General Discussion

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

164. It's relevant if you want to talk about the philosophical gist of her work.

Tue Apr 1, 2014, 12:17 AM

Apr 2014

I mean, Humphrey Bogart never said the exact words "play it again sam", but that doesn't exactly change the plot of Casablanca.

A general tenet of Dworkin's work was that the act of penetrative hetero sex is in and of itself inherently problematic in all circumstances AND furthermore it is inherently non-consensual "under Patriarchy"--- which for Dworkin meant "on Planet Earth".

Whether that translates out to "all sex is rape" or fudges around the edges of it, I suppose is debatable. It's [link: it is the stated position of the Savage Death Island Chapter of Spinster Aunts International that, in a patriarchy, “consensual sex” (between women and dudes) doesn’t even exist.|worth noting that modern-day followers of Dworkin are more than happy to defend that same sentiment.]

...beyond that, as to what this thread was posted in response to, I don't think Dworkin herself is really all that relevant to the larger discussions around Rape Culture. In fact she's only relevant to a dwindling number of people, in general.

But if people want to imply that she's being somehow unfairly maligned; she's not. Even if the quote is not directly attributable to her, her views were fairly well and repeatedly in line with the sentiment.

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Andrea Dworkin NEVER said "all sex is rape" [View all] Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 OP

no, neither did. then again, anti feminists really do not let facts get in their way. seabeyond Mar 2014 #1

I understand your feelings Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #5

And she is right. KitSileya Mar 2014 #9

Thanks. That's helpful. Chathamization Mar 2014 #153

I am amazed here by the number of folks Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #154

That's how it is. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #161

I read the article in which she said this. Atman Mar 2014 #2

so penthouse put something dworkin said out of context to diss her? so surprised. seabeyond Mar 2014 #3

Under which context does that make sense? Hip_Flask Mar 2014 #4

See, above post Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #7

Under the context where penthouse was frightened of the influence of feminists and wanted Squinch Mar 2014 #63

And yet free internet porn destroyed penthouse's business model far more effectively than Dworkin Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #111

You read, in Penthouse, Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #6

Well that settles it BainsBane Mar 2014 #8

Leave it to you to entirely miss the point. Atman Mar 2014 #14

You read an article BainsBane Mar 2014 #16

It was an INTERVIEW. Atman Mar 2014 #18

Did you see the interview? BainsBane Mar 2014 #20

Do you EVER, EVER actually read what anyone posts, or just make stuff up? Atman Mar 2014 #24

That was a rhetorical question, right? 11 Bravo Mar 2014 #28

This message was self-deleted by its author Squinch Mar 2014 #67

Right BainsBane Apr 2014 #251

Do you always, always insit that the only possible conversation BainsBane Apr 2014 #250

So I am only supposed to accept the Penthouse interview was fake? Atman Apr 2014 #252

Paglia or Dworkin BainsBane Apr 2014 #255

"...because you think you remember reading something in Penthouse equates with absolute truth..." Atman Apr 2014 #256

Question BainsBane Apr 2014 #258

I have searched. I get mixed results. Atman Apr 2014 #259

Okay, you're right BainsBane Apr 2014 #271

Here BainsBane Apr 2014 #275

Except it wasn't 1994 Atman Apr 2014 #278

Have I? BainsBane Apr 2014 #279

Just read anything you've ever posted. Atman Apr 2014 #280

In other words, you have no proof because you made shit up BainsBane Apr 2014 #282

BTW, I get supportive PM's, too. Atman Apr 2014 #262

Who's making stuff up now? BainsBane Apr 2014 #264

There is no point, because everyone else can read them! Atman Apr 2014 #266

Oh, you retracted them BainsBane Apr 2014 #269

Here is what you do... Atman Apr 2014 #253

You insisted repeatedly it was true BainsBane Apr 2014 #257

GAWD that was painful to read Tsiyu Apr 2014 #303

I'm reading an autobiography of a former child star, closeupready Mar 2014 #38

That's why interviews are taped. Atman Mar 2014 #39

You would think Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #134

Seriously? This is what you are going to the wall on? Penthouse's journalistic integrity? Squinch Mar 2014 #66

No, absolutely not. Atman Mar 2014 #68

You are widely misunderstood. It must be difficult for you. Squinch Mar 2014 #75

Nope. I am quite comfortable in my beliefs. Atman Mar 2014 #79

Yes. We all work for Democratic causes. Why are you pointing out that you do? Squinch Mar 2014 #82

I'm just at talking about Bain. It is well documented. Atman Mar 2014 #84

Apparently it's difficult for some, that Dworkin is "misunderstood" Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #102

Perfect. Atman Mar 2014 #105

I'm honestly not sure what to think. I'm no great admirer of hers, but I don't entirely dismiss her nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #135

She was a product of her experiences Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #137

I agree completely with this post. Her ideas sure as hell didn't come from nowhere. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #140

I think on that, you're right. Many of her most ardent allies felt she had lost touch with reality Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #160

I haven't seen anybody saying she is a voice to be listened to, just defending her from the lies cui bono Apr 2014 #178

The only people I've seen bring her up initially are people arguing against feminist issues. seabeyond Apr 2014 #180

I've never read her and the fact that she is being villified and used as a tool cui bono Apr 2014 #184

me too. i know what i have read of her little piece people use, seabeyond Apr 2014 #185

Yeah, that could be interesting. cui bono Apr 2014 #274

I consider myself a feminist and I've never heard of her, before now. 2banon Apr 2014 #243

I suspect it's because she comes up as a name on radical feminist sites cui bono Apr 2014 #276

amazing.. sounds like rush limpballs followers.. 2banon Apr 2014 #288

I think you can download everything from this link. CrispyQ Apr 2014 #306

I agree that accuracy is important. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #182

She's a topic of this thread because someone else wrongly accused her in his OP cui bono Apr 2014 #183

Yes, but this thread is about her, specifically what she did or did not say. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #186

Agreed. n/t cui bono Apr 2014 #187

Her health was beginning to fail Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #195

Hmmm Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #136

With this thread as inspiration, I went to the wiki page on her - wow. closeupready Mar 2014 #146

I wouldn't say "tainted" her writing or ideas, but informed them Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #148

I suspect that many who are beaten and/or raped do closeupready Mar 2014 #156

Beatings and sexual assault leave their mark Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #199

I think it's only changed a little, unfortunately. I'm 29 and graduated high school in 2003. nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #272

The level of violence lurking just below the surface Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #293

I know exactly what you mean. Other men often frighten or intimidate me without even consciously nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #294

I live in the South Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #296

Good for you. Everyone needs to deal with this in their own way, and your way is at least nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #297

Women are not the only ones afraid of men. Men are afraid of other men. CrispyQ Apr 2014 #307

i have not studied her either. i recently downloaded her stuff. seabeyond Mar 2014 #151

It's sad that she is condemned; on the other hand, closeupready Mar 2014 #155

Her book "Letters From a War Zone" thucythucy Apr 2014 #230

yes. i have heard of that. and yes, that was what i was told to particularly read. excellent seabeyond Apr 2014 #234

excellent idea! thucythucy Apr 2014 #236

ahhhh. and btw, seabeyond Apr 2014 #237

Ah, the old guilt by association fallacy BainsBane Apr 2014 #254

Ah, you sure do have an active imagination. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #260

I am far from an expert on such matters BainsBane Apr 2014 #263

If there are conservatives who agree with me that the 1st Amendment is important Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #265

This thread came out of the thread seeking to deny rape culture BainsBane Apr 2014 #267

I've said at least 3 times in this thread, I felt that bringing Dworkin up in the context of those Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #268

That ignores the issue of separatist feminism BainsBane Apr 2014 #273

You and I will just have to disagree. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #283

I would like to extend appreciation to you. MadrasT Apr 2014 #308

Thanks... I think! Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #309

LOL. Just for that I am kicking it again. MadrasT Apr 2014 #310

Right on. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #311

self deleted lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #169

Excuse me? BainsBane Apr 2014 #171

Interesting allegation. Or maybe a false memory? LanternWaste Mar 2014 #17

From the link to Snopes: Maedhros Mar 2014 #46

as someone who has been on the recieving end of penatrive intercourse and who is male dsc Mar 2014 #89

I think that Dworkin was using "violent" differently than what many are imagining. Maedhros Mar 2014 #101

that I can buy dsc Mar 2014 #104

Part of what must be considered is the mechanics of the act Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #138

Think also of the language used Scootaloo Mar 2014 #158

+1. good stuff. love our words. beyond meaning. nt seabeyond Apr 2014 #167

loved Gloria Steinem's take on the "envelopement" Scout Apr 2014 #221

Sounds ve-e-l-l-ly intelesting. Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #295

You did, eh? Well, then, quote it from the publication, and MineralMan Mar 2014 #23

I posted the date...I believe it was 1978. Atman Mar 2014 #26

Actually, it was the April, 1987 issue. MineralMan Mar 2014 #34

No, it was in 1978. I know because I know where I was living at the time. Atman Mar 2014 #42

I can find no reference to an interview of Dworkin in Penthouse MineralMan Mar 2014 #50

I will make an admission of guilt here! (See, I'm an honest guy!) Atman Mar 2014 #45

"Camile Paglia." ha ha ha ha. i am laughing, cause the seabeyond Mar 2014 #49

So, you can't really remember, but you post anyhow. MineralMan Mar 2014 #60

Well, no...it would appear my memory is just fine. Atman Mar 2014 #61

I'm not being insulting. I'm saying you misstated something, and then MineralMan Mar 2014 #62

I find that being honest is never embarassing. Atman Mar 2014 #65

I have read the entire thread and all posts in it. MineralMan Mar 2014 #69

I made no joke about it. Please...post my "joke." Atman Mar 2014 #73

Do you get that the problem there wasn't Bain responding to you, but your insistence on something Squinch Mar 2014 #72

I get the problem is that Bain constantly twists people's post into bullshit that was never said. Atman Mar 2014 #77

Do you see that you are doing exactly what you are accusing her of doing? Squinch Mar 2014 #81

The difference is specifics. Atman Mar 2014 #86

Making shit up, there, aren't you? Saying she said something that she never said, aren't you? Squinch Mar 2014 #87

Nope. Stand by my statement. Bain does this every day. Atman Mar 2014 #88

And you're doing it today. Squinch Mar 2014 #91

No, I am not. Atman Mar 2014 #92

Well, then, by all means, keep reading her posts closely and complaining about them! Squinch Mar 2014 #93

I'm making up NOTHING. Atman Mar 2014 #96

You CAN'T be done! She'll never repent unless you keep complaining about her! Squinch Mar 2014 #100

Give it a rest. Desert805 Mar 2014 #106

And might YOU be projecting here? Squinch Mar 2014 #109

This isn't gonna be a big insult laden exchange. Desert805 Mar 2014 #112

Given your insult laden salvo, it's too late to decide it's not going to be insult laden. Squinch Mar 2014 #113

Keep trying. Desert805 Mar 2014 #115

Given that you showed up out of the blue to join the conversation, it appears you do. Squinch Mar 2014 #118

I think the better question is WHO he might be projecting. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2014 #124

Clearly. Isn't it nice when the kids come back to visit? Squinch Mar 2014 #125

We don't even get a chance to miss them and then *poof* they're back again. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2014 #126

They grow and clone themselves so fast! Squinch Mar 2014 #127

In this case you just admitted to being honestly wrong Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #143

Uh, wow Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #142

you mean mercuryblues Mar 2014 #117

This might help a bit: Raine1967 Mar 2014 #121

I have quoted from that interview Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #144

so what if she did? does she represent all feminists. is she even that imp in the feminist movement? La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2014 #10

I believe there would be a lot to discuss with Dworkin Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #78

pulling my copy of "Intercourse" off the shelf here . . . . zazen Mar 2014 #11

Precisely Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #19

She refers to the "normal fuck for the normal man" in the book quotes NickB79 Mar 2014 #32

No. Atman Mar 2014 #37

husbands were allowed to legally rape his wife. nt seabeyond Mar 2014 #43

yes. a husband was still legally allowed to rape his wife. seabeyond Mar 2014 #40

I understand it was legal. I wanted to know if it was normal NickB79 Mar 2014 #44

we do not know most husbands or their attitude of sex in the 70's, do we. seabeyond Mar 2014 #47

OK, I can see that. So now that spousal rape is illegal NickB79 Mar 2014 #54

some of us .... women, feel it is significant that only a couple decades ago, it was legal to RAPE seabeyond Mar 2014 #64

It's not as if these ideas, these "norms," just disappear within a generation or two. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #141

I'm not sure it's possible to fairly answer this question. Lyric Apr 2014 #207

I have argued the same across different threads. KitSileya Apr 2014 #211

legal rape. and then we wonder why rapists get confised. but hey.... do not be mentioning that seabeyond Apr 2014 #215

Until fairly recent times Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #53

Glad I grew up in the 90's instead if that's the case NickB79 Mar 2014 #56

My generation has a lot to answer for, but then, we were part of the Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #59

meh. Every generation does that. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #116

Well, I hope never to become part of the "establishment" Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #128

I'm sure it depends on the individual. Then and now. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #139

Yes, speaking as a married woman in 1971, it was very very much the NORM. n/t 2banon Apr 2014 #244

Since I haven't read the book NickB79 Mar 2014 #41

she does slightly in the beginning, but I'd look to her surviving partner John Stoltenberg zazen Mar 2014 #76

constructs and other rhetorical acrobatics Supersedeas Apr 2014 #248

But but but...alleged comments she made decades ago prove Rex Mar 2014 #12

Of course, no one said that. Atman Mar 2014 #15

Please cite the title of the publication Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #21

No page numbers. Must not be true. Atman Mar 2014 #31

I am quoting her from sources Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #71

The snopes article is about Catherine MacKinnon. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #83

The snopes' article also says Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #90

It says she disavowed it. Whether or not she uttered that precise combination of words is Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #95

Do we get to "disavow" previous DU posts? Atman Mar 2014 #98

You have already admitted in other posts in this thread Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #150

You have pulled a cluster of senetences out Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #133

It's relevant if you want to talk about the philosophical gist of her work. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #164

not true. there is a difference between rape, as you and others want to make it. and violent seabeyond Apr 2014 #170

I think you're responding to someone else's post, not mine. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #176

yes. i do not think you can take what she actually said, and say it is the same as saying all sex seabeyond Apr 2014 #179

I've given several examples of things she actually DID say, and they're all over the map. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #181

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #174

True Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #194

Here's the thing. First off, I believe the specific quote we're discussing comes from "Our Blood". Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #235

Rather than address various quotes Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #239

Are you qualified to assert general tenets about Dworkin's work? Maedhros Apr 2014 #277

Well, that's certainly a fascinating opinion you have there. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #284

Well, to make a claim of understanding of an author's "general tenets" implies more Maedhros Apr 2014 #285

It's not limited sources. That's a fairly extensive excerpt, and its by no means the only bit I'm Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #286

No thank you. You are taking a belligerent tone. Maedhros Apr 2014 #289

Heh Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #299

That last one is bizarre. As though an erection weren't a matter of simple biology, which it is. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #145

with so little there, we are all clueless what she was saying. it is worthless to seabeyond Mar 2014 #152

Very true. n/t nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #163

Maybe if you say it, it'll be okay. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #162

Without knowing much about Ms. Dworkin, I have a question NickB79 Mar 2014 #51

You have to actually read when she said. I have posted Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #57

. LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #132

Oh they didn't? There is a MEGA thread in GD that's premise is JUST THAT. Rex Mar 2014 #25

Sincerely...I'm not sure what you're saying. Atman Mar 2014 #29

Making fun of another thread in GD...the premise is weak Rex Mar 2014 #30

Thanks. Atman Mar 2014 #33

Yeah sorry, I guess I should have given more detail in the first reply. Rex Mar 2014 #36

The premise is, indeed, weak. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #110

She should not be held as the 'gold standard' for if today we have a rape culture in America. Rex Mar 2014 #122

No, it should not. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #123

Actually, someone did say that: thucythucy Apr 2014 #231

ha ha ha. ya. that. lol. thanks for the laugh. i am outta here. nt seabeyond Mar 2014 #22

"Nobody said that." Really? There is a MEGA thread on it in GD! Rex Mar 2014 #27

No, she didn't LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #13

She was describing intercourse Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #48

I see the outrage BainsBane Mar 2014 #52

Or that they simply prefer sex on their terms Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #55

Oh, yes BainsBane Mar 2014 #58

yep yep yep. nt seabeyond Mar 2014 #74

yes yes yes. oh, i like the smart talk. you guys are getting me all that. seabeyond Mar 2014 #70

"claptrap" like coitus Major Nikon Apr 2014 #229

No... It's just more bullshit MRA's like to spread Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #35

weird--I reread the posts (including mine) on Dworkin's memorial tribute wall on Sunday zazen Mar 2014 #80

Huh? What? Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #85

Excuse me ... In_The_Wind Mar 2014 #99

Juror #3 has a good question... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #120

Does it really matter what she said exactly? CFLDem Mar 2014 #94

I think I would prefer a more professional Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #130

Her own husband didn't believe her rape account Major Nikon Apr 2014 #202

Source please... Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #213

... Major Nikon Apr 2014 #219

Thank you, Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #225

I have no idea what conditions she did or didn't have Major Nikon Apr 2014 #227

A disconnect from your reality, sure, but not from hers. Maedhros Apr 2014 #281

The idea that everyone gets their own personal reality is not a good one Major Nikon Apr 2014 #287

Who here read Dworkin in law school? RainDog Apr 2014 #290

She also lost her legal battles Major Nikon Apr 2014 #292

Dworkin was not an academic RainDog Apr 2014 #301

One's reality is the sum of one's experiences. Maedhros Apr 2014 #291

Nobody but the insane and the GOP get their own version of facts and reality Major Nikon Apr 2014 #298

You've missed the point. Probably on purpose. Maedhros Apr 2014 #300

Perhaps because I didn't agree with it Major Nikon Apr 2014 #304

So were the Marquis de Sade, Nietzsche, and (arguably) Hunter S. Thompson. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #147

And no she didn't say it CFLDem Mar 2014 #97

you mean "implied," not inferred, and your grammatically incorrect insult to her memory is pathetic zazen Mar 2014 #103

So what did she mean about penetrative sex being "immune to reform?" Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #107

I don't have that book, but you could start with reading works by her ex-partner John Stoltenberg zazen Mar 2014 #114

Stoltenberg identifies as Gay, and they repeatedly said no, they didn't have sex. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #119

Thank you. That was very well said. nomorenomore08 Mar 2014 #149

Well, trying to derive meaning from a sentence fragment Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #131

Are you suggesting I made it up? I didn't. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #157

can you provide the link that you copy and pasted that from? boston bean Apr 2014 #175

Why? Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #177

No. I wanted to read the entire passage. boston bean Apr 2014 #193

If you google "Andrea Dworkin Our Blood", one of the first results is a pdf link. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #233

Nope, not suggesting that at all Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #196

Again, you need to read the context Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #129

Shame on you. You're not a proper democrat unless you assist with rehabilitating her reputation. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #173

But she did say Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #108

It is a rare individual indeed Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #198

you are good. you are so patient. you are so respectful in your responses. seabeyond Apr 2014 #200

The mens groups has a real infatuation with her boston bean Mar 2014 #159

ha ha. ya. a while back SOME of the men liked getting a most unappealing picture to seabeyond Apr 2014 #172

A gender group discussing gender subjects Major Nikon Apr 2014 #204

The mere act of sexual intercourse can mean many different things to different people. nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #165

My understanding is that she was speaking of a womans "duty". boston bean Apr 2014 #166

I think it's a good question to ask, in general - are any of us truly "free" to make choices? nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #168

Not to mention, that until 1993, in some places, marital duty by law. KitSileya Apr 2014 #188

But anyone who objects to any of this is just a "feminazi" (per MRA-speak). nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #190

Yup. Very disappointing every time these topics are discussed on DU. KitSileya Apr 2014 #191

"Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer..." davidn3600 Apr 2014 #189

I am pressed for time at the moment, but am willing to offer Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #197

You can CFLDem Apr 2014 #192

Their claim is that coitus under the patriarchy is harmful and not fully consensual Major Nikon Apr 2014 #201

this quote in the 70's when it was legal for a husband to rape a wife, kinda is their point. seabeyond Apr 2014 #203

Dworkin's book, Intercourse wasn't published until 1987 Major Nikon Apr 2014 #205

Still legal to rape wife in some states into the nineties seabeyond Apr 2014 #206

Which is tangential to Dworkin's et al claims Major Nikon Apr 2014 #208

read lyric above. i am not wasting any more time with discussion. that a husband is legally seabeyond Apr 2014 #209

Did you actually read Dworkin's book, Intercourse? Major Nikon Apr 2014 #210

i have been doing you so long, we know each others steps. now, intercourse..... seabeyond Apr 2014 #214

So you are convinced I'm wrong about a subject you are ignorant by your own admission Major Nikon Apr 2014 #218

i know you are wrong cause you discount the time she was addressing, you have to change her words seabeyond Apr 2014 #220

So I'm wrong because someone else may think I'm wrong Major Nikon Apr 2014 #222

no. i clearly expressed three reasons you were wrong. and lookie, you HAD to change my words... lol seabeyond Apr 2014 #223

Point of order Major Nikon Apr 2014 #224

First, Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #212

Okay, then do you agree with and approve of what she did say? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #216

Defending the accuracy and context of a person's quotes Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #238

Funny, I'm not reminded of the condition of slaves in the US when I think of Dworkin. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #240

Really? Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #241

I didn't really want to get into this RainDog Apr 2014 #242

Well said. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #245

Dworkin should have stuck to "I think that" RainDog Apr 2014 #249

That right there is why YOU are one of my favorite DU members. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #261

Oh. I thought it was b/c I liked music other than the GD RainDog Apr 2014 #270

Historical context is somewhat relevant Major Nikon Apr 2014 #217

We have no idea what Dworkin would Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #226

I'm not convinced her points were ever all that relevant Major Nikon Apr 2014 #228

Thanks for posting this. I always saw the way Dworkin's "quote" was twisted thucythucy Apr 2014 #232

Ooh! Ooh! A feminism thread! KamaAina Apr 2014 #246

I think you are getting in at the end of the dust up. Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #247

I'm willing to concede... NaturalHigh Apr 2014 #302

It's complicated Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #305