General Discussion

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)

63. 'Reasonableness' gets evaluated all the way up the legal ladder.. not all go to a jury.

Sun Mar 25, 2012, 11:10 PM

Mar 2012

Based on the information the cops provide the DA/State's Attorney, he may choose not to prosecute- either because he doesn't think the case will stand up, or because he thinks it's justified.

Even if the State's Attorney chooses to prosecute and takes it before a Grand Jury, the GJ may not agree, and may refuse to indict.

A judge could issue a summary judgement, releasing the defendant.

So there are a couple of extra steps between the incident and a criminal jury. Any one of those steps could be the end for a particular case. Just because it didn't go all the way to a criminal jury doesn't mean that the 'reasonableness' wasn't examined.

I agree with your last paragraph- if anything, it could be switched around. The fact that the Sanford PD is hiding behind this law just makes me wonder how corrupt they really are.

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Duty to retreat vs stand your ground and castle laws: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater [View all] TPaine7 Mar 2012 OP

I was looking at CNN CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #1

If that pans out, it should take the wind out of some very emotional sails. n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #6

Doesn't surprise me guitar man Mar 2012 #16

... Electric Monk Mar 2012 #2

Ha-ha. That's funny. n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #4

Good one! lol Little Star Mar 2012 #5

Yep. I made a post about this very thing a couple of days ago......... socialist_n_TN Mar 2012 #8

That's not true. Most confrontations will not go to "kill or be killed" without graduation. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #14

I've been reading up on the castle doctrine.... Little Star Mar 2012 #3

unfortunately, the wiki article is totally false iverglas Mar 2012 #85

Great post, TPaine7! Suich Mar 2012 #7

Thanks! n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #9

One thing to note, a point that I've been making.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #10

A a very welcome analysis of the tragedy and its possible aftermath.. shrdlu Mar 2012 #11

I don't think that the Stand your ground law prevents a jury from determining JDPriestly Mar 2012 #12

I'm not sure I take your meaning. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #13

The essential issue in self-defense as I understand it (and I was not a specialist in JDPriestly Mar 2012 #61

'Reasonableness' gets evaluated all the way up the legal ladder.. not all go to a jury. X_Digger Mar 2012 #63

When I wrote this and other posts on DU, I had not seen the new law. JDPriestly Mar 2012 #78

"This law invites bullying"--how? TPaine7 Apr 2012 #93

Because people always perceive themselves to be the victim. JDPriestly Apr 2012 #96

"It elevates violent criminals over the law-abiding and innocent." ellisonz Mar 2012 #15

If it's bullshit, why didn't you bother to refute it? TPaine7 Mar 2012 #17

I did refute it... ellisonz Mar 2012 #18

Yawn. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #19

I'll take that as concession. n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #20

Your reverent attitude towards authority is unjustified... TPaine7 Mar 2012 #22

I'll listen to someone who has done his homework and has exerptise... ellisonz Mar 2012 #50

As long as he's saying exactly what you want him to... n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #58

+1 Skip Intro Mar 2012 #21

Bullshit alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #23

"These states uphold castle doctrine in general, ... but... may enforce a duty to retreat" TPaine7 Mar 2012 #24

This is only a list alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #25

Here's the case of a woman who didn't flee her home was convicted of murder TPaine7 Mar 2012 #26

Oh my alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #27

"as you would have seen if you bothered to read past the first page." TPaine7 Mar 2012 #32

Because of all the massive jury awards handed out to alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #34

Do you also believe that the idea of innocent people in prison in cases totally unrelated to this TPaine7 Mar 2012 #38

Of course there are innocent people in prison alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #40

My point was striclty an analogy: TPaine7 Mar 2012 #47

You view it differently alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #64

Not exactly TPaine7 Mar 2012 #71

Apparently you didn't read the Florida law very well Major Nikon Mar 2012 #67

Hey, thanks for that alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #68

As I said, the Florida law has been updated. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #70

The law was written in 2005 and that section hasn't changed Major Nikon Mar 2012 #74

The case was from before the 2005 change, so comparing 2005 and 2011 is irrelevant. n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #75

Let's review, shall we? Major Nikon Mar 2012 #79

+1 K & R L0oniX Mar 2012 #62

I don't think the purpose of a duty to retreat is as you've stated it treestar Mar 2012 #28

Purpose? No. Effect? Absolutely. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #29

Absolutely correct Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #30

You made that up out of whole cloth, I'll bet. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #33

I don't see why everyone who agrees with gun rights is AUTOMATICALLY an NRA member TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #37

I am not a member, nor have I ever given them a penny, though I almost contributed after Katrina. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #39

I agree TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #43

Right. I just made it up, or maybe you made it up Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #41

I think I'll stand my ground and won't allow your made up bullshit and histrionics to make me leave. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #45

Honestly, I think you're OK, personally, on SYG Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #49

I think Florida's SYG law and even their Castle Law need revision. There also needs to be education TPaine7 Mar 2012 #51

Good. I'm glad to hear that. nt. Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #54

You're entitled to your opinion but not your own facts treestar Mar 2012 #88

The duty to retreat is a duty to obey a criminal who orders you to flee coupled with a threat TPaine7 Apr 2012 #90

The bottom line is that he can dismiss you from any public space, simply by offering you violence. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #48

No one is losing any "legal right to be there." treestar Mar 2012 #87

Wow! Just Wow! Killing an unarmed teen with no legal ramifications is the "bathwater"? Major Nikon Mar 2012 #31

No, the issues with Florida law are the bathwater. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #36

Your attempts at defending this very bad law are extremely weak Major Nikon Mar 2012 #46

No, I didn't read your link. I read the law. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #53

Perhaps you can read, but I'm seriously doubting your ability to comprehend Major Nikon Mar 2012 #66

Let me see if I can break this down. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #80

You failed miserably at trying to break it down Major Nikon Mar 2012 #82

True, I did fail to break it down far enough for you. TPaine7 Apr 2012 #89

I skimmed over your post and failed to find anything that addresses the examples I gave Major Nikon Apr 2012 #95

A unarmed person can kill you or put you in the hospital ... spin Mar 2012 #69

The false assumption is that without the shoot first law, people go to jail for defending themselves Major Nikon Mar 2012 #72

+1000 ellisonz Mar 2012 #73

That's why I expressed my opinion that the law should be rewritten ... spin Mar 2012 #77

The law should be abolished Major Nikon Mar 2012 #81

Under the system I propose ... spin Mar 2012 #86

That is precisely the problem, or at least one of them TPaine7 Apr 2012 #91

I agree with you on much, yet I still don't like "stand your ground" TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #35

Thanks for your feedback. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #44

Fair enough TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #55

We almost totally agree TPaine7 Mar 2012 #56

You're right, we've got about a 98% agreement TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #76

Seriously ProSense Mar 2012 #42

"It elevates violent criminals over the law-abiding and innocent" Major Nikon Mar 2012 #52

The problem with the law as being used by Florida law enforcement csziggy Mar 2012 #57

Thanks for your thoughtul response. I agree that the law needs change and that all violent deaths TPaine7 Mar 2012 #59

Actually I started to say "arrested" but decided that in all cases that is not justified csziggy Mar 2012 #65

Thank you for this outstanding OP. K & R Edweird Mar 2012 #60

Zimmerman will be acquitted, due to SYG. caseymoz Mar 2012 #83

I seriously doubt it. His story appears to be falling apart. The voice crying for help wasn't his, TPaine7 Apr 2012 #92

That's the baby? caseymoz Apr 2012 #94

what purpose is served by posting identical OPs in two forums? iverglas Mar 2012 #84

Nice post TPaine Logical Apr 2012 #97