General Discussion

steve2470

(37,481 posts)

52. there's so much deal-making and horse-trading that goes on to get bills passed

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 07:07 PM

Mar 2014

Yes, some bills are wildly popular and pass with no arm-twisting. ACA was NOT that way. Congress is no place for purists, unless you just want to be a bombthrower (which we at DU love including me). Obama's always had a reputation as a deal-maker for years, playing poker and cutting deals. One can frown at that kind of activity, but that, more or less, is how Congress functions. You give me this, I give you that, we're both sort of happy. That's why very little has gotten done in the last few years, because the asshole teabaggers want it 100% their way.

LBJ could literally yell in people's faces back in the 1960's, but you can't do that any more, definitely not in public.

Would I have loved for America's version of the NHS to get passed ? HELL YES. However, it was NOT possible. I know many on this board vehemently disagree with me, but we'll have to agree to disagree. NHS was partially born out of the devastation of World War II (if I read history correctly). The Brits here can correct me on that.

Give me 5% towards the final goal. Next year give me another 5%. After a while, you get 100% or damn near close to it.

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If you think that the Congress in 2009/2010 would have passed Single Payer legislation [View all] Yavin4 Mar 2014 OP

I think most are the latter... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #1

+1 n/t FSogol Mar 2014 #17

Manny will be alerting on this thread in 3, 2, 1 ... TexasTowelie Mar 2014 #2

Manny don't have the guts to state their actual agenda rufus dog Mar 2014 #106

If the Party properly supported LaMont's run, there is no Lieberman. 1000words Mar 2014 #3

OMGZ OBSTACLES!!! redqueen Mar 2014 #23

Union locals came out for Lieberman, big time. Ikonoklast Mar 2014 #26

The machine decided it was better off with Lieberman 1000words Mar 2014 #27

There was a primary was there not? treestar Mar 2014 #55

You are aware that Lieberman lost his primary and ran as an Independent? LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #81

Didn't he pull the Republican vote? n/t sweetloukillbot Mar 2014 #105

You decide. LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #108

well, I know some progressive party activists and they pretty much turned it around CTyankee Mar 2014 #136

Good point about single payer. Also, the public option didn't even make it out of committee Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #4

It didn't make it our of committee because they arrested people that brought Single Payer up. RC Mar 2014 #128

K&R. Well put. Whisp Mar 2014 #5

Suppressing the vote comes to mind... Skidmore Mar 2014 #8

+1 sheshe2 Mar 2014 #30

+2 Historic NY Mar 2014 #101

Yes, the timing is especially curious. nt Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #132

Indeed. nt redqueen Mar 2014 #24

Yup, Lieberman and other blue dogs weren't having it. JaneyVee Mar 2014 #6

Sanders: Single Payer Never Had A Chance (2010) ProSense Mar 2014 #7

Silly Sanders. All he had to do was read DU and he wouldn't have made that statement!!1!(one)!! Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #9

Sanders: "it would have had 8-10 votes" DCBob Mar 2014 #12

Yes, clearly "progressives" like Sanders are just sensible woodchucks. redqueen Mar 2014 #29

Because it was kept out of the process! grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #88

Including it in the process would've changed NOTHING. phleshdef Mar 2014 #93

You're reversing cause and effect there Recursion Mar 2014 #107

Lieberman single handedly stopped lowering the Medicare age Warpy Mar 2014 #10

Yet, without him, you don't have a filibuster-proof majority Yavin4 Mar 2014 #20

Yes, the ACA passed in the Senate without a single vote to spare (60). PoliticAverse Mar 2014 #11

That was just the Senate version. The ProSense Mar 2014 #15

That was a different bill, separate from the original ACA. You could call it 'ACA part II' or PoliticAverse Mar 2014 #28

No, the health care law was part of the joint bill. ProSense Mar 2014 #31

Um, right. As I pointed out it was a separate bill that modified the original ACA. n/t PoliticAverse Mar 2014 #33

Yes, and from Wiki ProSense Mar 2014 #35

The Wikipedia page on the second bill highlights the modifications... PoliticAverse Mar 2014 #38

"Joint bill" is a bit of a misnomer. cheapdate Mar 2014 #67

All you are demonstrating is that we have bad politicians in our caucus. JVS Mar 2014 #13

Why didn't better candidates mobilize that 70% to win their nominations? JoePhilly Mar 2014 #41

Amen sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #46

70% is an illusion loyalsister Mar 2014 #71

AMEN ... MindMover Mar 2014 #102

And the weakness of party leaders who couldn't figure out a way to get the coalition. morningfog Mar 2014 #115

No. Harry Reid could have ended the filibuster rule any time he wanted, as long as at least Zorra Mar 2014 #14

Bernie Sanders said single payer would have had only 8 to 10 votes and that's it Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #16

I don't think that's quite accurate. cheapdate Mar 2014 #65

Yes, it is accurate. Here: Zorra Mar 2014 #69

Okay, yes on your statement, but why do so many here ignore the truedelphi Mar 2014 #18

K & R. Well said. n/t FSogol Mar 2014 #19

David Swanson on DU, Wed Dec-24-08 11:18 AM Zorra Mar 2014 #21

K&FuckinR! redqueen Mar 2014 #22

Not the problem that us "haters" have with how things were handled in 09/10. Dawgs Mar 2014 #25

K&R! sheshe2 Mar 2014 #32

Your OP saps morale of potentional democratic activists. cui bono Mar 2014 #34

We must be the "Paulbots" mentioned in the OP 1000words Mar 2014 #36

Undoubtedly. It's a good dogwhistle though. cui bono Mar 2014 #37

Ok, let's do that. jeff47 Mar 2014 #42

If humane healthcare for all sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #49

The issue is a difference in definition. jeff47 Mar 2014 #70

Nothing of the kind. sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #119

Then provide any evidence that it would work. jeff47 Mar 2014 #124

You just provided it. sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #130

10-90. That's not a "minority and rightist" problem. jeff47 Mar 2014 #131

Again, that states the problem: sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #137

I don't know what your point is. Honestly. cui bono Mar 2014 #56

I really don't know why the question is so hard to answer. jeff47 Mar 2014 #72

I apologize. I didn't see that specific question and I really didn't understand what you were cui bono Mar 2014 #74

Do I need to link the definition for "specific"? jeff47 Mar 2014 #125

Do you expect me to write the speeches they should have given? cui bono Mar 2014 #138

No, I expect you to provide a mechanism that can actually get Lieberman's vote. jeff47 Mar 2014 #139

If you never try for something you'll never know if you can get it or not. cui bono Mar 2014 #140

You know, you can just say "I have no idea how to get his vote". jeff47 Mar 2014 #141

Or you could just say "I reduce everything you said to something you didn't say". cui bono Mar 2014 #142

I've spotted folks every bluedog as a YES, and asked them to describe how ... JoePhilly Mar 2014 #39

Apparently Obama was supposed to "try". jeff47 Mar 2014 #43

One suggested threatening to cut support JoePhilly Mar 2014 #50

The fuck? Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #109

DU continues its descent into divisive self immolation.... mike_c Mar 2014 #40

What does anyone think is going get a single payer system? Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #44

ACA barely passed Congress as it was steve2470 Mar 2014 #45

Bingo Steve Trust Buster Mar 2014 #48

there's so much deal-making and horse-trading that goes on to get bills passed steve2470 Mar 2014 #52

Ah being called an "extremist" for advocating what Iraq and Afganistan have setup under US control bobduca Mar 2014 #75

? ? ? ? ? Trust Buster Mar 2014 #77

single-payer advocates are "extremists", your words, own them bobduca Mar 2014 #78

That's right, steve.. they were begging dennis kucinich and he helped Cha Mar 2014 #54

Exactly! Andy823 Mar 2014 #61

who said they thought that stupidicus Mar 2014 #47

I've seen so many whining that canard.. It's all Obama fault. Cha Mar 2014 #51

hear, hear treestar Mar 2014 #53

If you think we the people were represented by no possibility of it whatsoever, I have a bridge to mother earth Mar 2014 #57

