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LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)

34. And they were demanding to know every last thing about his wife's medical condition,

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:53 AM

Mar 2014

her medication, etc. It was so appalling I had to close the thread out, and I'm not exactly conflict averse.

We lost a close friend of the family to MS not real long ago, and the last few years of her tragically shortened life were horrific. We're talking infected bedsores and dementia in her 40s horrific, the kind of end that made dying in her 50s look like a mercy. I've been thinking about it a lot today because of Will's family's situation. If the person I love the most needed a medication to avoid that fate and was getting dicked around in getting it? My reaction would make Will's look MILD AND RESTRAINED.

We need a system that gets people their medication without having to jump through hoops of fire, get a PhD in insurance company bullshit, or go on their knees to the pharmaceutical company.

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What's with the glee over another DUer's wife's (possible) suffering? [View all] cui bono Mar 2014 OP

What's better...offering positive solutions? Or commiserating and giving up? CJCRANE Mar 2014 #1

What's going on now goes beyond making a political point. Lars39 Mar 2014 #2

I understand Will's anger CJCRANE Mar 2014 #3

Being ugly for the sake of it Aerows Mar 2014 #8

Will made a political piont in the middle of an ongoing situation. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #11

But what I'm seeing is like spitting on someone just because they took his lashing out personally. cui bono Mar 2014 #26

He criticized CJCRANE Mar 2014 #27

And you think that justifies someone throwing it in Pitt's face that his gf got her meds fine. cui bono Mar 2014 #202

He Criticized RobinA Mar 2014 #147

The human mouth is not capable of making sounds that aptly describe cherokeeprogressive Mar 2014 #188

When I pleaded for civility Aerows Mar 2014 #258

Don't forget the latest charge... Lars39 Mar 2014 #261

Oh, yeah Aerows Mar 2014 #262

Sometimes that's the only thing to do. Lars39 Mar 2014 #263

Oh I totally believe you. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2014 #270

Got any more stories? That was a good read. n/t 5X Mar 2014 #329

Hundreds. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2014 #332

I just found the "callous post." It's the same DUer who stroked his gun... WorseBeforeBetter Mar 2014 #310

Calling the President a "POS", and "FU President" is what caused the diversion. It wasn't the lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #309

It is ugly to use personal things treestar Mar 2014 #76

you don't call saying "Fuck You President Obama" "you piece of shit car salesman" ugly? VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #127

What's ugly is placing hurt feelings over a politician over a human life. Lars39 Mar 2014 #132

NO one did that! VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #134

Your insistence does not make it so. Lars39 Mar 2014 #140

So you believe a new member came to DU and say..."Fuck You President Obama" and VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #145

Given the circumstances of his wife's condition, No. Lars39 Mar 2014 #148

and he has been proven wrong and never retracted.... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #151

No, you do not know for sure that a newbie with the same level of circumstances and ignorance Lars39 Mar 2014 #158

This Being RobinA Mar 2014 #154

What does being a Liberal have to do with it? VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #156

It makes perfect sense. Boudica the Lyoness Mar 2014 #184

Apparently you do not understand OUR 1st Amendment... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #219

You can have your own opinions but not your own facts theboss Mar 2014 #157

That's usually the problem with the President's critics. Manufactured facts, manufactured outrage stevenleser Mar 2014 #278

Ahhh . . . Pitt's original op could have been on Freeperville . . . brush Mar 2014 #284

The aggressive, angry, name calling behavior of the person in question deservedly bluestate10 Mar 2014 #314

DU isn't a perfect community Aerows Mar 2014 #315

And hopefully helped others in the same boat. Lars39 Mar 2014 #9

It truly does Aerows Mar 2014 #5

it was NOT JUST a political disagreement....that is disingenuous for you to keep whitewashing that VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #133

