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In reply to the discussion: How pragmatic were the pragmatists when it came to the Iraq War and gay marriage? [View all]woo me with science
(32,139 posts)52. "Micro steps." " a series of small steps to reach the goal"
Nope. The goals are not the same. The direction is not the same.
That fiction doesn't fly anymore.
Absolutely false. Overall, this country is being moved relentlessly in the wrong direction.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4712258
To claim that progress is being made but is merely incremental is overwhelmingly untrue in the most important areas of policy. We are being thrown bones on social issues but inequality has been escalated viciously through policy, the power of corporations is being relentlessly increased, our fundamental civil liberties are being dismantled, journalism is under assault, peaceful protesters are being surveilled and brutally suppressed, whistleblowers are being persecuted, our president has claimed the right to imprison indefinitely and even kill without due process, militarization of our police forces has been expanded, our public education system is being corporatized and even dismantled, corporate power over the internet is being enabled, our environment is being opened to drilling and fracking, and a new pipeline is on the horizon. In addition to all this, this government is engaging in mass surveillance against its own citizens and assaulting us with propaganda and disinformation.
Corporatists have been installed in virtually every area of government by our Democratic president.
The most significant policy proposal on the horizon is the most predatory free trade agreement in history, which will force Americans to compete with workers in Third World countries. It will kill jobs, reduce wages for over 90 percent of American workers, restrict freedom on the internet, make obtaining life-saving medications more difficult and more expensive, and allow multinational corporations to sue for profits and overrule national decisions on everything from wages to regulations for environment and safety. It is an assault on all of us, and it is unconscionable coming from a Democratic president. However, it is wholly consistent with this administration's long record of working on behalf of corporate interests.
I expected your response, though. The unwritten rules for Third Way messaging on this board require that any post like the one I wrote be countered immediately. We are relentlessly badgered to uphold the illusion that our corporate Democrats really do care about the same issues, principles, and goals that we do, even though their actions relentlessly pursue the opposite. As much as we are told by the corporate crew working this board that War is Peace and the chocolate ration has been increased, we have lived with our eyes open during these past five years, and we have watched first-hand what the flooding of our party with corporate money has done to its behavior...and to us.
Nothing is fixed until we are honest about what is happening. All the propaganda notwithstanding, more and more courageous liberals are standing up to do just that. Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Robert Reich....the launch of FirstLook....Bill Moyers' excellent work. The new statement at the Daily Kos that they will work to defeat the malignant influence of the Third Way in our party....These are all positive signs.
People who care deeply about this country are telling the truth about what we really are facing...the corporate hijacking of our party and our government....because the rose-colored glasses are malignant. The rose-colored glasses are a deliberate corporate lie, and they prevent real change.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4712258
To claim that progress is being made but is merely incremental is overwhelmingly untrue in the most important areas of policy. We are being thrown bones on social issues but inequality has been escalated viciously through policy, the power of corporations is being relentlessly increased, our fundamental civil liberties are being dismantled, journalism is under assault, peaceful protesters are being surveilled and brutally suppressed, whistleblowers are being persecuted, our president has claimed the right to imprison indefinitely and even kill without due process, militarization of our police forces has been expanded, our public education system is being corporatized and even dismantled, corporate power over the internet is being enabled, our environment is being opened to drilling and fracking, and a new pipeline is on the horizon. In addition to all this, this government is engaging in mass surveillance against its own citizens and assaulting us with propaganda and disinformation.
Corporatists have been installed in virtually every area of government by our Democratic president.
The most significant policy proposal on the horizon is the most predatory free trade agreement in history, which will force Americans to compete with workers in Third World countries. It will kill jobs, reduce wages for over 90 percent of American workers, restrict freedom on the internet, make obtaining life-saving medications more difficult and more expensive, and allow multinational corporations to sue for profits and overrule national decisions on everything from wages to regulations for environment and safety. It is an assault on all of us, and it is unconscionable coming from a Democratic president. However, it is wholly consistent with this administration's long record of working on behalf of corporate interests.
I expected your response, though. The unwritten rules for Third Way messaging on this board require that any post like the one I wrote be countered immediately. We are relentlessly badgered to uphold the illusion that our corporate Democrats really do care about the same issues, principles, and goals that we do, even though their actions relentlessly pursue the opposite. As much as we are told by the corporate crew working this board that War is Peace and the chocolate ration has been increased, we have lived with our eyes open during these past five years, and we have watched first-hand what the flooding of our party with corporate money has done to its behavior...and to us.
Nothing is fixed until we are honest about what is happening. All the propaganda notwithstanding, more and more courageous liberals are standing up to do just that. Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Robert Reich....the launch of FirstLook....Bill Moyers' excellent work. The new statement at the Daily Kos that they will work to defeat the malignant influence of the Third Way in our party....These are all positive signs.
People who care deeply about this country are telling the truth about what we really are facing...the corporate hijacking of our party and our government....because the rose-colored glasses are malignant. The rose-colored glasses are a deliberate corporate lie, and they prevent real change.
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How pragmatic were the pragmatists when it came to the Iraq War and gay marriage? [View all]
Bjorn Against
Apr 2014
OP
Actually, the pragmatists knew that if Obama supported marriage equality before the 2008 election
JoePhilly
Apr 2014
#1
I believe Pragmatists think that ripping apart Hillary Clinton and dragging...
Walk away
Apr 2014
#82
political currents changed dramatically over time. Pretending otherwise is dishonest.
KittyWampus
Apr 2014
#101
Those that claim they are pragmatic are really saying they love the status quo which is killing
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#22
People who called themselves pragmatists were sure Obama could not support marriage
Bluenorthwest
Apr 2014
#24
And political currents have changed. And you darned well know it. Opposition collapsed.
KittyWampus
Apr 2014
#102
The idealists fight for life, liberty and freedoms. The pragmatists groveled before George Bush
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#25
How do you know that we would have gotten nothing? With your thinking we still would be a colony of
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#32
I am on the field trying for a touchdown, it's you on the sideline content with a 20 point
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#38
Isnt the definition of pragmatism, "sitting in the stands"? My complaint isnt with the yardage
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#110
7 million out of 50 million, at a cost of a half trillion dollar per year giveaway to big insurance
Doctor_J
Apr 2014
#41
When the defense is playing to stop your ground game it is a perfect time to throw the bomb.
Ed Suspicious
Apr 2014
#43
I'm glad he got the ACA. I spend much of my day defending it against actual people
Ed Suspicious
Apr 2014
#68
I am utter, humble awe of the ass-kicking 4th and 26 you have been on this thread.
msanthrope
Apr 2014
#74
labeling someone who works in accordance with deeply held convictions as an idealist is convenient..
LanternWaste
Apr 2014
#88
It's absurd to keep pretending that Third Way Democrats have the same goals
woo me with science
Apr 2014
#12
I offer a different view. We live in a society that is heavily authoritarian influenced.
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#78
I think you are giving The Team way too much credit. Let's use indefinite detention as
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#77
You seem to be trying to rationalize what I am saying. My point is that one side does not
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#91
Third Way Democrats are re-branded Republicans. Corp leaders arent stupid.
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#76
It's absurd to think that Ideologues can have a reasonable discussion. There are so many DU'ers
KittyWampus
Apr 2014
#104
They were preparing defenses for the NSA and drones. Looking "forward" donchya know?
Tierra_y_Libertad
Apr 2014
#23
I wasnt around here back then but I find it hard to believe there were many supporting the iraq war
DCBob
Apr 2014
#31
There is a reason I have been putting the word "pragmatist" in quotes in this thread
Bjorn Against
Apr 2014
#37
it's like "Biblical literalist": just something to brandish, nothing to do with *reading* the text
MisterP
Apr 2014
#60
It was pragmatic to support the war. What other excuse could Clinton-Sachs have?
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#79
I appreciate the question and will be glad to answer it, however, we are discussing something
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#96
You might have a point if there were many (any) DUers who supported the IWR or opposed gay marriage
DanTex
Apr 2014
#83
The prevailing headwinds against gay marriage finally abated. Hence, such dramatic forward progress.
KittyWampus
Apr 2014
#98