General Discussion

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)

46. the whole point of progressive or left thinking

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:42 AM

Mar 2014

Even in the Marxist dialectic - perhaps, especially in the Marxist dialectic - the most fundamental point is to advance progress and inhibit reaction. To do this with any effectiveness one must speak the truth and act on it - no matter how bitter it may be. One of the bitter truths in the American experience is that it not possible at this time and for the foreseeable future to build a national alternative to the two major parties. This is reality. I wish it wasn't. When I was just a kid in my twenties I didn't accept that reality and I participated in three different third party efforts; The Socialist Party USA, The California Peace and Freedom Party and the Citizens Party (a forerunner to the Green Party). After a few years I came to realize that this is not dealing with the real world as it is. It is living in a make believe world that I wish was the case. Although, I certainly met a lot of very nice and some very interesting people.

I don't advocate working within the Democratic Party out of some principled position or have any illusions that Democratic Party is a progressive party. It is not. I advocate working within the Democratic Party because there is no choice and there is not going to be for the foreseeable future. That is how our system is configured and has been for a long, long time. To reject reality in favor of a feel good illusion is not speaking the truth and acting on it and it is certainly not advancing progress and inhibiting reaction. It is simple bourgeois self-indulgence.

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What are your true feelings about supporting the Democratic Party of today? [View all] Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 OP

As a reporter I do not support any national party nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #1

This is a Democratic website BainsBane Mar 2014 #25

Are you saying reporters cannot post here, or are you saying that reporters should be biased? sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #35

Maybe this is the reason why Independants are growing in number cprise Mar 2014 #38

Independents are growing in number because DU is a Democratic website? BainsBane Mar 2014 #43

'Americans More Likely to Identify as Independents Than D or R' -Gallup Jan. 2014 cprise Mar 2014 #48

Lol! So you want lip service instead of the truth. And we wonder why the Democratic party is in bad Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #49

Misandry? BainsBane Mar 2014 #54

Pardon, who said anything about voting republican? Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #55

It was a question BainsBane Mar 2014 #56

Lol! I know how this game is played. I won't rise to it. Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #57

This is how you always react BainsBane Mar 2014 #60

Completely untrue...but its a standard for you. Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #61

Are you saying you didn't just link your decision not to vote BainsBane Mar 2014 #62

See above I added more, and no, not not entirely with this site. Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #63

Yet you just admitted it in the post above. BainsBane Mar 2014 #66

Admit what? That I was accused repeatedly? Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #67

That you weren't voting because of your views of women BainsBane Mar 2014 #68

Lol! Again its this idea that I arrived at this simply because of some nonsense posted online Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #72

That is not how you began this discussion BainsBane Mar 2014 #131

Lol! Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #132

Let's review BainsBane Mar 2014 #135

Amazing, how you spin, but it still boils down to Waffle time in the near future Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #136

LOL. Those are quotes from your own posts BainsBane Mar 2014 #138

What's particularly instructive BainsBane Mar 2014 #142

Whats instructive is Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #156

I know BainsBane Mar 2014 #157

It's astonishing how many lies you packed into that one post. nt Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #87

Agree! Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #88

I imagine she will be back to tell me what I meant to say, then tear it apart... Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #91

Most likely, Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #94

Voting for these clowns is like ordering waffles for the 1%. nt Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #116

You accuse me of lying BainsBane Mar 2014 #134

All one has to do is look at your past posts of other threads Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #137

Hey, I spun your posts BainsBane Mar 2014 #139

And What you are doing is turning off voters fascisthunter Mar 2014 #154

What attitude is that? BainsBane Mar 2014 #155

+1000 Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #160

misogyny not misandry Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #58

Pretty much feel the same. A huge group here will support and defend ANYTHING... Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #86

Yup, hate of anything that doesn't walk in lockstep with their ideas. Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #95

You mean the group called Democrats? BainsBane Mar 2014 #147

No Baines, and I really prefer not to waste time with your games. nt Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #151

You are the one who chose to enter this subthread BainsBane Mar 2014 #153

The phrase, "I'm going to take my ball and go home!" springs to mind. Squinch Mar 2014 #92

If you say so Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #97

Same thing. Which begs the question, is there a reason you are here? Squinch Mar 2014 #99

What gives you the right to say I've chosen against Democrats? Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #104

I didn't say it. You did. But your umbrage is noted. Squinch Mar 2014 #106

No, you say I did. Your posturing is noted. Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #107

Nyah nyah. Squinch Mar 2014 #110

Still liking those waffles Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #111

But, again, you have stated that you have no intention of supporting the Democrats in the midterms, Squinch Mar 2014 #113

I like waffles. Isn't enough? You ought to go visit the cooking and baking forum. Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #133

What gives me the right is your announcement that you won't be voting in the upcoming Squinch Mar 2014 #145

Don't quote, Squinch BainsBane Mar 2014 #146

AND lying! Because... just because! That's why! Squinch Mar 2014 #149

Then why are you here? Adrahil Mar 2014 #96

I'm trying to figure out the same thing! People are mean to him here so instead of voting for Dems Number23 Mar 2014 #178

It is amazing the number of flies around DU davidpdx Mar 2014 #59

It's been clear for some time BainsBane Mar 2014 #64

Lol! Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #65

You're seeing that gathering gnat cloud too, huh? Squinch Mar 2014 #103

Supporting, regardless of how tainted the democratic process has become = what? MrMickeysMom Mar 2014 #69

What rules have changed? BainsBane Mar 2014 #70

Your last line was the easiest one to agree with... MrMickeysMom Mar 2014 #168

Okay, I can see that BainsBane Mar 2014 #182

! dionysus Mar 2014 #158

although I don't entirely agree with #2... mike_c Mar 2014 #2

I think French Toast is awesome LostOne4Ever Mar 2014 #3

Given the choice between midterm voting and Belgium waffles. I now know what Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #50

Not voting = electoral support for Repubs. riqster Mar 2014 #74

It does work out that way. Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #76

So you openly admit that your actions support Republicans? riqster Mar 2014 #77

I admit I like waffles. Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #78

Waffles! The ulitmate answer to life the universe and everything!!! LostOne4Ever Mar 2014 #114

:) Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #115

Some of us can actually cook and eat waffles BainsBane Mar 2014 #159

We sure can! LostOne4Ever Mar 2014 #162

yum, waffles.... mike_c Mar 2014 #152

Make mine gluten free. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #167

I'm a life long Democrat since the day my parents took me to register to vote. Autumn Mar 2014 #4

To what? Squinch Mar 2014 #93

If you go unaffiliated, you will get slammed with junk mail & phone calls & front door solicitors CrispyQ Mar 2014 #130

Since we report on the election nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #161

I noticed a lot of the repub candidates didn't have the word Republican on their mailers, CrispyQ Mar 2014 #163

The local scandal is that a few nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #164

It won't bother me. I enjoy talking to Democrats and I don't mind Autumn Mar 2014 #176

between 2 and 3. There really is not much effective difference, but our managers frighten us Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #5

Like This? bvar22 Mar 2014 #183

Anyone that thinks there little difference between the two parties has not been paying attention... Tx4obama Mar 2014 #6

Faking being a Dem doesn't count. n/t DeSwiss Mar 2014 #28

As someone who chose the Democratic Party at 8 years old - Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2014 #7

And given the bright idea from republicans nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #165

I'm a straight white male. There's little difference between the parties for me. Recursion Mar 2014 #8

So there is a vast difference with respect to the nature of the world you get to live in, even as Squinch Mar 2014 #98

The t-folk are completely unacceptable to me. oldandhappy Mar 2014 #9

Whatever you're doing, you're doing it all wrong. Throd Mar 2014 #10

I thought "shitstorm" was the forecast every day. winter is coming Mar 2014 #17

other: Robb is a dingbat hfojvt Mar 2014 #11

I support Democratic candidates for office FarCenter Mar 2014 #12

Pass. LWolf Mar 2014 #13

why? because I'm trying to sniff out the lukewarm and the unfaithful to try get them purged Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #15

Okay. LWolf Mar 2014 #16

Color me lukewarm. Blue_In_AK Mar 2014 #32

Well you may as well join the mob ... sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #36

Ah. Just what we need. You as the witchfinder general. Squinch Mar 2014 #79

Purging the lukewarm and unfaithful - wow Deny and Shred Mar 2014 #83

um, it was a joke Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #84

Oh, Ok Deny and Shred Mar 2014 #85

Sadly here the sarcasm tag is usually needed. Marrah_G Mar 2014 #109

I THINK he's being sarcastic. Eleanors38 Mar 2014 #118

thank you Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #148

Today's alternative is the batshit-crazy Republican coalition of assorted one-issue ideologues, struggle4progress Mar 2014 #14

Any party is merely a vehicle for certain principles and policies. I support it if I agree with them Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #18

French toast for me, thank you. Crunchy Frog Mar 2014 #19

BS manipulative poll cprise Mar 2014 #20

how so? Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #21

Marginalizing the Left; replete with fear-mongering cprise Mar 2014 #22

I support Bernie Sanders and very much hope he runs for President in 2016 in the primaries Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #23