You are wrong Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #68

TY for that correction. mother earth Mar 2014 #118

The single-payer whiners never bother to mention how it would be paid for. bornskeptic Mar 2014 #58

"whiners" bobduca Mar 2014 #79

BS - go to pnhp.org 10,000+ doctors for single payer? SP is cheaper than the ACA. grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #91

That's a pretty good hippie punch and a blame the left thing to say TransitJohn Mar 2014 #59

The public option couldn't even make it out of committee. nt Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #110

Oy vey. eom TransitJohn Mar 2014 #114

You are 100 percent right madokie Mar 2014 #60

Who has said this? What was possible but never even advocated was the Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #62

Good grief. Not another one. rhett o rick Mar 2014 #63

Reality. cheapdate Mar 2014 #64

Not to mention the fact that ACA opens the door ecstatic Mar 2014 #66

Here is an excellent 1 hour long PBS documentary...... Trust Buster Mar 2014 #73

That they got anything at all passed is rather remarkable. CBHagman Mar 2014 #76

Facts don't matter Yavin4 Mar 2014 #83

joementum and stuff bobduca Mar 2014 #80

"JOEMENTUM WASNT WITH US!!" Yavin4 Mar 2014 #82

What other legislation was dead in the water without Joementum? bobduca Mar 2014 #84

What? Yavin4 Mar 2014 #85

Joe was a horrible, fifth-columnist, third-way shitheel bobduca Mar 2014 #86

there was real ignorance of CT Dems and the general voting population in CT in 2006 CTyankee Mar 2014 #123

Thank you for that! (voting out Joementum) n/t bobduca Mar 2014 #127

If you think there was NOTHING the President of The United States of America had to grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #87

Yes, one fucking Senator who had the power to stop the whole thing... phleshdef Mar 2014 #90

So offer him Sec of State, or something WTF. Politics 101. grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #92

Lieberman ran against Obama, campaigned for McCain and tutored Palin on foreign policy. phleshdef Mar 2014 #94

Then fire him. Just find out what he wants (say bombs for Isreal) and make the deal. One guy... grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #95

You're about as politically realistic as Dick Morris. phleshdef Mar 2014 #96

You believe there is nothing the President of the USA had that Lieberman would have traded his vote grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #97

Yes. Lieberman's ties to the insurance industry were/are a hell of a lot more important to him. phleshdef Mar 2014 #98

President has access to more $ than all the insurers combined. Now you're saying big insurance grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #99

Lieberman's wife is an insurance company lobbyist. phleshdef Mar 2014 #100

In the end, we both agree Leiberman is corrupt. I believe the President had items in his hand grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #143

Max Baucus - the D that had single payer advocates arrested nationalize the fed Mar 2014 #122

LOL Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #111

I'm say ing you offer him SOS, then fire him if he doesn't live up to expectations. In the end, grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #135

That said, we're all working for it now.... Right? grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #89

Of course not. They were well paid by Insurance industry (esp Lieberman) to block single-payer. HooptieWagon Mar 2014 #103

As I stated earlier, this one hour PBS documentary explains a lot. Please give it a try. Trust Buster Mar 2014 #104

+1 yes that is a must see for anyone that wants to know what happened nationalize the fed Mar 2014 #120

Welcome to DU. Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #133

Playing defense scores less ... GeorgeGist Mar 2014 #112

Congress is so out of touch with what the MAJORITY of people B Calm Mar 2014 #113

My 'favorite' post was that SP would have passed because the majority of citizens supported it...LOL DebJ Mar 2014 #116

that has no bearing on the need to include G_j Mar 2014 #117

Seems like a moot point. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #121

So when I order an omelet for breakfast and instead get cold, flavorless oatmeal, I should be happy? Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #126

The problem with my way or the highway was highlighted in 2000. Sometimes one needs to lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #129

"use their time and energy to get progressives elected to congress" Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #134