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In reply to the discussion: Duty to retreat vs stand your ground and castle laws: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater [View all]Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)31. Wow! Just Wow! Killing an unarmed teen with no legal ramifications is the "bathwater"?
And the very best case for the baby you can make is some completely unrelated case of a drunk woman who shot her husband?
Here's the flaws in your arguments:
Now there's a frenzy to get rid of "stand your ground." But there is a serious problem with the standard legal alternative"duty to retreat." It elevates violent criminals over the law-abiding and innocent.
Sorry, but this just demonstrates binary thinking. It suggests that there are only two alternatives, which is pretty much the idiotic mindset which gives us these idiotic laws in the first place. The shooting of Trayvon Martin is an excellent example of why the Florida law in particular (as well as some others) are failures. They allow people like Zimmerman to shoot unarmed people with no criminal or civil repercussions whatsoever. Furthermore, Trayvon Martin is almost undoubtedly not the only victim of this piss-poor law in Florida alone.
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/20/deaths-nearly-triple-since-stand-your-ground-enacted/
If you do not yield to the criminal, if you defend yourself from an unjustified assault and kill or injure him, you will face charges, lawsuits, or imprisonment. Even if you did not see a safe escape path, your judgment will be second-guessed by a safe, warm, comfortable jury.
You're really trying to suggest that every case of self defense results in "charges, lawsuits, or imprisonment" without these laws? I beg to differ. Believe it or not, thousands of cases of self defense resulted in no charges or lawsuits being filed, years before the Dirty Harry bullshit laws were enacted. In fact, cases where someone was prosecuted for failure to retreat are exceedingly rare, and generally always involve extenuating circumstances just like the very poor example you provided.
People who oppose "stand your ground" often portray it as being an ego-driven, macho policy. But the legitimate principle is freedom.
They suggest that because that's exactly what it is. The Florida law was driven by the NRA, which is the epicenter of "ego-driven, macho policy". If your definition of "freedom" includes the right to deprive someone else of theirs including the most basic right of life itself, I'll have to say that your definition diverges considerably from mine.
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Duty to retreat vs stand your ground and castle laws: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater [View all]
TPaine7
Mar 2012
OP
That's not true. Most confrontations will not go to "kill or be killed" without graduation.
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#14
I don't think that the Stand your ground law prevents a jury from determining
JDPriestly
Mar 2012
#12
The essential issue in self-defense as I understand it (and I was not a specialist in
JDPriestly
Mar 2012
#61
'Reasonableness' gets evaluated all the way up the legal ladder.. not all go to a jury.
X_Digger
Mar 2012
#63
"These states uphold castle doctrine in general, ... but... may enforce a duty to retreat"
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#24
Do you also believe that the idea of innocent people in prison in cases totally unrelated to this
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#38
The case was from before the 2005 change, so comparing 2005 and 2011 is irrelevant. n/t
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#75
I don't see why everyone who agrees with gun rights is AUTOMATICALLY an NRA member
TeamsterDem
Mar 2012
#37
I am not a member, nor have I ever given them a penny, though I almost contributed after Katrina.
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#39
I think I'll stand my ground and won't allow your made up bullshit and histrionics to make me leave.
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#45
I think Florida's SYG law and even their Castle Law need revision. There also needs to be education
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#51
The duty to retreat is a duty to obey a criminal who orders you to flee coupled with a threat
TPaine7
Apr 2012
#90
The bottom line is that he can dismiss you from any public space, simply by offering you violence.
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#48
Wow! Just Wow! Killing an unarmed teen with no legal ramifications is the "bathwater"?
Major Nikon
Mar 2012
#31
Perhaps you can read, but I'm seriously doubting your ability to comprehend
Major Nikon
Mar 2012
#66
I skimmed over your post and failed to find anything that addresses the examples I gave
Major Nikon
Apr 2012
#95
The false assumption is that without the shoot first law, people go to jail for defending themselves
Major Nikon
Mar 2012
#72
Thanks for your thoughtul response. I agree that the law needs change and that all violent deaths
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#59
Actually I started to say "arrested" but decided that in all cases that is not justified
csziggy
Mar 2012
#65