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dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)

27. Then we are at cross purposes

Tue Mar 18, 2014, 10:40 AM

Mar 2014

My intention was to convey that Moscow had no motive for helping remove him.

btw Yanukovych didn't renege on the reforms to join the EU. What actually happened was that at the meeting with the EU when he had had already clear Ukraine would need funding of c. $8 billion for this year alone to help cover the transition the EU offered one billion only. That ended the meeting as it left no workable economic model.

In terms of reforms he had already lost IMF funding 2008 and 2010 by refusing to increase the price of gas to consumers and devalue their currency - both to help protect Ukraine's population. It is those same reforms that the now EU expect in return for the $15 billion now promised PLUS substantial reductions in government spending which will include lowering state pensions. Those conditions exactly mirror those of the IMF's now current terms too.

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Where is proof that Ukraine's revolution was orchestrated by the West? [View all] DetlefK Mar 2014 OP

Bush invaded Iraq in 2003 Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #1

The funny thing about this is, it's more reasonable to suspect KGB's successor organizations FSB/SVR stevenleser Mar 2014 #2

an intercepted phone call. magical thyme Mar 2014 #3

Do you have a transcript of the call that shows what you are claiming? msanthrope Mar 2014 #4

the article originated in Democracy Now magical thyme Mar 2014 #13

Bwah Recursion Mar 2014 #24

That simply does not back up your claims...expressing a preference two months after the protests msanthrope Mar 2014 #28

Apparently I plotted coups against John McCain and Mitt Romney. nt Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #31

You realize the protests were happening for two months before that call right? Diplomats often stevenleser Mar 2014 #7

Transcript: no proof of plotting or manipulation DetlefK Mar 2014 #8

taken within context: magical thyme Mar 2014 #34

US government officials rallying the crowds in Kiev + admission that $5 billion was spent funding it reformist2 Mar 2014 #5

Prove it. DetlefK Mar 2014 #9

Nuland admitted it herself. magical thyme Mar 2014 #35

that money has been since Ukraine declared independence and is accounted for in various okaawhatever Mar 2014 #38

Pretty much by association. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #6

That's hardly proof. Those facts just as easily implicate Putin acting Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #11

In which case dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #15

Um. What? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #16

Try reading the question again. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #19

Please restate the question. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #20

Then we are at cross purposes dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #27

"My intention was to convey that Moscow had no motive for helping remove him." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #29

You fail to mention that the EU turned them down two years earlier because of their lack okaawhatever Mar 2014 #39

I wasn't drawing a comparison with an alternative trade agreement. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #42

So far, none. Just ODS and CT. riqster Mar 2014 #10

I don't think it's ODS in its purist form but Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #12

COOKIES!!! MNBrewer Mar 2014 #14

You are only incriminating yourself. DetlefK Mar 2014 #17

They were good old fashioned American chocolate chip cookies MNBrewer Mar 2014 #21

Not sure, but a couple questions that come to mind when considering it. quinnox Mar 2014 #18

That's not proof and if it were it would equally implicate the former head of the KGB. nt Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #22

I didn't say it was proof, I said those are the questions that come to my mind when considering it quinnox Mar 2014 #23

OK, between the US and Russia, which has done that more in the past century? Recursion Mar 2014 #25

To that question I would think about what side it would benefit more, in this instance quinnox Mar 2014 #26

On the face of it, Moscow would gain more than the US. riqster Mar 2014 #30

Moscow definitely has more at stake here than Washington Recursion Mar 2014 #32

Confusion of the inverse/Conditional Probability fallacy Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #33

video of Nuland discussing the $5B spent on the Ukraine, plus the sequence of key events magical thyme Mar 2014 #36

This thread is so awesome Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #37

Some days DU reads like a neverending Tom Clancy novel that lost Skidmore Mar 2014 #41

Phase one: Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #40