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kcr

(15,522 posts)

89. Exactly

Sun Mar 30, 2014, 10:24 AM

Mar 2014

They don't do it. So, do you think doctors just randomly pick parents who disagree for their very unlucky day? Eeny meeny miney mo. That one!

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In early March, Judge Johnson put Justina Pelletier's medical care back with Dr. Korman/Tufts [View all] magical thyme Mar 2014 OP

Are we reading the same article? MADem Mar 2014 #1

the judge says he agreed with the doctors at Childrens, but put her back under the care of Tufts. magical thyme Mar 2014 #2

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I think you've got it backwards. MADem Mar 2014 #3

"Justina Pelletier...will get treatment with her original doctors at Tufts Medical Center..." magical thyme Mar 2014 #4

That's from March 4th kcr Mar 2014 #6

I realize that. That is my point. magical thyme Mar 2014 #7

Exactly. LisaL Mar 2014 #8

You're free of course to interpret anything however you wish kcr Mar 2014 #9

The judge awarded custody to DCF. LisaL Mar 2014 #10

But to this day she still hasn't kcr Mar 2014 #13

Well you have to ask DCF why she hasn't got the treatment that the judge ordered. LisaL Mar 2014 #14

Why are you taking Liberty Counsel's side kcr Mar 2014 #18

I am taking Justina's side. LisaL Mar 2014 #19

Do you always do that? kcr Mar 2014 #20

What child abuse are we talking about here? LisaL Mar 2014 #22

How do we know there wasn't any? kcr Mar 2014 #23

Oh please. LisaL Mar 2014 #25

I have, including the Globe. kcr Mar 2014 #26

DCF has major problems. I would be scared and angered that this medical dispute has turned this bad. 4Q2u2 Mar 2014 #27

Oh, I'm sure they have major problems kcr Mar 2014 #30

It started with an ER doctor who "didn't believe" in mitochondrial diseases. moriah Mar 2014 #71

It did? kcr Mar 2014 #80

In a hospital with a very large mitochondrial department, too? MADem Mar 2014 #159

What good does this department do when Children's diagnosed her with somatoform? LisaL Mar 2014 #170

You don't know if they ran her through that department to exclude the diagnosis, do you? MADem Mar 2014 #193

I don't know that they didn't decide she should be an astronaut and send her to the moon either. LisaL Mar 2014 #199

Apropos of nothing. nt MADem Apr 2014 #205

the fact is that the judge put her medical treatment back under her original doctor magical thyme Mar 2014 #12

What is actually in the ruling is what matters kcr Mar 2014 #15

If the ruling is what matters, why hasn't she been given the treatment at Tufts. LisaL Mar 2014 #17

It says in the article kcr Mar 2014 #21

She's in a psychiatric facility in Framingham, now. I don't think she's getting any treatment at MADem Mar 2014 #51

Nope. She isn't. kcr Mar 2014 #53

mitochondrial disease is complicated to treat and involves multiple specialties magical thyme Mar 2014 #28

I'm not disputing any facts concerning mitochondrial disease itself kcr Mar 2014 #31

You may consider abcnews and bostonglobe rightwing sources. I don't. magical thyme Mar 2014 #32

I don't consider them right wing sources kcr Mar 2014 #33

I saw the names with ties in articles that I read some months ago magical thyme Mar 2014 #34

Oh, so it's a conspiracy kcr Mar 2014 #35

if you consider people's attempts to extricate themselves from their eff-ups a conspiracy, then yes magical thyme Mar 2014 #36

What evidence do you have that any doctor refused to consider or allow a 2nd opinion? kcr Mar 2014 #37

Boston Globe. And everybody has a personal bias, whether or not they realize it. magical thyme Mar 2014 #38

Of course they do. kcr Mar 2014 #40

This has little to do with children's rights, and everything to do with a pnwmom Mar 2014 #45

It has everything to do with it. kcr Mar 2014 #47

Judge reaffirmed the position that diagnosis made by Children's is the correct one? LisaL Mar 2014 #48

Of course it's a territorial dispute. The Harvard psychiatrists insisted that they knew better pnwmom Mar 2014 #49

Of course it is. If you just automatically buy what one side says. kcr Mar 2014 #52

Who were the abuserx? Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #176

Well, since the state removed their daughter from their care kcr Mar 2014 #178

Did you not claim you read Boston Globe articles? LisaL Mar 2014 #93

I sure did. Note these are all claims being made by the parents. kcr Mar 2014 #100

I think they may have a problem with veracity, which probably influenced the judge's decision. nt MADem Mar 2014 #107

Nonsense. LisaL Mar 2014 #115

In reply to your non-responsive and somewhat denigrating comment, I invite your attention to the MADem Mar 2014 #118

Oh for crying out loud. LisaL Mar 2014 #114

Oh, for crying out loud, I have. kcr Mar 2014 #116

The parents were forbidden from seeking second opinion. LisaL Mar 2014 #120

No, I'm not kcr Mar 2014 #122

There is this report in the Boston Globe that they weren't allowed to get a second opinion. pnwmom Mar 2014 #182

I already addressed that in another response kcr Mar 2014 #186

She hasn't yet been given any treatment. LisaL Mar 2014 #16

treatment is not necessarily as an inpatient. magical thyme Mar 2014 #29

It's an inpatient psychiatric facility, about twenty miles outside of Boston, where Tufts Med is MADem Mar 2014 #55

Then that judge made an even worse decision. First he rules that she should get care pnwmom Mar 2014 #77

His MAR 4 decision was an interim one only. It's like kicking the can down the road. MADem Mar 2014 #78

This Boston Globe report says that the girl WILL be seeing the new medical team pnwmom Mar 2014 #81

I stand corrected and thanks for pointing that out. MADem Mar 2014 #82

Why would this have placated anyone? pnwmom Mar 2014 #83

We do not know that. MADem Mar 2014 #96

This has nothing to do with "patient privacy." Her parents had the right under privacy laws, pnwmom Mar 2014 #99

The child was in the custody of the state since last year. This is a matter of public record. MADem Mar 2014 #105

This doesn't change the fact that it was the judge's gag order, sought by the hospital, pnwmom Mar 2014 #108

Gagged or not, they didn't have all the information. They were not the child's custodians. MADem Mar 2014 #110

The gag order kept them from allowing the Tufts doctors to release their records. pnwmom Mar 2014 #112

Every record they have is OVER a year old. MADem Mar 2014 #123

Her old medical record is CRITICAL since this whole case began as a dispute between her old pnwmom Mar 2014 #125

No, that's what her parents say. The hospital says this is a case of medical child abuse. MADem Mar 2014 #130

Did you read the Boston Globe's extensive 2 part investigative piece? pnwmom Mar 2014 #133

Read it? I POSTED it. You might want to go back and check. nt MADem Mar 2014 #134

Both parts? If so, I don't understand how you could have made so many of the claims you've made. pnwmom Mar 2014 #135

Yes, both parts, and I posted them a day and a half ago. They make NO conclusions, as I pointed out MADem Mar 2014 #136

No, the paper makes no conclusions. But what it does report is enough to make clear pnwmom Mar 2014 #137

To me, it doesn't make anything clear. It could be a territorial dispute, it could MADem Mar 2014 #138

So you're dismissing everything that Dr. Korson said about being cut out of the team pnwmom Mar 2014 #139

When you can tell me what Dr. Korson said to the JUDGE, then we can talk. MADem Mar 2014 #140

You're wrong about the tests. There is NO definitive test for all mitochondrial disorders. pnwmom Mar 2014 #141

Well, whatever. It's the FIRST test that should be done, according to most sources. MADem Mar 2014 #171

A muscle biopsy is a highly invasive test, and it wasn't necessary in order to justify the invasive pnwmom Mar 2014 #179

It is not "highly" invasive. It hurts a bit. MADem Mar 2014 #192

In children it requires a general anesthetic. pnwmom Mar 2014 #195

A fifteen year old is not a "child" for purposes of this procedure. MADem Apr 2014 #207

My niece was even older and had general anesthesia for her biopsy. But you're ignoring pnwmom Apr 2014 #221

Lucky Justina is covered by Commonwealth Care. She doesn't have to pay for expensive procedures. MADem Apr 2014 #223

You know that allegation was DISMISSED. So why do you keep repeating it over and over and over? pnwmom Apr 2014 #226

You need to read the judge's ruling. The state of CT found that the parents were not fit to MADem Apr 2014 #229

I read the whole ruling and it doesn't say what you think. pnwmom Apr 2014 #231

They met with the GAL. The judge directed the MA agencies to facilitate w/CT. MADem Apr 2014 #233

So? More spoon-feeding. n/t pnwmom Apr 2014 #235

OK, CT DCF is "stupid" then. You can't have it both ways. nt MADem Apr 2014 #237

As I said, they're probably over-extended and over-worked. pnwmom Apr 2014 #238

That's pure speculation. They've interacted with the GaL. Maybe they just AGREE with MA. MADem Apr 2014 #239

I'll concede you're the expert in that. n/t pnwmom Apr 2014 #240

I don't claim expertise, but I can provide a link from someone who is. MADem Apr 2014 #241

She still hasn't seen any doctors from Tufts. And judge's ruling was in the beginning of March. LisaL Mar 2014 #91

We don't know who she has seen. Patient privacy, and all. nt MADem Mar 2014 #95

You are ignoring every published report that says she hasn't yet seen any doctors in Tufts. LisaL Mar 2014 #104

Look, unless you are her case manager, you just do not know for certain and neither do I. MADem Mar 2014 #106

Then you aren't looking. LisaL Mar 2014 #109

You'll provide links that say that, I'm sure. That state, definitively, that she has not been seen MADem Mar 2014 #111

What are you going to look for? LisaL Mar 2014 #113

The family doesn't know if that's the case or not. They've no access to her medical records. MADem Mar 2014 #117

DCF confirmed she hasn't been seen by anybody at Tufts. LisaL Mar 2014 #119

Please show me where DCF--not the family, who do not have access to her records and are not allowed MADem Mar 2014 #121

Just read my whole post. LisaL Mar 2014 #126

I did. nt MADem Mar 2014 #131

here is where they are paraphrased. magical thyme Mar 2014 #128

That kind of looks like Daily News ripping off Boston Globe. MADem Mar 2014 #129

so now you're accusing Dr. Korson of violating HIPPA for stating that he has not been involved with magical thyme Mar 2014 #143

What in hell is wrong with you? Can't you speak civilly? MADem Mar 2014 #146

You just confirmed my theory. pnwmom Mar 2014 #181

No, I base my POV on this document. MADem Mar 2014 #188

Not "as well." Based on the information MA oh so helpfully provided them with. pnwmom Mar 2014 #201

She'd tell them? You're acting like you know these people. MADem Apr 2014 #206

I'm acting like I read the media account I showed you yesterday, pnwmom Apr 2014 #219

A psychologist isn't a psychiatrist, and a number of other people testified, too. MADem Apr 2014 #222

A psychologist can be a much better therapist. Psychiatrists these days are mostly pill-pushers pnwmom Apr 2014 #224

The hospital found that she had severe and untreated PSYCHIATRIC issues. nt MADem Apr 2014 #227

YES, because the hospital INCORRECTLY ruled out a mitochondrial disorder as the cause pnwmom Apr 2014 #228

NO. CT said they were ignoring her psychiatric health, too. MADem Apr 2014 #230

No, it did not. That allegation was dismissed as you are well aware. pnwmom Apr 2014 #234

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. MADem Apr 2014 #236

I can't believe you think it's justifiable for the parents not to be given access pnwmom Mar 2014 #180

They did not--and don't --have custody. That's why they were not given access. MADem Mar 2014 #191

All CT has to go on are the voluminous files MA is shoving at them, pnwmom Mar 2014 #200

CT can end this but they don't. Why is that? Are they weak? Stupid? MADem Apr 2014 #208

CT didn't make an independent determination. They rubber-stamped the MA decision. nt pnwmom Apr 2014 #218

You don't know that. If that were the case, why did the GaL bother to go to CT? MADem Apr 2014 #225

We DO know that Dr. Korson says he was prevented from seeing her, and he was pnwmom Mar 2014 #142

And we DO know that that same doctor testified to the judge on the 4th, and the MADem Mar 2014 #144

But his testimony was more than a year after she was taken by the hospital. pnwmom Mar 2014 #145

You don't know what treatment she eventually got at Children's; neither do I. MADem Mar 2014 #147

She has severe and persistent somatic symptom disoder, accodring to this judge. LisaL Mar 2014 #149

This case is making me ill. pnwmom Mar 2014 #151

It's unbelievable. LisaL Mar 2014 #152

Look what I just found. pnwmom Mar 2014 #153

Clearly treatment for somatoform hasn't "fixed" her. LisaL Mar 2014 #154

The charge was made that they didn't know about the condition, they had no awareness of it. MADem Mar 2014 #156

The psychiatrists ruled that she didn't have a mitochondrial disorder, pnwmom Mar 2014 #177

Her old "mito" specialist testified before the judge. So did the child. MADem Mar 2014 #190

I know how he ruled. I also know he ruled three weeks ago to put her back into pnwmom Mar 2014 #196

They make complete sense to me. MADem Apr 2014 #214

It's not telling at all. They just rubber-stamped the MA DCF recommendation, pnwmom Apr 2014 #217

No they didn't--they met with the GAL, they didn't just review papers. MADem Apr 2014 #232

Tufts itself did not file the allegation -- certain Tufts doctors other than Dr. Korson did -- pnwmom Mar 2014 #150

"Tufts itself" did, if doctors from Tufts took the action. They weren't acting as concerned MADem Mar 2014 #155

What part of these allegations (from Tufts) were dismissed don't you understand? LisaL Mar 2014 #157

What part of "You don't know WHY they were dismissed" don't you understand? MADem Mar 2014 #158

If you don't like the idea, why tolerate it? LisaL Mar 2014 #160

Because if the child is being kept from an abusive situation, then that's where she needs to stay, MADem Mar 2014 #161

I am so glad MA DCF has unlimited amounts of money to spend on children they take from other states. LisaL Mar 2014 #162

Well, how nice that you're happy about something at long last. MADem Mar 2014 #163

Did you or did you not see recent photos of her? LisaL Mar 2014 #164

I saw photos without a timestamp that could have been taken a year ago. MADem Mar 2014 #165

Anything coming from the family is biased? There are recent photos of her. How can they be biased? LisaL Mar 2014 #166

Yes. The family is prosecuting THEIR case in the Court of Public Opinion. Their views are biased MADem Mar 2014 #167

Oh, I am sure DCF wants to keep her out of the spotlight. LisaL Mar 2014 #169

Yes, because they have respect for patient/client privacy, and because it's the LAW. MADem Mar 2014 #173

Based on published reports, I have a very good idea of what Dr. Korson told the court. LisaL Mar 2014 #174

Well, your "good idea" and a few dollars will buy you a cuppa coffee at a Starbucks. MADem Mar 2014 #175

We don't have to guess why the judge ruled as he did. LisaL Mar 2014 #184

So ==that's== what you got out of four pages of detailed material? MADem Mar 2014 #187

The article said that "staff" did -- which could be a receptionist, for all we know. pnwmom Mar 2014 #183

Yeah, right--a receptionist. MADem Mar 2014 #189

You're changing the subject instead of acknowledging that she had a mental health therapist pnwmom Mar 2014 #197

The girl needed a psychiatrist. Not a PhD psychologist. MADem Apr 2014 #209

Who thinks that, other than you? Justina had plenty of M.D.'s. For a therapist, pnwmom Apr 2014 #216

The hospital and DCFs, apparently. And just because you keep insisting that "CT's determination MADem Apr 2014 #220

You aren't putting that into context. pnwmom Mar 2014 #198

CT DCF should really agree to take her. She is from CT. LisaL Mar 2014 #203

If you want to characterize CT DCF as a bunch of morons, that's your choice. MADem Apr 2014 #210

That ruling didn't change anything about his previous ruling, which was also specific. pnwmom Mar 2014 #76

I think that was a temporary decision, not a permanent one. He was playing the "better safe than MADem Mar 2014 #50

I really doubt the judge would temporarily hand her treatment over to Tufts magical thyme Mar 2014 #54

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, here. MADem Mar 2014 #56

time will tell... magical thyme Mar 2014 #57

I think the judge's order expired when he handed the child to the Commonwealth. MADem Mar 2014 #58

again, time will tell. nt magical thyme Mar 2014 #59

So he ruled DCF has to do it. That ruling was in the beginning of March. LisaL Mar 2014 #86

I hope it doesn't take this child's death to make the doctors see sense. moriah Mar 2014 #62

Well, that infant couldn't speak for himself; a fifteen year old can. MADem Mar 2014 #63

There were many more in England, when they told juries two babies couldn't die of SIDS.... moriah Mar 2014 #64

I am not "labeling." I've repeatedly said I don't know what the deal is, here. MADem Mar 2014 #66

It's the doctors who are labeling, and that's bothering me. moriah Mar 2014 #67

Please take a look at the Children's Hospital link at post 69, and my comments as well. MADem Mar 2014 #72

Not that the hospital didn't believe it, but the ER doctor who saw her and flagged her as MSbP. moriah Mar 2014 #74

I just don't feel qualified to "do the Frist," particularly when one could also say MADem Mar 2014 #75

Sorry to bump, have been moving this weekend.. but what gets me.... moriah Mar 2014 #84

I've had one of those biopsies. They aren't fun, they hurt. MADem Mar 2014 #101

It doesn't matter which diagnosis is right or wrong. LisaL Mar 2014 #85

Sure, parents get to decide treatment. kcr Mar 2014 #87

Well, I don't know. It would be pretty expensive for DCF to take cae of all these millions of LisaL Mar 2014 #88

Exactly kcr Mar 2014 #89

Alan Dershowitz is wrong if he said that, and I think he might have had a caveat in there. MADem Mar 2014 #98

Excellent post kcr Mar 2014 #79

She does speak. Nobody listens. She is told she isn't allowed to make choices. LisaL Mar 2014 #92

That "record" is over a year old. Much water under the bridge since then. MADem Mar 2014 #94

Well as long as you are sure it's all good. LisaL Mar 2014 #103

Don't you think parents who have watched their daughter being deprived of medical treatment pnwmom Mar 2014 #42

I have no dog in this fight. I do find some things curious, though. MADem Mar 2014 #61

Don't you agree that when there are two groups of respected doctors with different opinions, pnwmom Mar 2014 #65

The Children's Hospital cannot respond to many of the allegations made by the parents, because they MADem Mar 2014 #69

The parents asked the judge to lift the gag order. It was the hospital that's been trying to cover pnwmom Mar 2014 #70

No--not "Boston" has experts--Children's Hospital in Boston has experts. MADem Mar 2014 #73

While Children's Hospital might have experts on mitochondrial disorder, my understanding is that LisaL Mar 2014 #90

Patient privacy laws would prevent you from knowing that. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. MADem Mar 2014 #97

I can only go by what is being reported. LisaL Mar 2014 #102

I can only go by what's being reported as well, and I have to say, my read of this situation MADem Mar 2014 #124

Well, judging by the way she is looking now, she might not have a long term. LisaL Mar 2014 #127

How is she looking now? All we have are dire reports from her parents. MADem Mar 2014 #132

You are not seriously suggesting that a 15 year old told this judge she prefers to be in a secure LisaL Mar 2014 #148

What I am "seriously suggesting" is that the judge used something called "judgment" MADem Mar 2014 #194

Then you haven't seen the more recent photos of her. LisaL Mar 2014 #202

And you have? You have a link, of course. .... ? nt MADem Apr 2014 #204

Google is your friend. LisaL Apr 2014 #211

It's your friend too and you made the claim so you're the one who needs to do the work. nt MADem Apr 2014 #212

I made the claim that I have seen the photos. LisaL Apr 2014 #213

How can I see the photos you say you've seen if you don't show them to me? See how THAT works? MADem Apr 2014 #215

K&R Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #5

Charles Pierce wrote a good article on this octoberlib Mar 2014 #11

The religious right stepped into the vacuum. We should have been there first; pnwmom Mar 2014 #43

These parenst are abusive gerogie2 Mar 2014 #24

evidence of abuse? nt magical thyme Mar 2014 #39

Look at the interview on FNC with Kelly megen. gerogie2 Mar 2014 #41

I watched it and don't see a single thing TorchTheWitch Mar 2014 #68

Those parents are no more abusive to her than Will Pit is to his wife. pnwmom Mar 2014 #44

Exactly. LisaL Mar 2014 #46

Kick! nt Logical Mar 2014 #60

"The nazi communist state of Massachusetts" Paladin Mar 2014 #168

It doesn't have to be a tragic situation. LisaL Mar 2014 #172

Can I just say I'm fascinated by this thread. Well done everyone! riderinthestorm Mar 2014 #185