They would only be happy with every responsive post treestar Mar 2014 #69

I think there may be CJCRANE Mar 2014 #89

Agree. Skidmore Mar 2014 #93

I also wonder CJCRANE Mar 2014 #123

absolutley! n/t Sheepshank Mar 2014 #206

You know what I notice? cui bono Mar 2014 #210

That's fair enough. I don't do that. But you're right, both sides of the DU divide do. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #252

I honestly wish juries were done away with and there was very strict moderation. cui bono Mar 2014 #255

I completely agree. nt CJCRANE Mar 2014 #260

That may be because no one has the slightest hope of anything even close to reason from Republicans sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #272

i notice that too noiretextatique Mar 2014 #254

We've been dicking around with the idea of "universal coverage" since the late 60s theboss Mar 2014 #92

"Obama is the enemy because he didn't turn us into Canada in 6 months." Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #102

"Obama somehow gets the ACA passed...." NoOneMan Mar 2014 #120

It's been longer than that. jeff47 Mar 2014 #126

Go back some more brush Mar 2014 #291

and that advice was met with more flame and evasive answers itsrobert Mar 2014 #152

Wrong ProSense Mar 2014 #4

Nonsense Lars39 Mar 2014 #10

No, it's not "nonsense." n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #12

Us? seveneyes Mar 2014 #65

So how many (more) of your 60 posts a day Union Scribe Mar 2014 #14

As many as I friggin feel like. ProSense Mar 2014 #18

In other words, yes you plan to continue Union Scribe Mar 2014 #22

Spare me the silly characterizations. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #24

Strawman victim card.. Deflection Cha Mar 2014 #29

Really, your take on my post is that it's a cheap tactic to shut down criticism? cui bono Mar 2014 #28

Nonsense. ProSense Mar 2014 #30

Nonsense. cui bono Mar 2014 #33

BS. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #35

Explain yourself then. I don't understand your last post. cui bono Mar 2014 #38

Yes it is treestar Mar 2014 #70

Show how it is then... I don't see it. cui bono Mar 2014 #212

This post is directly addressing posters like you. n-t Logical Mar 2014 #221

I don't know about "Gleeful" Scootaloo Mar 2014 #326

Well... Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2014 #6

I don't know. When I joined DU it was full of profane rants CJCRANE Mar 2014 #21

did someone threaten to kill him or something ? JI7 Mar 2014 #7

. Egnever Mar 2014 #13

No, they disagreed with his political point and gave him advice to help resolve CJCRANE Mar 2014 #16

No, I don't think you've seen the thread that is calling him out. cui bono Mar 2014 #31

I see self-righteous bullies with no empathy. I thought that only conservatives were like that. rhett o rick Mar 2014 #249

And just so we're clear on which thread: Lars39 Mar 2014 #15

That's not the only one out there either. Union Scribe Mar 2014 #17

True, but this is the thread the OP is citing. Lars39 Mar 2014 #20

Apparently some people here can have it both ways. SammyWinstonJack Mar 2014 #58

Indeed LondonReign2 Mar 2014 #101

Those are sarcasm because Obama had nothing to do with either. theboss Mar 2014 #104

If it's the poster I'm thinking of Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #114

Oh...someone was mean to Will theboss Mar 2014 #116

Your childish response is out of place Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #117

Half my posts have been really good advice on health insurance theboss Mar 2014 #131

What percentage were spent Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #135

Ten theboss Mar 2014 #142

I got my very first hide in that post Marrah_G Mar 2014 #100

What you said was very mild, QC Mar 2014 #160

yup Marrah_G Mar 2014 #164

one of those folk speculated on his financial status Skittles Mar 2014 #19

You've been here longer than me, Skittles Lars39 Mar 2014 #23

aw hell yes Skittles Mar 2014 #37

I've seen something like this before: Whisp Mar 2014 #194

You are the one maliciously questioning the validity of the book. Lars39 Mar 2014 #196

If someone doesn't check their facts on Two known different 'stories' Whisp Mar 2014 #198

LOL You are questioning the validity of the facts in one of the books Lars39 Mar 2014 #201

It's not the crime, it's the cover up Whisp Mar 2014 #222

You*Continuing* to try to hurt someone's livelihood is *still* goddammed low. Lars39 Mar 2014 #228

... Whisp Mar 2014 #230

Ya'll have enacted a scorched earth policy. No excuse for that. Lars39 Mar 2014 #244

Did Will ask for advice to resolve the situation? CJCRANE Mar 2014 #25

No, no advice, just ridicule and figurative spitting in his face. cui bono Mar 2014 #32

I provided a ton of advice theboss Mar 2014 #113

Again, I'm not talking about Pitt's OP. I'm sure there was advice there. cui bono Mar 2014 #283

Yes. Advice. Will acknowledges the advice he received here enabled him to get the meds she needed. stevenleser Mar 2014 #277

I'm not talking about Pitt's thread. I'm sure there was advice there. cui bono Mar 2014 #280

So, let me get this straight. Will is allowed to be angry and spout off, but no one else is? stevenleser Mar 2014 #285

Where did I say that? cui bono Mar 2014 #293

All of your comments in this OP suggest it. stevenleser Mar 2014 #296

They can be angry, but their OP is a personal and insensitive attack. cui bono Mar 2014 #297

And you continue to defend one person for posting angry rants and attack another. stevenleser Mar 2014 #299

Where did I defend him? I'm merely stating the difference in the two. cui bono Mar 2014 #300

NONE of this excuses that OP Skittles Mar 2014 #36

Will's angry OP, or the other angry OP? nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #288

look Skittles Mar 2014 #290

The other angry OP had a S/O that was saved by Obamacare. I can understand both being stevenleser Mar 2014 #292

This message was self-deleted by its author Lars39 Mar 2014 #307

It's not the timing, its the hypocrisy. One person with sick S/O OK to rant, another not. stevenleser Mar 2014 #313

I don't know why I'm suprised, but I am. Lars39 Mar 2014 #316

done here Skittles Mar 2014 #325

What is the OP whose S/O got her meds angry about? cui bono Mar 2014 #312

And they were demanding to know every last thing about his wife's medical condition, LeftyMom Mar 2014 #34

+1. pacalo Mar 2014 #45

I found that aspect of it extremely distasteful and unsettling. nt City Lights Mar 2014 #91

Do you want to know why knowing the name of the medicine would be helpful? theboss Mar 2014 #115

Exactly as you call it. n/t truedelphi Mar 2014 #276

and several people continue to disparage his work, his reputation. grasswire Mar 2014 #121

Last time I saw that here was Freepers messing with Andy. Lars39 Mar 2014 #193

oh, that hit me like a sock in the gut... grasswire Mar 2014 #323

Sorry, grasswire. Lars39 Mar 2014 #324

few hides... Scout Mar 2014 #204

That is not rare nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #246

Last night, my toddler died hotrod0808 Mar 2014 #39

~ Lars39 Mar 2014 #41

... Skittles Mar 2014 #42

My heart goes out to you... pacalo Mar 2014 #44

I am so sorry for your terrible loss. My only granddaughter died of SIDS a few years ago... Hekate Mar 2014 #48

Hekate Number23 Mar 2014 #287

Just when I'm about to give up on DU (again)...Thanks... Hekate Mar 2014 #294

I am so sorry, hotrod0808. pnwmom Mar 2014 #49

+1. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #52

hugs Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #54

Oh, hotrod! Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #60

I'm so very sorry, hotrod0808. City Lights Mar 2014 #63

...so so sorry... progressoid Mar 2014 #72

I'm so sorry for your loss, and grateful for your wise words Autumn Mar 2014 #88

I can't even image your grief and sorrow. myrna minx Mar 2014 #107

So very sorry for your loss, hotrod! Amaril Mar 2014 #118

I am so sorry for your loss. undeterred Mar 2014 #119

so sorry to hear this, take care of yourself nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #124

Shit LittleBlue Mar 2014 #137

{{{hugs}}} nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #143

My heart goes out to you. 840high Mar 2014 #181

I'm so sorry for your tragic loss. JohnnyLib2 Mar 2014 #232

So sorry Beaverhausen Mar 2014 #241

omg... I'm so sorry. cui bono Mar 2014 #256

"Be kind to your fellow man, because tomorrow is not promised to anyone." Wise words Number23 Mar 2014 #282

That says it all. freshwest Mar 2014 #330

I am so sorry for your great loss hotrod irisblue Mar 2014 #306

that is absolutely shattering news renate Mar 2014 #318

Good post. QuestForSense Mar 2014 #40

The disregard for Will's raw feelings about his wife's predicament was hard to read. pacalo Mar 2014 #43

Amen to that. Some remarks were appalling. madfloridian Mar 2014 #183

There is no glee over illness. Instead there were dozens of posters trying to find a solution... Hekate Mar 2014 #46

my take was similar to yours steve2470 Mar 2014 #47

Excellent Post, Hekate.. Thank you. Cha Mar 2014 #51

+1,000,000 Nine Mar 2014 #53

+1 treestar Mar 2014 #81

Wow.. I'm glad you commented on this, Nine.. thank you. Cha Mar 2014 #298

Wisely spoken. Thanks for being compassionate and seeing the point. n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #331

Nailed it!!! Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #61

+ 1000 JoePhilly Mar 2014 #73

+100000000000000000 treestar Mar 2014 #79

Thanks for citing me theboss Mar 2014 #96

you did a wonderful job of helping Will steve2470 Mar 2014 #122

You're welcome Hekate Mar 2014 #218

I hesitate to kick this thread yet again, but here goes. LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #247

"truth-seeking journalist".. yeah.. about Cha Mar 2014 #301

Nearly 9 hours since your excellent response the OP and their supporters haven't addressed your post stevenleser Mar 2014 #191

Agreed. nt Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #215

let me add my ++++ Whisp Mar 2014 #227

Well said! You have eloquently and respectfully stated what happened and... Spazito Mar 2014 #245

No, there was an OP that was very mean spirited that offered no advice, just spite. cui bono Mar 2014 #259

Even that gross distortion is light years different from what you alleged in the OP stevenleser Mar 2014 #268

This post made this OP a mildly interesting read. Thanks to you CJCrane, theBoss and a few others Number23 Mar 2014 #281

Thanks for posting exactly what was needed sunnystarr Mar 2014 #295

The behavior is akin to... ReRe Mar 2014 #50

It's personal, opportunistic, creepy and cultist. jsr Mar 2014 #64

Reminds me of the BOrG chasing after Picard seveneyes Mar 2014 #78

hahahahahahahahahaha You are funny! VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #153

It's the sort of thing Scientologists do. QC Mar 2014 #90

I haven't seen what I feel is people taking glee in his situation mythology Mar 2014 #55

Neither have I. The OP clearly sided with Will and is not trying to shame bluestate10 Mar 2014 #317

Horseshit Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #56

You keep accusing me of shit and whenever I ask for you to provide evidence you disappear. cui bono Mar 2014 #257

What part of "dishonest representation of events" Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #266

There is a thread about someone's gf getting their meds without emotion cui bono Mar 2014 #273

Hardly "gleeful" Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #275

What do you mean "what the hell is this?" cui bono Mar 2014 #279

See post #46 and self-delete BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #57

'Cause he said bad things about Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #59

Similar to the Wraith waking up in the hive ships seveneyes Mar 2014 #80

Yup. truebrit71 Mar 2014 #108

Everything Will said in his rant was wrong theboss Mar 2014 #110

Uh huh... truebrit71 Mar 2014 #111

Ok. Let's break it down theboss Mar 2014 #129

You're wasting your time there..... Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #159

That's the best analogy I've ever heard for it. woo me with science Mar 2014 #155

Yes - I skip all 840high Mar 2014 #182

So does everyone else. Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #186

I don't see any blue links Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #236

And the flight nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #211

Cheerleaders gonna cheer seveneyes Mar 2014 #62

It's really disgusting. City Lights Mar 2014 #66

What glee? Where do you get off accusing people of that? treestar Mar 2014 #67

Damn. Well said. randome Mar 2014 #71

thanks randome treestar Mar 2014 #77

"you people" ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #109

"you people"? grasswire Mar 2014 #163

People who do not believe that the president is seated at the right hand of the Father QC Mar 2014 #173

world without end, amen nt grasswire Mar 2014 #177

No. That rant was like a Koch Bros. Anti ACA commercial Whisp Mar 2014 #68

I wonder if there's a treatment for written 'tourette's syndrome'. randome Mar 2014 #74

This is what happens ... JoePhilly Mar 2014 #87

+1. n/t FSogol Mar 2014 #94

This Real Person . . . ProfessorGAC Mar 2014 #75

You have MS Boudica the Lyoness Mar 2014 #185

Don't Understand Your Reply ProfessorGAC Mar 2014 #192

I think the reference was to spouses Hekate Mar 2014 #237

It was an ill-informed rant theboss Mar 2014 #82

("For the record.. Cha Mar 2014 #304

Not that at all, it is all about getting Will banned and when it doesn't happen Rex Mar 2014 #83

^^^^ grasswire Mar 2014 #166

The only rant I saw was Will's own. Period. nt Hekate Mar 2014 #226

Oh I guess you missed the hidden post then. Rex Mar 2014 #229

>shrug< Will was allowed to rant, and it was all out there. Hekate Mar 2014 #238

Yep and some members on MIRT were allowed to rant as well. Rex Mar 2014 #239

Where is your evidence that there was anyone 'gleeful' Whisp Mar 2014 #84

Here ... I found it. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #86

Blaming the President because his wife needs an.... Walk away Mar 2014 #85

Medicare for all is marketing to attract folks familiar and accepting of Medicare as a jumping off TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #197

Someone else said it best - American Idol Glitterati Mar 2014 #95

Will is a grown man and does this crap all the time theboss Mar 2014 #97

What he didn't need was the animosity Glitterati Mar 2014 #98

I told him how to fix the problem theboss Mar 2014 #99

Pitt needed a hug? No, he needed facts & advice, which he got DESPITE his vile OP which was KittyWampus Mar 2014 #161

That poster is all over the place... Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #174

You may be right theboss Mar 2014 #178

Cheerleaders and sycophants can't help themselves... truebrit71 Mar 2014 #103

It's people who say "My President" versus people who say "the President". Iggo Mar 2014 #105

Versus people who say "Dear Leader" nt Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #205

I thought it was silly when Junior's supporters adoringly City Lights Mar 2014 #217

"The President" is actually correct when referring to . . . brush Mar 2014 #303

Every one of our Presidents is "My President", regardless of whether I agree bluestate10 Mar 2014 #319

I use "the President", but I get you. They're all my presidents. Even Dim Son. Iggo Mar 2014 #322

masks are off bobduca Mar 2014 #106

Shameless strawman demagoguery. What utter bullshit this is. redqueen Mar 2014 #112

Par for the course, no? Number23 Mar 2014 #286

What's with the lying? jeff47 Mar 2014 #125

I will say that I had insurance from my job Autumn Mar 2014 #130

You may not have heard of them jeff47 Mar 2014 #139

I may need to research this, but I also think pharmacies and physicians will sometimes work together theboss Mar 2014 #144

Yep, that's what happened in my particular case. jeff47 Mar 2014 #146

I think it is automatic with generics in some instances theboss Mar 2014 #171

"Changes mandated by the ACA make the appeal process much shorter and easier." redqueen Mar 2014 #149

I have dealt with Formularies and my drugs aren't expensive. nt bluestate10 Mar 2014 #320

DU is a good place to learn things. n/t Autumn Mar 2014 #321

Yeh, we forgot to close the flaps on the Big Tent before the RWers snuck in. nt Zorra Mar 2014 #128

It's disgusting, isn't it? Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #136