I'm sure cerebrally you're very left; Instinctively not so much. cprise Mar 2014 #30

I guess you have invented in your mind the political equivalent of the "Christian" who goes to Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #31

One can assume a 'saved' posture via notions of centrism or status quo cprise Mar 2014 #39

the whole point of progressive or left thinking Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #46

How do you define "the left'? BainsBane Mar 2014 #27

There are different ways cprise Mar 2014 #33

And what does that have to do with American politics? BainsBane Mar 2014 #44

Plenty. Its clear that democratic reforms must start at the local level cprise Mar 2014 #73

I agree on all points. LuvNewcastle Mar 2014 #117

Options 1 and 3 are the same BainsBane Mar 2014 #24

The only reason they have my undivided support (and have had since 1980) Warpy Mar 2014 #26

I'm unaffiliated but I support the Democratic Party Platform. joshcryer Mar 2014 #29

Grudging. PeteSelman Mar 2014 #34

The answer is: Alway vote, no matter what, and cprise Mar 2014 #40

I live in a bluer than blue area. PeteSelman Mar 2014 #41

A model small-'d' democrat :) cprise Mar 2014 #42

Amen to that. Boomerproud Mar 2014 #173

I always support whom I feel Niceguy1 Mar 2014 #37

There's no difference is a right wing talking point! B Calm Mar 2014 #45

Somewhere between 1 and 3 Union Scribe Mar 2014 #47

Five centuries ago Ichingcarpenter Mar 2014 #51

Well said... sendero Mar 2014 #53

The Discourses, two thumbs up. Deny and Shred Mar 2014 #89

Great post, Ichingcarpenter. LuvNewcastle Mar 2014 #119

Credit goes to Richard Dolan Ichingcarpenter Mar 2014 #127

Personally, Sir, i Would Select Both the First And Third Options The Magistrate Mar 2014 #52

I would select the 3rd option for our Labour Party AND for the Dems... LeftishBrit Mar 2014 #100

But If Not Done Whole-Heartedly, Ma'am, It Does Not Work The Magistrate Mar 2014 #102

fighting against something whole-heartedly can sustain enthusiasm in the short run - but in the long Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #150

how about true blue but fed up with ineptitude - lack of Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2014 #71

Both parties are corrupt and venal, and I cannot support either one, as a party. bemildred Mar 2014 #75

^^this^^ Puzzledtraveller Mar 2014 #123

Precisely my view. Maedhros Mar 2014 #141

I will vote my principles. 99Forever Mar 2014 #80

How have you managed to vote in the past? BainsBane Mar 2014 #166

I cast my first vote in 1972. 99Forever Mar 2014 #169

Pretty much quit supporting the party at the national level hobbit709 Mar 2014 #81

#3 for me get the red out Mar 2014 #82

I voted 3, but I think there is a possibility of near term viable 3rd party. eom PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #90

What sort of third party? Adrahil Mar 2014 #101

Difficult to see, always in motion is the future. n/t PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #108

Ahhh, the Jedi... I could get behind that. nt Adrahil Mar 2014 #112

What party? There is no party? BlueStreak Mar 2014 #105

Very good point. LuvNewcastle Mar 2014 #120

And that is why I suggest our only path forward is a clear agenda BlueStreak Mar 2014 #122

That's a plan I would support. LuvNewcastle Mar 2014 #128

Polls indicate huge majorities support all of these items BlueStreak Mar 2014 #144

You are pretty much right. When I vote Democrat... Eleanors38 Mar 2014 #121

In the 2012 election cycle, I offered to the local Democratic Party BlueStreak Mar 2014 #125

Hi neighbor nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #171

In today's world, most of the resources go to the swing states BlueStreak Mar 2014 #172

It also does not help nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #174

Then you can imagine Texas, or the ghost town that is party structure. Eleanors38 Mar 2014 #175

Definitely. We need Howard Dean back BlueStreak Mar 2014 #179

Wendy has closed the gap to single digits in the latest poll. nt Eleanors38 Mar 2014 #181

The party leadership are multi-millionaires, elites, out of touch with everyday people. closeupready Mar 2014 #124

And the phenomena fredamae Mar 2014 #126

I vote for progressive candidates not for a party. bigwillq Mar 2014 #129

The critical number in this poll is the top one... Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #140

Not into the poll, but... Atman Mar 2014 #143

one more for the fun of it Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #170

Such an obvious push poll, soon to be paraded to promote Todays_Illusion Mar 2014 #177

how one earth is this a push poll when the poll simply states the most commonly reflected opinions Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #180

once again Douglas Carpenter Apr 2014 #184