General Discussion

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)

41. Seems clear to me - We love death panels ...

Sun Mar 25, 2012, 01:13 PM

Mar 2012

So far, the vast majority of folks here seem to be clearly in favor of a death panel - as long as we get to be on it and determine who is worthy, and get to pick a more PC name for it. There are plenty of posts that say Cheney doesn't deserve a new heart because ________ . We will happily describe the process and priority mechanism we like best, and usually Cheney will be at the end of the line because _____ . Usually due to issues of ideology or politics. Or age - who is it now pushing grandpa over the cliff?

Some will even start out by saying that we as progressives should NEVER say life saving health care should be withheld from anybody for any reason, and then go on in the next sentence rationalizing why we should make an exception for Cheney.

Just listen to us. It's just about exactly what the right wingers were saying would happen once health care becomes a "public good."

At least there are a few posts like this OP that makes me feel a little better.

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Cheney Followed the UNOS Rules. Stop the Insanity Please. [View all] K Gardner Mar 2012 OP

True, that. But I sure wouldn't want MY heart going to that creep mainer Mar 2012 #1

I know how you feel obey Mar 2012 #12

+1 LOL (nt) K Gardner Mar 2012 #15

It's not a question of him GETTING a new heart it's a question of who ISN'T getting one b/c of him. FarLeftFist Mar 2012 #83

He was on a waiting list like everyone else. Muskypundit Mar 2012 #165

This is one of DU's strengths trumping one of its weaknesses RZM Mar 2012 #2

Very good point! I join in your gratitude for the expertise of the OP. (n/t) Jim Lane Mar 2012 #116

It's difficult to be rational with this monster tech_smythe Mar 2012 #172

Uhhh . . . RZM Mar 2012 #173

Look at the cheney's career... tech_smythe Mar 2012 #206

I don't want to continue, because I don't feel like wasting the energy RZM Mar 2012 #208

I'll concede the point tech_smythe Mar 2012 #209

I don't think war criminals/war-profiteers deserve new hearts. Old and In the Way Mar 2012 #3

K&R... stonecutter357 Mar 2012 #54

recommended n/t ruggerson Mar 2012 #4

You of course are free to believe whatever you want to. Rex Mar 2012 #5

I have no problem with criminals being treated medically as humanely as anyone else. In fact I sabrina 1 Mar 2012 #6

+1 eShirl Mar 2012 #8

I do have a post in my Way Back Journal here about the need for K Gardner Mar 2012 #14

You made me think. Do I hate or not. rhett o rick Mar 2012 #7

I, too, would like to see him at the Hague. Agreed. nt K Gardner Mar 2012 #36

If Cheney were in prison where he belongs he wouldn't have been on that list. obxhead Mar 2012 #9

Actually, you are wrong nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #18

Prisoners may be able to receive heart transplants... PoliticAverse Mar 2012 #21

Correct. n/t K Gardner Mar 2012 #25

I stand corrected. obxhead Mar 2012 #29

We don't see those words often enough on DU. randome Mar 2012 #34

But how many have? Ikonoklast Mar 2012 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author rtassi Mar 2012 #154

K&R - great post!! LiberalLoner Mar 2012 #10

Excellent post! K&R rustydog Mar 2012 #11

Nicely put. n/t greytdemocrat Mar 2012 #13

I am not a hater nor do I believe in capital punishment larkrake Mar 2012 #16

And exactly how do you explain this nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #20

71 years old is NOT average. he has never followed the law and never would larkrake Mar 2012 #150

Sorry buster but older people are now getting transplants nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #152

Then you need to provide proof that while waiting 20 months for a K Gardner Mar 2012 #27

This message was self-deleted by its author Obamanaut Mar 2012 #55

he's still lucky tooeyeten Mar 2012 #17

I totally agree. And maybe he SHOULD be the poster boy for Universal K Gardner Mar 2012 #30

absolutely agree! n/t tooeyeten Mar 2012 #125

Thank you for a clarifying post. hedgehog Mar 2012 #19

And proximity nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #22

+1 - this is something very few understand about the UNOS lists. nt K Gardner Mar 2012 #28

Which means that a person with means, particularly COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #63

There is only one list. 'Local lists' and such are just part of the larger list. Bluenorthwest Mar 2012 #79

There is one national list nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #91

And like you I am flabbergasted by the conspiracy theories. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #23

True, but the venting will die down here really fast. gulliver Mar 2012 #24

I think he is an enemy of humanity, maybe an actual human heart will improve TheKentuckian Mar 2012 #26

Hey!! greytdemocrat Mar 2012 #33

Excellent post and I agree. cbayer Mar 2012 #31

Model the civility you want to read, thanks. n/t EFerrari Mar 2012 #32

Bull. After the lies Cheney laid on Americans, he deserves NOTHING from America. He does not valerief Mar 2012 #35

Then you advocate Death Panels. And who will be the Decider on who lives K Gardner Mar 2012 #38

I see you are all for death pannels then. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #39

He should be in prison and have to wait in the prison queue. I'd personally rather see him dead. valerief Mar 2012 #47

Then you are for death PANNELS nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #48

What is a pannel? nt valerief Mar 2012 #50

Where you get to decide who is worthy of getting nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #52

I'm not going to be boxed into answering a question with terms framed by the RW. valerief Mar 2012 #56

Separate from medical care nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #57

Guess I'm a hater. I'm okay with that. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2012 #37

That language was incendiary on my part, you're right. I removed it K Gardner Mar 2012 #40

Seems clear to me - We love death panels ... oldhippie Mar 2012 #41

+1. Perfectly stated. We end up validating their irrational fears. n/t K Gardner Mar 2012 #44

+1 (n/t) a2liberal Mar 2012 #72

Ok calm down everybody please! DippyDem Mar 2012 #42

THANK YOU. cali Mar 2012 #43

War criminals deserve prison. Period. James48 Mar 2012 #45

You can hold all the opinions you want about any person in the world - K Gardner Mar 2012 #49

Well thank goodness then that the OP didnt say they believed Cheney shouldnt be in prison then. cstanleytech Mar 2012 #67

Cheney should be incacerated as war criminal or for commiting treason but has never come to pass. gordianot Mar 2012 #46

"Should" is much different Mz Pip Mar 2012 #65

I Will Admit to Some Skepticism About How a "Donor" Was Obtained AndyTiedye Mar 2012 #51

The system is blind. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #53

Imported from China? n/t backscatter712 Mar 2012 #149

The oppressor within turns people into what they hate. nt patrice Mar 2012 #58

Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #59

Many thanks. JohnnyLib2 Mar 2012 #60

Thanks, K Gardner. JDPriestly Mar 2012 #61

YW, JD. I agree I don't want to see Dems fall to the level of those K Gardner Mar 2012 #62

yes, we should continue to wish well on those trying to destroy us Doctor_J Mar 2012 #144

Are you an actual md? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #156

Sorry Doc Botany Mar 2012 #64

Bought one from China? Are those available for immediate transport? Wow. And if he were going to K Gardner Mar 2012 #68

Flight time woud not remain viable. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #73

Gullible much. If you think he did not pull any striongs you must not have paid attention to the... Logical Mar 2012 #66

So, per your "theory", he allowed himself to be placed on a mechanical K Gardner Mar 2012 #70

How do you know he had four months to live? Based on what? Logical Mar 2012 #75

The longest anyone has ever survived with an LVAD is two years. He'd K Gardner Mar 2012 #77

So others have went 24 months and not got a transplant?? Doesn;t that prove my point. Logical Mar 2012 #80

Hmm no. There are less organs than recipients nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #85

My point is the "match" part is how he got an advantage. You are gullible. Logical Mar 2012 #89

If gullible means understanding nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #92

I have enjoyed yours the last few weeks! Thanks! Logical Mar 2012 #97

I am sure you have nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #98

I am the least conspiracy person here. But thinking a former VP gets better chances, even if just... Logical Mar 2012 #100

Since the team got nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #103

LOL...ok. I guess I am wrong. Logical Mar 2012 #104

Yes, you are wrong nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #106

Justice is blind also? And Pharma studies? And FDA decisions? Wow, wish I lived in your world! Logical Mar 2012 #107

Your world is easier for you since it allows you to believe what you want onenote Mar 2012 #108

Answer my question. Double blind Pharma drug studies? You 100% trust them also? Logical Mar 2012 #109

I posted in the photography forum a photo nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #110

No, those are not. So quit trying to change the topic. No one else in the country... Logical Mar 2012 #111

According to NIH tey are far more regular nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #112

Not at all. I love your fantasy world. Must be easy to live in. Calm, no thinking required! Nice! Logical Mar 2012 #114

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dick-cheney-heart-transplant/story?id=15998479 K Gardner Mar 2012 #113

I have not doubt people are looking at this close. I hope they are not as naive as you. Logical Mar 2012 #115

May you never need to avail yourself of the same advanced nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #117

Routine if you can get one. That is what we are debating. Not the ease of doing it. get it?? Logical Mar 2012 #119

And you have the same chance nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #120

If you think the FDA has no flaws then work in big pharma a couple of decades. Eye opener. I wish... Logical Mar 2012 #122

They have problems nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #123

WTF is wrong with you? Please post the quote where I said anything close to that? I will wait. Logical Mar 2012 #124

You have been arguing with zero evidence nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #126

OK, then you lied about my FDA stand. Glad you admit it. Done with you. Dream away! Logical Mar 2012 #127

I admit nothing nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #128

No, I asked if you trusted every double blind study and every FDA decision. So you did lie. You... Logical Mar 2012 #129

Hilarious nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #131

I'll stop kicking your ass on this thread. You are taking a beating in plenty of others. Bye Bye!! Logical Mar 2012 #132

You are? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #133

Nadin..just ignore him. You know what you're talking about, he K Gardner Mar 2012 #138

You can be certain he had an advantage. AtheistCrusader Mar 2012 #200

Funniest post ever! Yeah, an ass got kicked on this thread, but it wasn't nadin's. 11 Bravo Mar 2012 #146

You know, you really should consider changing your DU Moniker. K Gardner Mar 2012 #93

Wow, that is clever! Logical Mar 2012 #95

You really should determine Aerows Mar 2012 #99

I'm writing in support of the Organ Transplant Association, UNOS.. not K Gardner Mar 2012 #101

Sorry but here we are just talking of a transplant system nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #102

Bravo. n/t K Gardner Mar 2012 #105

Damn! He was likely a few months away from death? Webster Green Mar 2012 #166

"The longest anyone has ever survived with an LVAD is two years" Contrary1 Mar 2012 #174

And how exactly did he pull strings nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #71

K&R (n/t) a2liberal Mar 2012 #69

He is a human, despite all appearances. Where's the compassion. Gregorian Mar 2012 #74

after reading this discussion i can see why it`s not left up to the moralist`s to decide.. madrchsod Mar 2012 #76

+1 K Gardner Mar 2012 #78

Thank you. Unfortunately, willful ignorance has become too common on DU onenote Mar 2012 #81

Cheney is an asshole Aerows Mar 2012 #82

No one said it was a victory. The post is simply refuting the bizarre K Gardner Mar 2012 #84

Cheney is likely the worst human being to walk the face of the earth Aerows Mar 2012 #87

Not to dredge up an even more ancient past, but Cheney availed himself coalition_unwilling Mar 2012 #141

Well grantcart Mar 2012 #86

Have to agree with your last line :-) K Gardner Mar 2012 #88

Yes Kharma can be a bitch, another technical question grantcart Mar 2012 #94

I admit that I am not knowledgeable about the transplant BlueMTexpat Mar 2012 #90

You're quoting from two hospitals websites and criteria. K Gardner Mar 2012 #96

Fine. I realize that there are different guidelines. And that's fine. BlueMTexpat Mar 2012 #203

Following petty rules to a bizarre extreme, with no comprehension of a bigger picture, IS insanity. saras Mar 2012 #118

Ethics fail nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #121

"By almost of the world's rules," one must be tried and convicted before sentence is passed. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2012 #137

Besides Cheney might be nicer person now that he has heart! ;-) on point Mar 2012 #130

He, he himself, might carve the roast beast. eShirl Mar 2012 #135

Waste of a good heart secondvariety Mar 2012 #134

Yes! Love Your Captors, Don't Hate Them! mckara Mar 2012 #136

Prove to me the matching team nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #139

Another obvious case of someone not reading the post. K Gardner Mar 2012 #140

Look at Your Opening Statement... mckara Mar 2012 #205

So this war criminal followed the rules...for once... joeybee12 Mar 2012 #142

Heh. Using ABC (the All Bush Channel) for reference Doctor_J Mar 2012 #143

Another person who either didn't read the post or can't comprehend the content. K Gardner Mar 2012 #162

He may not have manipulated UNOS, JEB Mar 2012 #145

Sorry but as a former medical provider nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #153

If only JEB Mar 2012 #157

And that is where the irony comes with Dick nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #158

I do understand what you are saying and if I did not have to check my K Gardner Mar 2012 #164

Party pooper! progressoid Mar 2012 #147

I hope he got JEB Mar 2012 #148

LOL.. well, I'm with you on that one ! I don't think there is a statute of limitations on war crimes K Gardner Mar 2012 #159

None nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #161

K&R DeSwiss Mar 2012 #151

One of my all time favorite quotes. Thanks for posting it. n/t K Gardner Mar 2012 #160

There are lots of people in this thread nobodyspecial Mar 2012 #163

It's not my fault Cheney had a horrible heart. However, he was not a good man... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2012 #167

This was an OP about how organ transplant lists work. Not about whether a person K Gardner Mar 2012 #168

I realize that. Regardless of the process (which sounds good on paper, but where there's $$$$, it Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2012 #169

So let me get this right... 1620rock Mar 2012 #170

The Donald could travel internationally to a country where organ buying is perfectly legal. eShirl Mar 2012 #177

Do you actually think that anyone would arrest Cheney outside the US? Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #188

Yes, I do think Cheney would be subject to possible arrest outside the US. eShirl Mar 2012 #190

Granted, that was Switzerland Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #193

Thank you! snot Mar 2012 #171

Thank you to the OP for posting that information. I have to admit, the thought crossed my mind to IndyJones Mar 2012 #175

There's really nothing that isn't influenced by money. From getting a table at a restaurant is Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2012 #196

I have a VERY HARD time believing that a man who Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #176

He would have to if he wanted the best medical experts in the US on his transplant team. eShirl Mar 2012 #178

You don't think that as a former *cough* vice president, Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #179

Of course he has access to the best medical experts. eShirl Mar 2012 #181

He has access to the best medical experts *without having to wait* Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #182

Forget Cheney's character, you are accusing his doctors of corruption. eShirl Mar 2012 #183

I made no such accusation Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #186

How exactly could he game the system with all other parties remaining innocent? eShirl Mar 2012 #187

He has gamed the system before Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #189

Yes, absolutely. eShirl Mar 2012 #191

And yet, no one paid for that crime Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #194

Correct. eShirl Mar 2012 #198

also, standing in a long line is EXACTLY what happened eShirl Mar 2012 #184

Amen Doctor_J Mar 2012 #192

And yet, he did. If you'll take the time to read the numerous articles that go back TWO YEARS K Gardner Mar 2012 #201

Fact - he did wait 20 months. emilyg Mar 2012 #204

You're pretty much on the same page as I am on this... MrMickeysMom Mar 2012 #180

As a gay man behrstar Mar 2012 #185

Yes, like it or not . . . Brigid Mar 2012 #195

There are few people I despise more cheneyschernobyl Mar 2012 #197

With friends like this, you get what you need. CrispyQ Mar 2012 #199

fuck dick cheney in his ear datasuspect Mar 2012 #202

I agree with you 100%- I have cared for both donors and recipients w8liftinglady Mar 2012 #207