a path they MADem Mar 2014 #162

And this is why I am so pissed off. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #236

It most certainly is our business why a person "chooses" a certain path if they were coerced StevieM Mar 2014 #237

It's not up to YOU to make that suggestion, and that is what the OP is doing. MADem Mar 2014 #238

If a woman is taking painkillers, then that dramatically reduces her ability to resist duress. StevieM Mar 2014 #239

No it doesn't. Not if the dose is appropriate to her pain level. MADem Mar 2014 #240

How about waiting until they are no longer in pain OR taking medication StevieM Mar 2014 #241

No. No you are not. But some people will use the death of anyone who suits their agenda. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #37

It sucks because it's bullshit. The woman was broke and in a mess. MADem Mar 2014 #42

It's awful BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #43

I think it is repulsive and bigoted Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #59

no you're not the only person... one_voice Mar 2014 #139

What is your alternative? Sheldon Cooper Mar 2014 #19

I think the OP was just trying to make the point that adoptees face a much higher risk of suicide. pnwmom Mar 2014 #24

No, I think the OP was operating a flame-thrower. MADem Mar 2014 #61

We all know that OP has subtextual agenda, that it exploits a real person as rhetorical Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #63

At 49, Ms. Scott was hardly an adolescent. Barack_America Mar 2014 #28

While I think it is important to be aware that an incrased risk of suicide Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #41

I agree with you--some people are just NOT CUT OUT to be parents. MADem Mar 2014 #47

Well Said! vankuria Mar 2014 #66

I have always felt this way also get the red out Mar 2014 #107

The poster, as I've said elsewhere in this thread, BLATANTLY mis-stated what that study said. MADem Mar 2014 #109

The misrepresentation get the red out Mar 2014 #111

If I had to guess, I would suggest that the thread starter dislikes the concept of MADem Mar 2014 #112

I agree. LeftishBrit Mar 2014 #221

Here is a good article about grief and loss in adoptive children, and how caring adults can help. pnwmom Mar 2014 #45

What does it have to do with a woman who was nearly 50? LisaL Mar 2014 #46

Maybe nothing. I think the OP was just trying to educate people pnwmom Mar 2014 #49

Why doesn't he/she educate people without bringing a completely unrelated case into it? LisaL Mar 2014 #50

Why are you asking me? I just posted an article about grief and loss among adoptees, pnwmom Mar 2014 #51

You have responded in lieu of the OP to questions asked of the OP multiple times Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #64

You are doing exactly what you are criticizing me for, except with your usual nastiness. Bye! n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #72

Bullshit! blueamy66 Mar 2014 #54

This explains a lot Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #65

It breaks my heart to think that we might not be enough pnwmom Mar 2014 #77

The issue isn't pretending otherwise - Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #184

I understand, Ms. Toad. Thanks for caring. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #186

I already explained to you that she's in an open adoption so it would be especially wrong pnwmom Mar 2014 #75

Fine...tell her that she is adopted.... blueamy66 Mar 2014 #88

She will lead the way. It will be completely up to her when and how much she wants to talk about it. pnwmom Mar 2014 #96

Hopefully her parents will tell her and not you. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #97

My husband's evil stepmother screwed him out of his inheritance after his father died. catbyte Mar 2014 #52

Maybe adoption had nothing to do with her death... Deuce Mar 2014 #55

I have a friend who gave up a child for adoption. Nine Mar 2014 #62

I remember a professor in college that said we were more likely to be mentally ill. mmonk Mar 2014 #69

I hope that obtuse bastard of a professor gave you a "guilty A" for the course! nt MADem Mar 2014 #71

Technically the professor was right. Xithras Mar 2014 #99

Of all of the hateful and misinformation posted as a response in this thread, yours takes the cake me b zola Mar 2014 #131

Nothing I wrote is even vaguely offensive to anyone who understands statistics. Xithras Mar 2014 #143

Ok, I was born in 1961 adigal Mar 2014 #218

Well, the crap you were slinging in the OP--misrepresenting the study results--isn't too swift, MADem Mar 2014 #170

Some people won't like this but, HockeyMom Mar 2014 #73

Here's my view--ain't nobody's business what your husband's aunt does. MADem Mar 2014 #113

OP talked about ripping babies from mother's tits in adoptions HockeyMom Mar 2014 #115

I think the OP is looking to fit his circumstances into a narrative that all adoptions are bad. MADem Mar 2014 #116

That picture is fucked up snooper2 Mar 2014 #78

The headline could also be another narcissist living wildly beyond snagglepuss Mar 2014 #89

how old was she when she was adopted ? JI7 Mar 2014 #114

The OP's "study" is all about children and adolescents attempting suicide. MADem Mar 2014 #117

+1 HockeyMom Mar 2014 #120

i notice the OP tends to do this a lot JI7 Mar 2014 #122

This kind of shit is rude, disruptive and bad for DU. It's hurtful to people who are adopted or MADem Mar 2014 #124

Thanks for this post. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #203

I agree, that graphic is OTT with it's assumptions. bettyellen Mar 2014 #226

What does her being adopted have to do anything? Terra Alta Mar 2014 #171

This is blatantly anti-choice noamnety Mar 2014 #204

Yes, and the sister blames her "barrenness" for the suicide marshall Mar 2014 #205

Really? Four times more likely? adigal Mar 2014 #211

Okay, not to downplay your feelings....BUT blueamy66 Mar 2014 #214

Absolutely! Empathy, compassion, sensitivity, many of these things adigal Mar 2014 #219

Interesting.... blueamy66 Mar 2014 #220

That statistic is completely false. The thread starter took a study that had the words "four MADem Mar 2014 #224

Could not have said it any better. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #232

What bothers me here.. LeftishBrit Mar 2014 #223

Very succinct argument. Well done. nt MADem Mar 2014 #233

The only attack that has been made in this thread is against those who speak up for adoptee rights me b zola Mar 2014 #252

Post removed Post removed Mar 2014 #249