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magical thyme

(14,881 posts)

34. taken within context:

Tue Mar 18, 2014, 12:56 PM

Mar 2014

European Union makes offer to "help" Ukraine via IMF loans, austerity etc.
Putin makes offer to help Ukraine with discounted heating fuel and bigger loans without the austerity requirements.

European Union tells Ukraine, a country with a population divided between Europe and Russian loyalties, they most *choose* between Russia's offer and theirs.

Putin suggests tripartite agreement instead. European Union says no. A sharply divided country, per the European Union, must choose one side or the other.

Yanukovych makes the choice. Protests ensue from the half of the country that wants the other choice. Protests turn violent. Government sends out riot police.

President Obama calls on Yankuvych to call off the riot police.
Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland goes to the Ukraine, feeds people on the front lines the violent protests.

and then the phone conversation:

GEOFFREY PYATT: Let me work on Klitschko, and if you can just keep—I think we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing.

So who is Klitschko?

Tipped by some to be Ukraine’s next president, Klitschko also said he feared ethnic cleansing in the peninsula.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/17/ukraine-crisis-klitschko-warns-of-humanitarian-disaster-in-crimea/

IOW, the fix is in.

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Where is proof that Ukraine's revolution was orchestrated by the West? [View all] DetlefK Mar 2014 OP

Bush invaded Iraq in 2003 Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #1

The funny thing about this is, it's more reasonable to suspect KGB's successor organizations FSB/SVR stevenleser Mar 2014 #2

an intercepted phone call. magical thyme Mar 2014 #3

Do you have a transcript of the call that shows what you are claiming? msanthrope Mar 2014 #4

the article originated in Democracy Now magical thyme Mar 2014 #13

Bwah Recursion Mar 2014 #24

That simply does not back up your claims...expressing a preference two months after the protests msanthrope Mar 2014 #28

Apparently I plotted coups against John McCain and Mitt Romney. nt Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #31

You realize the protests were happening for two months before that call right? Diplomats often stevenleser Mar 2014 #7

Transcript: no proof of plotting or manipulation DetlefK Mar 2014 #8

taken within context: magical thyme Mar 2014 #34

US government officials rallying the crowds in Kiev + admission that $5 billion was spent funding it reformist2 Mar 2014 #5

Prove it. DetlefK Mar 2014 #9

Nuland admitted it herself. magical thyme Mar 2014 #35

that money has been since Ukraine declared independence and is accounted for in various okaawhatever Mar 2014 #38

Pretty much by association. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #6

That's hardly proof. Those facts just as easily implicate Putin acting Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #11

In which case dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #15

Um. What? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #16

Try reading the question again. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #19

Please restate the question. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #20

Then we are at cross purposes dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #27

"My intention was to convey that Moscow had no motive for helping remove him." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #29

You fail to mention that the EU turned them down two years earlier because of their lack okaawhatever Mar 2014 #39

I wasn't drawing a comparison with an alternative trade agreement. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #42

So far, none. Just ODS and CT. riqster Mar 2014 #10

I don't think it's ODS in its purist form but Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #12

COOKIES!!! MNBrewer Mar 2014 #14

You are only incriminating yourself. DetlefK Mar 2014 #17

They were good old fashioned American chocolate chip cookies MNBrewer Mar 2014 #21

Not sure, but a couple questions that come to mind when considering it. quinnox Mar 2014 #18

That's not proof and if it were it would equally implicate the former head of the KGB. nt Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #22

I didn't say it was proof, I said those are the questions that come to my mind when considering it quinnox Mar 2014 #23

OK, between the US and Russia, which has done that more in the past century? Recursion Mar 2014 #25

To that question I would think about what side it would benefit more, in this instance quinnox Mar 2014 #26

On the face of it, Moscow would gain more than the US. riqster Mar 2014 #30

Moscow definitely has more at stake here than Washington Recursion Mar 2014 #32

Confusion of the inverse/Conditional Probability fallacy Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #33

video of Nuland discussing the $5B spent on the Ukraine, plus the sequence of key events magical thyme Mar 2014 #36

This thread is so awesome Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #37

Some days DU reads like a neverending Tom Clancy novel that lost Skidmore Mar 2014 #41

Phase one: Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #40