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JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
9. Unacceptable.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 04:31 PM
Mar 2014
Once should expect what normally occurs to occur, and not affect to discover it or pretend it is some dark secret being revealed which people ought to be shocked at.

No one is advocating being shocked. The frequency of an action cannot be the criterion by which it is judged as acceptable.

By this standard no one should get worked up about violations of voting rights in Republican controlled states, slave wages in Bangladesh, or the levels of hydrocarbon consumption that are causing global warming. You've probably "affected to discover" such wrongs in the past. Slavery, serfdom, child labor, legal subjugation of women, etc. etc. -- all were once normal in the United States (and widespread in many places today). Confronted with critiques of these wrongs, there were always "realists" who responded in much the same way as you do, not with approval, but by suggesting it's the way of the world so give up.

Democracy, rule of law, a republic -- all mean nothing if policy is conducted in secret and by means of deception, without open discussion and debate. When did the U.S. government announce it was going to machinate to overthrow Yanukovich? Who decided this was good for "Western" interests, or for the American people this government supposedly represents? If it had an impact -- it may well have -- we see the results now: a right-wing ethnocentric government in Ukraine comes to power under siege and necessarily looking for a fight at birth, immediately bans the Russian language, and thus gives Putin the pretext to intervene with the approval of more than 90% of the Crimean population. Now we are close to a new permanent Cold War to justify burning the wealth of our people on more "defense."

The broad outlines of the prior policy are not enough to justify something as big as a U.S. government decision to covertly back the overthrow of the elected government in Ukraine. Again, regardless of the impact it has. And of course, it robs the U.S. government of its standing to complain to the Russians (as prior U.S. policy a lot worse than the Crimea intervention has also done).

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Wish I had the ability to make a poll of this... JackRiddler Mar 2014 #1
It Is Good To See Your Caveats, Sir The Magistrate Mar 2014 #2
Normal practice is not therefore good. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #4
It absolutely was our business to conduct in the first place. That's the business of every country stevenleser Mar 2014 #5
So "business" is subterfuge and you approve. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #8
Ooh, you used a big scary sounding word that sounds bad! No. Read again what I wrote. nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #11
Really? Subterfuge is a big word to you? JackRiddler Mar 2014 #12
As The Man Said, Sir The Magistrate Mar 2014 #6
Unacceptable. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #9
You May Forgive Me, Sir, For Being Unable To Take Your Line Seriously Any Longer Here The Magistrate Mar 2014 #13
The answer, actually... JackRiddler Mar 2014 #14
My perception of the situation would disagree with you tech3149 Mar 2014 #27
What you seem to not understand, Sir, is a knowledgeable and thoughtful AngryAmish Mar 2014 #34
Should you not have beat your wife? nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #3
It was not a coup. joshcryer Mar 2014 #7
So they held a constitutional impeachment, did they? JackRiddler Mar 2014 #10
Yes, the impeachment was legal. joshcryer Mar 2014 #16
I'm sure they are moderate. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #18
The key will be handling the oligarchs. joshcryer Mar 2014 #19
Yeah, they've got the perfect government JackRiddler Mar 2014 #20
They well have elections. joshcryer Mar 2014 #22
bumping JackRiddler Mar 2014 #15
The USA needs to stay out of Ukranie and Russia's business bigwillq Mar 2014 #17
Way too many folks are ignoring this simple set of facts malaise Mar 2014 #21
Yeah but the corporate media... JackRiddler Mar 2014 #24
M$M never fails malaise Mar 2014 #25
Don't think they don't know what they are doing JVS Mar 2014 #28
Some of them do... JackRiddler Mar 2014 #29
I think this is what's most frustrating ozone_man Mar 2014 #23
It's about the gold reserves Forever29 Mar 2014 #26
Geostrategy is a lot more than gold. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #30
Thank you for stating so well what many of us here felt at the time and still KoKo Mar 2014 #31
I think the point is that they made a mess of it. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #32
Would it have been okay if it had been effective? JackRiddler Mar 2014 #33
If it resulted in good governance in Ukraine, I'd be fine with a bit of subterfuge. bemildred Mar 2014 #35
Subterfuge wrong on principle and bad practice. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #36
Oddly enough, having read all that, I don't find anything I particularly disagree with. bemildred Mar 2014 #37
It was not a coup. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #38
In eastern Ukraine the popular seems to go the other way. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #39
Since it's kickable... JackRiddler Jun 2016 #40
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