General Discussion

Major Nikon

(36,925 posts)

79. Let's review, shall we?

Mon Mar 26, 2012, 02:38 AM

Mar 2012

Here is your claim:

If an armed robber comes into your bedroom at night, you are obligated to flee if you safely can. It doesn't matter if you are armed. It doesn't matter if you are innocent. A criminal can dismiss you from your own home.

Here's what you were specifically asked:

Show me any one of the jurisdictions mentioned in the Wikipedia article on whether a state has an explicit Castle statute (because that's what the list was about) where that has or actually would actually happen as you claimed.

So not only did you fail to provide a relevant example from the list, you provided an example from Florida that wouldn't have been changed with or without a shoot first law.

We're still waiting for your example, and so far you haven't provided one.

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Duty to retreat vs stand your ground and castle laws: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater [View all] TPaine7 Mar 2012 OP

I was looking at CNN CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #1

If that pans out, it should take the wind out of some very emotional sails. n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #6

Doesn't surprise me guitar man Mar 2012 #16

... Electric Monk Mar 2012 #2

Ha-ha. That's funny. n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #4

Good one! lol Little Star Mar 2012 #5

Yep. I made a post about this very thing a couple of days ago......... socialist_n_TN Mar 2012 #8

That's not true. Most confrontations will not go to "kill or be killed" without graduation. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #14

I've been reading up on the castle doctrine.... Little Star Mar 2012 #3

unfortunately, the wiki article is totally false iverglas Mar 2012 #85

Great post, TPaine7! Suich Mar 2012 #7

Thanks! n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #9

One thing to note, a point that I've been making.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #10

A a very welcome analysis of the tragedy and its possible aftermath.. shrdlu Mar 2012 #11

I don't think that the Stand your ground law prevents a jury from determining JDPriestly Mar 2012 #12

I'm not sure I take your meaning. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #13

The essential issue in self-defense as I understand it (and I was not a specialist in JDPriestly Mar 2012 #61

'Reasonableness' gets evaluated all the way up the legal ladder.. not all go to a jury. X_Digger Mar 2012 #63

When I wrote this and other posts on DU, I had not seen the new law. JDPriestly Mar 2012 #78

"This law invites bullying"--how? TPaine7 Apr 2012 #93

Because people always perceive themselves to be the victim. JDPriestly Apr 2012 #96

"It elevates violent criminals over the law-abiding and innocent." ellisonz Mar 2012 #15

If it's bullshit, why didn't you bother to refute it? TPaine7 Mar 2012 #17

I did refute it... ellisonz Mar 2012 #18

Yawn. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #19

I'll take that as concession. n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #20

Your reverent attitude towards authority is unjustified... TPaine7 Mar 2012 #22

I'll listen to someone who has done his homework and has exerptise... ellisonz Mar 2012 #50

As long as he's saying exactly what you want him to... n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #58

+1 Skip Intro Mar 2012 #21

Bullshit alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #23

"These states uphold castle doctrine in general, ... but... may enforce a duty to retreat" TPaine7 Mar 2012 #24

This is only a list alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #25

Here's the case of a woman who didn't flee her home was convicted of murder TPaine7 Mar 2012 #26

Oh my alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #27

"as you would have seen if you bothered to read past the first page." TPaine7 Mar 2012 #32

Because of all the massive jury awards handed out to alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #34

Do you also believe that the idea of innocent people in prison in cases totally unrelated to this TPaine7 Mar 2012 #38

Of course there are innocent people in prison alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #40

My point was striclty an analogy: TPaine7 Mar 2012 #47

You view it differently alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #64

Not exactly TPaine7 Mar 2012 #71

Apparently you didn't read the Florida law very well Major Nikon Mar 2012 #67

Hey, thanks for that alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #68

As I said, the Florida law has been updated. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #70

The law was written in 2005 and that section hasn't changed Major Nikon Mar 2012 #74

The case was from before the 2005 change, so comparing 2005 and 2011 is irrelevant. n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #75

Let's review, shall we? Major Nikon Mar 2012 #79

+1 K & R L0oniX Mar 2012 #62

I don't think the purpose of a duty to retreat is as you've stated it treestar Mar 2012 #28

Purpose? No. Effect? Absolutely. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #29

Absolutely correct Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #30

You made that up out of whole cloth, I'll bet. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #33

I don't see why everyone who agrees with gun rights is AUTOMATICALLY an NRA member TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #37

I am not a member, nor have I ever given them a penny, though I almost contributed after Katrina. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #39

I agree TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #43

Right. I just made it up, or maybe you made it up Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #41

I think I'll stand my ground and won't allow your made up bullshit and histrionics to make me leave. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #45

Honestly, I think you're OK, personally, on SYG Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #49

I think Florida's SYG law and even their Castle Law need revision. There also needs to be education TPaine7 Mar 2012 #51

Good. I'm glad to hear that. nt. Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #54

You're entitled to your opinion but not your own facts treestar Mar 2012 #88

The duty to retreat is a duty to obey a criminal who orders you to flee coupled with a threat TPaine7 Apr 2012 #90

The bottom line is that he can dismiss you from any public space, simply by offering you violence. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #48

No one is losing any "legal right to be there." treestar Mar 2012 #87

Wow! Just Wow! Killing an unarmed teen with no legal ramifications is the "bathwater"? Major Nikon Mar 2012 #31

No, the issues with Florida law are the bathwater. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #36

Your attempts at defending this very bad law are extremely weak Major Nikon Mar 2012 #46

No, I didn't read your link. I read the law. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #53

Perhaps you can read, but I'm seriously doubting your ability to comprehend Major Nikon Mar 2012 #66

Let me see if I can break this down. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #80

You failed miserably at trying to break it down Major Nikon Mar 2012 #82

True, I did fail to break it down far enough for you. TPaine7 Apr 2012 #89

I skimmed over your post and failed to find anything that addresses the examples I gave Major Nikon Apr 2012 #95

A unarmed person can kill you or put you in the hospital ... spin Mar 2012 #69

The false assumption is that without the shoot first law, people go to jail for defending themselves Major Nikon Mar 2012 #72

+1000 ellisonz Mar 2012 #73

That's why I expressed my opinion that the law should be rewritten ... spin Mar 2012 #77

The law should be abolished Major Nikon Mar 2012 #81

Under the system I propose ... spin Mar 2012 #86

That is precisely the problem, or at least one of them TPaine7 Apr 2012 #91

I agree with you on much, yet I still don't like "stand your ground" TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #35

Thanks for your feedback. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #44

Fair enough TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #55

We almost totally agree TPaine7 Mar 2012 #56

You're right, we've got about a 98% agreement TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #76

Seriously ProSense Mar 2012 #42

"It elevates violent criminals over the law-abiding and innocent" Major Nikon Mar 2012 #52

The problem with the law as being used by Florida law enforcement csziggy Mar 2012 #57

Thanks for your thoughtul response. I agree that the law needs change and that all violent deaths TPaine7 Mar 2012 #59

Actually I started to say "arrested" but decided that in all cases that is not justified csziggy Mar 2012 #65

Thank you for this outstanding OP. K & R Edweird Mar 2012 #60

Zimmerman will be acquitted, due to SYG. caseymoz Mar 2012 #83

I seriously doubt it. His story appears to be falling apart. The voice crying for help wasn't his, TPaine7 Apr 2012 #92

That's the baby? caseymoz Apr 2012 #94

what purpose is served by posting identical OPs in two forums? iverglas Mar 2012 #84

Nice post TPaine Logical Apr 2012 #97