It's what right wingers do n/t Oilwellian Mar 2014 #138

Let's be clear...and It's Troll behavior Lars39 Mar 2014 #141

Oh please. Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #162

I call 'em as I see 'em. Lars39 Mar 2014 #167

With bizarre repetition Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #170

It's identifying he problem. Lars39 Mar 2014 #172

That would be continuing to spread misinformation after the facts are known. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #168

It would also be going after his liveilhood, which now seems to be the chosen scum sucking method Lars39 Mar 2014 #179

"His livelihood"? Hekate Mar 2014 #234

Uh, huh. Lars39 Mar 2014 #240

I set my Bullshit Meter contraption up to your post and Whisp Mar 2014 #150

I don't know what all these posts are about, Beacool Mar 2014 #165

What a dumb, misleading thread LordGlenconner Mar 2014 #169

I challenge you to identify even one post where anyone was gleeful over his wife's suffering. tarheelsunc Mar 2014 #175

That's because they don't exist. Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #203

Thank you - in my book 840high Mar 2014 #176

What glee? DanTex Mar 2014 #180

It is textbook bully behavior nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #187

I don't believe I have ever witnessed so much hero worship among adults DrDan Mar 2014 #189

What dishonest claptrap Egnever Mar 2014 #190

This has nothing to do with correcting information. cui bono Mar 2014 #199

Just Silly ProfessorGAC Mar 2014 #209

I don't think you know the OP to which I'm referring. cui bono Mar 2014 #225

Then We Disagree ProfessorGAC Mar 2014 #333

not sure I get the connection DrDan Mar 2014 #242

Answer ProfessorGAC Mar 2014 #334

"correct misinformation" - what a cute way of expressing what went on here for the past day or so DrDan Mar 2014 #220

talk about hero worship. Whisp Mar 2014 #195

my hero? why would you say that? have I ever expressed that? DrDan Mar 2014 #224

yes, there does seem to be a lot of hero worship of Pitt around here n/t Scout Mar 2014 #207

there is? He was "visibly upset" due to what he perceived as a lack of help for his wife and DrDan Mar 2014 #231

didn't say it was you Scout Mar 2014 #267

Oh yes we have nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #214

yeah - you are correct DrDan Mar 2014 #233

It is poisonous to democracy nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #235

we are a case study for that DrDan Mar 2014 #243

Nor have I of sycophancy from a certain clique . . . brush Mar 2014 #308

Agree, those threads are sick. I can't believe how cruel and insensitive people are. n/t MadrasT Mar 2014 #200

This is what DU has become. RetroLounge Mar 2014 #208

What a disingenious heading in the OP Sheepshank Mar 2014 #213

Apparently those posts are all over the place Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #223

they besmirched their idol? Puzzledtraveller Mar 2014 #216

pretty much Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #251

LOL Puzzledtraveller Mar 2014 #302

here's a bit more of pretty much: Whisp Mar 2014 #335

You might as well talk to the wind Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #336

If I had to guess, it had something to do with calling Obama a "Piece of shit used car salesman" Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #248

I don't get it, either Aerows Mar 2014 #250

I'm guessing (against the inevitable protestations to the contrary) LanternWaste Mar 2014 #253

but they're bragging about being WRONG MisterP Mar 2014 #264

Who admitted they were wrong? (nt) Nine Mar 2014 #265

Where's the correction? (nt) jeff47 Mar 2014 #289

I don't care what was going on, coming to a Democratic board and telling a Democratic President OregonBlue Mar 2014 #269

Where's the glee? pnwmom Mar 2014 #271

Think a happy thought, sprinkle pixie dust on your head, follow Peter Pan and you might get to where stevenleser Mar 2014 #274

Well, here is the answer I got..... Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #328

come on, this didn't happen because of a simple criticism of the President. It happened because lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #305

Don't attempt to distort the debate that took place. bluestate10 Mar 2014 #311

The phoniest o.p. since Shrub invaded Iraq n/t UTUSN Mar 2014 #327