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In reply to the discussion: Does the Big Bang breakthrough offer proof of God? [View all]politicman
(710 posts)'You just made a completely nonsensical statement. If there was no time, there was no "before." Simple as that.'
In your earlier comment you said the words 'This included space time, though operating by vastly different mechanics than what we know now.' So when I say that time and space AS WE KNOW IT started with the beginning of the universe, your very own words in your earlier post agree with me. So I an stunned why you would back off that now.
Whether there was space time operating by vastly different mechanics is not the point, the point is that there was some sort of time before our space and time came into existence.
'I'm willing to believe the former because that's what people with a lot more experience than me in their respective fields understand about it based on the evidence.'
Yes people with a lot more experience than me and you say they understand it, but have any of these people delved into and answered the question of where 'the forces that condensed to create the universe' came from?
Unfortunately if one were to ask that simple question, people like you and those you respect laugh them out of the room without answering attempting to answer a legitimate question.
If something needs a beginning or the conditions for it to start its existence, then where did those conditions come from?
'No, that's what we have right now. A century ago quantum mechanics would have been laughed out of the room, but with advances in technology, it's becoming more accepted. Do you have any evidence that Newtonian or quantum mechanics aren't going to be sufficient? If so, you may want to tell the scientific community.'
Yes we can develop any set of physics that you think we could ever develop, and yet we still wont be able to answer the fundamental question of where the conditions that started of the original process came from.
Why do I say that you ask?
Because no matter how much we explain, there will always be that question of 'where did the conditions before that come from?'. This is an infinite question so it can never be answered, don't you see.
'The only answer I can give to you is that I don't know. And that you just used that illogical concept of "before the Big Bang" yet again. '
Whats so illogical about it? Either there were conditions before the big bang that led to the process of the big bang or there was a big bang before 'our' big bang that led to the process.
Either way, the big bang needed the conditions to be able to happen, those conditions could be forces that we don't understand, but the point is they were present for the big bang to occur.
So where did they come from?
Lastly as to your last points, I don't believe in the big bang, but anyway that asks me to and wants to force my children to learn all about the big bang as a theory of how we came into being, better have all the answer before they try that.
Don't force my children to have an education where the big bang and evolution are the correct answers when you don't yet have the full answers yourself.
Believing in god is the same as believing in something that can never be explained, for the big bang to occur there had to be the raw materials that condensed to create that bang, for those raw materials to exists there had to be something before that and so on.