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pnwmom

(110,301 posts)

65. I do understand why, and it's exactly what you say:

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:07 PM

Mar 2014

they wanted to sell them on the market without having to have years of testing, as other nicotine-delivery systems, such as the patch and gum, have had to do. They also didn't want to have to spend the time to show that their processes produce a product with a specific, reliable amount of nicotine and without other toxins.

They are likely a safer alternative to smoking, though they haven't proved this to the FDA. But that doesn't mean there is negligible risk to second and third hand users, or to minors, which is what many people are most concerned about. If an adult chooses to use these things, fine. But they shouldn't be able to subject other people to an unknown risk. They shouldn't be able to claim they're a tobacco product in order to escape regulation; and then also claim they're safer than tobacco products, which should be allowed in public or work spaces, though they never submitted such research to the FDA.

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E-cigarettes 'should not be marketed as smoking cessation aids' [View all] morningfog Mar 2014 OP

Easy enough to track the cigarette tax revenue to aggregate the changes. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #1

It's not debatable Bonobo Mar 2014 #2

Except they won their lawsuit to NOT be classified as a smoking-cessation device. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #13

So what? Bonobo Mar 2014 #22

so all these folks who have quit smoking by using these devices never really quit smoking? frylock Mar 2014 #31

What lawsuit is that? Could you provide a link, please? LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #32

Sottera vs. FDA. Here you go: pnwmom Mar 2014 #35

Sottera V. FDA LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #36

Right. They argued that their product should instead be classified as a tobacco product, pnwmom Mar 2014 #44

the problem is you dont understand why. Tyhanna Mar 2014 #55

I do understand why, and it's exactly what you say: pnwmom Mar 2014 #65

you just dont understand do you? Tyhanna Mar 2014 #76

Of course they are a nicotine delivery system. They deliver nicotine. pnwmom Mar 2014 #77

see there you again, you dont understand how FDA works Tyhanna Mar 2014 #78

You're right, and that's what I'm saying. The FDA hasn't deemed e-cigarettes a tobacco product. pnwmom Mar 2014 #79

They dont want anymore than that ... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #81

Nicotine IS a drug, so the FDA was on solid ground attempting to regulate these devices. pnwmom Mar 2014 #82

is it a drug? Tyhanna Mar 2014 #83

Of course nicotine is a drug! Aspirin came from willow bark and it's a drug, too. pnwmom Mar 2014 #84

hum since all nicotine comes from tobacco.... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #85

The FDA already has a perfect category for "tobacco harm reduction." pnwmom Mar 2014 #86

wow you better read again....you are so wrong Tyhanna Mar 2014 #87

The FDA isn't about to approve anything as a "tobacco harm reduction product" pnwmom Mar 2014 #88

of course they arnt..... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #89

Nicotine is a drug. Period. Cigarettes have given a special exemption from the normal regulations pnwmom Mar 2014 #90

what exemption is that... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #91

Tobacco products are exempt from the normal FDA requirement that pnwmom Mar 2014 #93

again nicotine is only a drug if its in the NRTs. n/t Tyhanna Mar 2014 #92

Pure nicotine, as is used in vape pens, is always a drug. pnwmom Mar 2014 #94

obviously you are making things up again. Tyhanna Mar 2014 #95

Pure nicotine is a drug. And so is nicotine diluted with water to a lower concentration. pnwmom Mar 2014 #96

you can call it what ever you want... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #121

If you can provide links backing up your opinions, why don't you do so? pnwmom Mar 2014 #123

NO wrong... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #124

Do you understand that N-joy is one of the biggest and that it's made in China? pnwmom Mar 2014 #125

Cig look alikes are just a part of market share Tyhanna Mar 2014 #127

NJOY might combine their ingredients here, but they get them from China pnwmom Mar 2014 #128

Really? Tyhanna Mar 2014 #129

The burden is on you to prove the positive statement you made, not on me to disprove it. pnwmom Mar 2014 #131

ok this has become rediculous and im not going to continue with this.. Tyhanna Mar 2014 #132

Kids can buy them in retail stores in many states. They don't have to go online. pnwmom Mar 2014 #133

btw they fill their carts here in the US with the liquid... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #130

2 obscure companies - thats the "they" you refer to. beevul Mar 2014 #43

Not a single member of the industry supported the FDA's position, or appealed the judge's decision. pnwmom Mar 2014 #45

Yeah, and you benefit from skokie vs illinois. beevul Mar 2014 #46

I have said nothing untrue. You just disagree with my conclusions. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #48

Yes, you have. beevul Mar 2014 #50

This person never stops repeating the lies Glitterati Mar 2014 #68

Without a doubt. beevul Mar 2014 #70

Exactly. Glitterati Mar 2014 #72

The certainly are for me.. SomethingFishy Mar 2014 #23

My faith in the honesty of established medicine pipoman Mar 2014 #3

+1000000000000 redqueen Mar 2014 #41

caveat emptor GeorgeGist Mar 2014 #4

But gum and lozenges are because they are made (and over-priced) by big pharma. tridim Mar 2014 #5

Which is EXACTLY why you are seeing such a rabid campaign Glitterati Mar 2014 #69

And I found a study last week where 75% of vapers smoked less cigarettes KittyWampus Mar 2014 #6

It is not legal currently to market them as a cessation product. But they are Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #7

I would think the fire safety factor alone should make them wildly popular. MindPilot Mar 2014 #8

That is an excellent point. I watched my neighbor's home morningfog Mar 2014 #9

Hadn't thought of fire hazard angle. Thanks KittyWampus Mar 2014 #10

That's the best argument for them I've heard yet. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2014 #27

Here is how fucked up this "study" is: KittyWampus Mar 2014 #11

~90% of the people in this study were intending to quit NoOneMan Mar 2014 #73

They're not blogslut Mar 2014 #12

Why not? They work very well. I stared vaping Jan 31 Autumn Mar 2014 #14

Patches and lozenges "worked" for me... tridim Mar 2014 #15

The patches were a waste of time and money for me. They did Autumn Mar 2014 #16

wernt you already addicted to nicotine? that is why you smoke cigs for the nicotine right? n/t Tyhanna Mar 2014 #57

Sure, but the lozenges aren't freebase nicotine like cigs. tridim Mar 2014 #58

nether are e-cigarettes, same nicotine as used in the NRTs. n/t Tyhanna Mar 2014 #63

Should be marketed as eliminating 50+ known carcinogens jbond56 Mar 2014 #17

Yeah, what's with all the anti-e-cig OPs here at DU? Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #18

It's a bit strange, isn't it? Comrade Grumpy Mar 2014 #19

Not Strange RobinA Mar 2014 #28

^^^ THIS ^^^ bunnies Mar 2014 #30

Ha, this is great. Demit Mar 2014 #33

But it LOOKS like smoking tammywammy Mar 2014 #20

And the smokers (and former smokers) are ENJOYING it. Mariana Mar 2014 #56

If you look carefully the biggest anti-smoking people are the same ones SomethingFishy Mar 2014 #24

Well, I'm anti-smoking but I'm not anti-e-cig. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #26

Fortunately, most people are like you. Mariana Mar 2014 #75

2 packs in two years Tunkamerica Mar 2014 #152

I've noticed that it's common for SOME people on this site to look down on others who Revanchist Mar 2014 #34

Yes, food is another big one LordGlenconner Mar 2014 #39

I wish I could afford to buy organic and hormone free foods. Revanchist Mar 2014 #40

What's with it? LordGlenconner Mar 2014 #38

Especially not smokers. Mariana Mar 2014 #47

It's not just at DU. We're seeing a push for e-cig regulation at the city level Marr Mar 2014 #52

Kind of funny that me, my husband, logosoco Mar 2014 #21

Relatively few are against them. Mariana Mar 2014 #49

Yes, I never smoked in bed...My mother who drank and smoked set two fires in our home angstlessk Mar 2014 #53

Eventually your lungs will clear enough Mariana Mar 2014 #54

Admittedly I did not quit voluntarilly I got sick angstlessk Mar 2014 #59

I wasn't intending to quit when I did, either. Mariana Mar 2014 #61

Blue ecigs advertise with Stephen Dorf. Tunkamerica Mar 2014 #153

I used to smoke cigs daily. Now I'll have maybe 1 or two a month at a most since e-cigs. Kurska Mar 2014 #25

You Don't Get It RobinA Mar 2014 #29

And CHILDREN! Think of the CHILDREN! LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #37

Not to sound preachy. Revanchist Mar 2014 #42

Right now I am having problems with my batteries... angstlessk Mar 2014 #71

i've been off cigs for two weeks now thanks to vaping fizzgig Mar 2014 #112

Some people seem to think Mariana Mar 2014 #115

i've been posting in the lounge about my journey fizzgig Mar 2014 #117

What a screwed up, dishonestly reported study. DirkGently Mar 2014 #51

Well, of course kids who drag on e cigs are going to become nicotine dependent, Captain Obvious Warpy Mar 2014 #60

will they? become addicted ? Tyhanna Mar 2014 #62

Addiction and dependence are two different animals Warpy Mar 2014 #74

Interestingly enough; they're not being marketed that way... Earth_First Mar 2014 #64

People are getting asthma attacks from second hand vapor!!! zappaman Mar 2014 #66

Asthma can be triggered by psychological stimuli LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #67

I remember when people said the exact same thing about cigarette smoke. pnwmom Mar 2014 #99

...and since the chemical composition and dissipation rates LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #104

You're putting words into my mouth. E-cigs are likely safer than cigarettes, pnwmom Mar 2014 #105

I have no problem with completely blocking the Chinese imports LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #107

You don't understand the significance of the vape pen. pnwmom Mar 2014 #109

The described process actually makes your point less valid LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #113

Perfume doesn't release heated nano-particles of metals in vapor streams into the air. pnwmom Mar 2014 #114

And once again, your concern is not for health issues LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #118

Breathing in nano-particles of metals is a health issue. So is breathing in nicotine. pnwmom Mar 2014 #120

Completely useless study Egnever Mar 2014 #80

E-cigs controversy is all about fear cig tax revenue in danger ErikJ Mar 2014 #97

They are successful cessation devices for some. Successful replacements for others. phleshdef Mar 2014 #98

I agree these are great devices for smokers. But not so great for non-smokers pnwmom Mar 2014 #100

I've always been polite, whether when I was smoking or when I'm vaping. phleshdef Mar 2014 #101

I'm glad you are polite about it, but if these things are allowed in shared public spaces pnwmom Mar 2014 #102

Silly article. They have never been marketed as such. Live and Learn Mar 2014 #103

They have certainly been promoted here, in countless posts, as such. pnwmom Mar 2014 #106

What does that have to do with marketing? Mariana Mar 2014 #108

individual testimony =/= marketing fizzgig Mar 2014 #116

It is not the first you have heard of it. Live and Learn Mar 2014 #143

Then it has gone through the approval process, just like the cigarettes and gum. pnwmom Mar 2014 #144

Are you seriously a big pharma advocate? Live and Learn Mar 2014 #146

No. I'm an advocate of the FDA, whose job it is to approve of the safety and efficacy pnwmom Mar 2014 #148

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #110

vaping has reduced my cigarette smoking by 100 percent fizzgig Mar 2014 #111

It hasn't been officially tested Mariana Mar 2014 #119

i'm fine with it not being marketed as such fizzgig Mar 2014 #122

And I'm fine with you vaping it -- just not in shared indoor spaces. pnwmom Mar 2014 #134

no, you're only ok with e-cigs that don't contain nicotine fizzgig Mar 2014 #135

I"ve never said that. I don't want to be exposed to the off-gas or to have these things pnwmom Mar 2014 #136

yeah, you said you wouldn't have a problem with e-cigs that contained no nicotine fizzgig Mar 2014 #137

I was referring specifically to public spaces. But there's no way when you see a vape pen to know pnwmom Mar 2014 #138

that sub-thread had nothing to do with vaping in public places fizzgig Mar 2014 #139

Well, it did from my perspective. pnwmom Mar 2014 #140

so neither the post nor the sub-thread mentioned vaping in public fizzgig Mar 2014 #141

Then why don't all states ban the sale to minors, instead of just a handful? pnwmom Mar 2014 #142

Apparently those laws are not really necessary Live and Learn Mar 2014 #145

I'm not harassing any adult users. I support continuing the ban on pnwmom Mar 2014 #150

so lack of legislation = advocacy? fizzgig Mar 2014 #149

E-Cigarettes May Equal Nicotine Patches for Smoking Cessation krawhitham Mar 2014 #126

+1 nt Live and Learn Mar 2014 #147

You should make this into its own thread Revanchist Mar 2014 #151

They are much more effective. nt Bonobo Mar 2014 #154

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2014 #155