General Discussion

cui bono

(19,926 posts)

348. The metadata collection was not legal when it started though.

Wed Apr 2, 2014, 07:21 PM

Apr 2014

It was pushed to be legalized in 2008 and was signed into law - and thought to be unconstitutional by many due to its violation of the 4th Amendment. Then the current admin extended and expanded it. So while it may be technically legal now, it was not when it was started and I don't think the general public understood what was going on. Simply legalizing it doesn't make it the right thing to do. I wish it were mere "overkill" but it is far more egregious than that, and far more troubling that a Democrat has legalized it and expanded it.

I think that's why it resonated so much. People are surprised that this is still happening and more so than before. And that it was happening to American citizens in such a haphazard manner.

I don't agree at all with your comment that Snowden's leaks are merely political. He gave the docs to Greenwald and the Guardian. He's not necessarily the one picking the times of release, but even if he were, don't you think it makes sense to bring up the issues that coincide with what's going on in current events so as to shine more light on them? It makes perfect sense to me to do it as a way to ensure that the most attention is paid to that particular aspect. I think it's a smart way of releasing the info.

Again, the activities absolutely are unconstitutional. They violate the 4th Amendment. And they were illegal before they were legal. Legalizing something that's criminal to allow one to do unconstitutional search and seizures is still continuing the same actions that everyone complained against when BushCo did it. I'm still not okay with it.

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Two Different Mindsets at DU [View all] polichick Apr 2014 OP

Both sides have teams, both fighting for Policy Sheepshank Apr 2014 #1

+1. Skidmore Apr 2014 #3

+2 Kaleva Apr 2014 #10

I believe you're being a bit disingenuous here. Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #25

There is likely a *leaning* toward on or the other faction Sheepshank Apr 2014 #73

No I'm jumping on your case because there are two different approaches. Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #103

Thank you for an excellent post. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #133

Excellent response. Le Taz Hot Apr 2014 #201

+1 a whole bunch.......nt Enthusiast Apr 2014 #284

The NSA was the only one Toad mentioned, but it is not the only one. cui bono Apr 2014 #177

Correct. Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #231

+10000 n/t 2banon Apr 2014 #139

It's really simple ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #95

YAH...I'm thinking it really is that simple. :) n/t Sheepshank Apr 2014 #129

Yep. That's all this is. Number23 Apr 2014 #162

Precisely why I am not a Democrat but an Independent. Bandit Apr 2014 #180

Except ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #190

Awkwardly accurate mythology Apr 2014 #279

But what's worse ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #302

Except Bandit Apr 2014 #303

Check your math and history ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #304

And those same people especially Lieberman who sandbagged any progressive legislation Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #350

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #355

I appreciate your perspective. Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #356

I understand ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #357

I think another way to say it would be, Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #359

So very true ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #361

The OP did not make the "teams" you just made. cui bono Apr 2014 #181

+1 Marr Apr 2014 #189

Okay; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #192

Where did she put a value judgement on which one is better? cui bono Apr 2014 #196

Come on, mannn! eom. 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #197

and furthermore Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #215

As evidenced ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #219

I disagree. The "team" group is against criticism of policies they themselves criticized Bush for. n cui bono Apr 2014 #168

Thats the disturbing part. Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #349

I disagree. One side never enters policy discussions if they even remotely rhett o rick Apr 2014 #226

I disagree with you disagreement Sheepshank Apr 2014 #232

The "Team Obama" side never, ever, discuss issues unless it's to say that they agree with rhett o rick Apr 2014 #237

Since I didn't participate nor read such a thread Sheepshank Apr 2014 #247

I am on Team Democratic Principles. I will applaud Pres Obama when rhett o rick Apr 2014 #249

Oh gawd...really the unknown, idealistic, made up, non existant candidate team? Sheepshank Apr 2014 #250

Since you are not sure Caretha Apr 2014 #242

principles that are liberal in their idealogical origin Puzzledtraveller Apr 2014 #2

I'm definitely on the policy team Glitterati Apr 2014 #4

Won't give the hero worship crap up will ya'? It's had it's day and is gone. lumpy Apr 2014 #30

ROFL, so says Glitterati Apr 2014 #31

up is down, doncha know? grasswire Apr 2014 #108

Oh, don't I know Glitterati Apr 2014 #113

We all knew that Caretha Apr 2014 #243

WOW! I was simply QUOTING President Obama Glitterati Apr 2014 #266

Policies, but I read policy papers for breakfast nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #5

ROFL! 2banon Apr 2014 #142

whatever nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #145

Damn girl, we've needed a master plan here at DU for a while and you just now got around to okaawhatever Apr 2014 #182

I am positive your county has one nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #252

I'd definitely agree with you. Marr Apr 2014 #6

I don't know about you, but I'm fighting for policies: Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #7

How do you feel about the NSA spying? Drones? Escalated whistle blower prosecutions? cui bono Apr 2014 #184

Glad you asked. Clearly you're unaware of my positions on these issues... Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #198

I don't understand why you ridicule Snowden then? Without his action no one was talking cui bono Apr 2014 #218

I'm actually quite flattered that you're so interested in my opinions on various issues. Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #230

If Snowden continues his leakimg he will end up doing more harm than good. lumpy Apr 2014 #258

The metadata collection was not legal when it started though. cui bono Apr 2014 #348

This message was self-deleted by its author rhett o rick Apr 2014 #311

Translation: My team is better than your team. FSogol Apr 2014 #8

You nailed it! greatauntoftriplets Apr 2014 #11

If you are worried about divisiveness Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #14

Of course we 'Bots' should be quiet and demure while the shit is pouring. Whisp Apr 2014 #125

That almost made sense Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #166

You and your buddy are the ones who put the value judgment in there. cui bono Apr 2014 #185

Foment it? Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #229

That's about it. lumpy Apr 2014 #33

so far, that's how the partisans seem to be taking it.. frylock Apr 2014 #141

False. Not there at all. n/t 2banon Apr 2014 #144

No. The OP did not make the "teams" you just made. cui bono Apr 2014 #187

The OP was like a Rorschach test, it seems. Marr Apr 2014 #199

Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! cui bono Apr 2014 #206

LOL Marr Apr 2014 #209

Absolutely. That's why The Team wants to purge the extremist liberals. They think they are better. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #315

Pragmatist vs. Idealogue? Avalux Apr 2014 #9

Want some fun with the word 'pragmatist'? Search DU of the past for posts on Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #27

I'll never forget that whole episode. Marr Apr 2014 #200

Exactly as I remember it. Le Taz Hot Apr 2014 #234

Pragmatism is often misused to justify the status-quo. I believe it's a symptom of rhett o rick Apr 2014 #316

Is this the same as the "incremental progress" argument? woo me with science Apr 2014 #76

I agree with you; no horse in this race. Avalux Apr 2014 #84

My take, exactly. +1! Enthusiast Apr 2014 #286

Goals, mainly... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #12

I'm fighting for the team that is best situated to advance the policies that benefit all Americans. MADem Apr 2014 #13

Hear hear. A responsible post, thanks. lumpy Apr 2014 #36

Yet another OP fostering division on DU... Spazito Apr 2014 #15

Huh? No way Spazito old boy-that's your opinion, no one else's. n/t bobthedrummer Apr 2014 #17

No one elses opinion ? That's your opinion. lumpy Apr 2014 #38

An advocate, lumpy? Does Spazito need an advocate? Huh? bobthedrummer Apr 2014 #75

Don't know, bob. Do you? lumpy Apr 2014 #262

HUH???? nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #21

The OP is merely a different version of the Obamabots vs the deep thinkers divisive garbage... Spazito Apr 2014 #26

Actually the OP is an example of what goes on at Political Science nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #28

Actually, it's not, it is deliberate fomentation of division already present on DU... Spazito Apr 2014 #34

Point one, it was alerted, and it was a 6-0 against a hide nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #44

A jury decision to hide or keep is meaningless to my point... Spazito Apr 2014 #52

What? That we have SEVERAL groups here? nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #54

If you are recognizing there are shades of grey and there is not an 'either/or' as premised ... Spazito Apr 2014 #62

Those are the two over reaching groups that political scientits nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #68

I guess we don't agree then. n/t Spazito Apr 2014 #69

That's a fact Jack! zappaman Apr 2014 #72

Building coalitions Fairgo Apr 2014 #239

If I do I will be merciselesly attacked nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #251

I'd be interested to see how that worked here.. Good suggestion. 2banon Apr 2014 #269

Sometimes Caretha Apr 2014 #246

Me too. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #287

Thank you! I have spent a lot of time in academia so... polichick Apr 2014 #50

I knew exactly where you were coming from nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #57

Indeed, crap or carp. lumpy Apr 2014 #40

We'll mark you down as a "Go Team!" mindset 1000words Apr 2014 #37

Your post helps further my contention the OP was posted to foment further dissention... Spazito Apr 2014 #45

Just following your lead 1000words Apr 2014 #48

Au Contraire, you couldn't be further from the truth.. 2banon Apr 2014 #136

Further dissention... Caretha Apr 2014 #248

And yet you're not talking about policy here. randome Apr 2014 #16

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Glaug-Eldare Apr 2014 #18

another example of a spiteful alert nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #20

Another example the jury system works Brother Buzz Apr 2014 #29

Alerters should be ID'd in the event of an 0-6 LEAVE 1000words Apr 2014 #39

I dunno about that, but the alert freeze is good. Glaug-Eldare Apr 2014 #60

I thoroughly agree. grasswire Apr 2014 #114

Oh, ffs. Le Taz Hot Apr 2014 #236

Binary thinking is facile. nt msanthrope Apr 2014 #19

True. There aren't two teams. There are probably a thousand. randome Apr 2014 #22

Agreed Nevernose Apr 2014 #264

I think it depends... Whiskeytide Apr 2014 #23

I side with the Democrats in every issue. Half-Century Man Apr 2014 #24

Do you change your stance ZombieHorde Apr 2014 #55

No, I argued for equality for years (Gay family members and respected friends). Half-Century Man Apr 2014 #77

So then ZombieHorde Apr 2014 #85

I vote democratic, always have. Half-Century Man Apr 2014 #96

So then ZombieHorde Apr 2014 #100

That's fairly accurate. Half-Century Man Apr 2014 #174

You cannot have policy without politics frazzled Apr 2014 #32

Wow. Well said. randome Apr 2014 #41

Politicians campaign on policy - govern as politicians leftstreet Apr 2014 #49

I don't think that's always true: let me give an example frazzled Apr 2014 #176

Well said....One team are Idealists...one team are the Realists... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #56

Not quite, I don't think. Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #118

NSA surveillance is merely "unpalatable"?? marions ghost Apr 2014 #155

There are plenty on DU Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #163

With ya marions ghost Apr 2014 #169

Well said. Some think stating an end goal is the same as ... JoePhilly Apr 2014 #90

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #107

+1 DCBob Apr 2014 #115

No. Both groups are not interested in policy. cui bono Apr 2014 #204

In the immortal words of all those who have been responding to my posts lately frazzled Apr 2014 #223

You read my post and all you saw was the word "bullshit"? You need glasses then. cui bono Apr 2014 #227

Yeah, some of us are in support of things like ending DADT, extending health coverage, DanTex Apr 2014 #35

I see a huge focus on individuals BainsBane Apr 2014 #42

this is it exactly Marrah_G Apr 2014 #43

"it's frustrating" - I agree. Almost every discussion breaks down fast. polichick Apr 2014 #122

No- it's Ideologues v. Pragmatists. What that means in general >>> KittyWampus Apr 2014 #46

Paraphrased, in non-weasel speak: "No, it's Democrats vs. Third Way RWers. Zorra Apr 2014 #120

Warren has the same liberal rating as Udall. joshcryer Apr 2014 #161

Who says, and based on how many votes, exactly? I believe you may be trying to mislead me Zorra Apr 2014 #214

That's my Congress. joshcryer Apr 2014 #238

OK I did. It's based on votes on 8 "liberal" bills. Zorra Apr 2014 #241

Right. Same for Udall. joshcryer Apr 2014 #245

I like non-weasel speak. +1! Enthusiast Apr 2014 #289

What you call "idealogues and pragmatists", I call Marr Apr 2014 #225

Truth Caretha Apr 2014 #257

It's two sides of the same coin. CJCRANE Apr 2014 #47

I get the need to push back against the Republicans. Maedhros Apr 2014 #87

excellent post nt grasswire Apr 2014 #123

Very well said. I am with you. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #290

I'm a policy person. Blue_In_AK Apr 2014 #51

Do you want to share some wonderful County Water Master Plans? nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #58

DURec leftstreet Apr 2014 #53

Agree there are two GD groups that are marions ghost Apr 2014 #59

It appears there is a lack of trust and a level of fear, which is understandable..all considered. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #61

True, loss of trust and a lot of fear-- marions ghost Apr 2014 #117

I don't have a solution and what I meant by, I am not convinced there needs to be one, Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #130

Always policies. 840high Apr 2014 #63

Spot on. nt Demo_Chris Apr 2014 #64

Neither JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #65

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #66

"A Moral Victory is STILL a loss." eom 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #111

So is an immoral victory. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #116

What would ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #124

But what about marions ghost Apr 2014 #143

Then, I still ahead ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #152

Sounds good in theory marions ghost Apr 2014 #160

I see a lot of posts talking about other DUers CJCRANE Apr 2014 #67

You forgot the third. WilliamPitt Apr 2014 #70

+1 bvar22 Apr 2014 #80

I'm all for who's going to give us the better Supreme Court justiceischeap Apr 2014 #71

This message was self-deleted by its author CJCRANE Apr 2014 #74

A simplistic analysis, but accurate. bvar22 Apr 2014 #78

Wow! cui bono Apr 2014 #207

The problem is actually location Blue_Adept Apr 2014 #79

haha! lol and chortle & guffaw. Whisp Apr 2014 #81

I wear no colors, but I can't and won't forget the Nader disaster which brought us 8 years of Bush Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #82

And I cannot forget the five members of the USSC who voted for that nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #86

the curious roles played in that 5 vote majority and the early capitulation reddread Apr 2014 #93

There was one choice that Gore could have taken after the decision nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #97

Wellstone could have backed the CBC reddread Apr 2014 #132

I will be clear nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #135

You have been predicting a civil war for years.... maddezmom Apr 2014 #138

Do you believe that Biden brought us Thomas? Raine1967 Apr 2014 #127

has nothing to do with Thomas reddread Apr 2014 #131

Got it. Thanks for you honest answer. Raine1967 Apr 2014 #146

are you a snake in the grass? a coward making cowardly accusations? reddread Apr 2014 #170

None of the above. nt Raine1967 Apr 2014 #193

My take, exactly. +1! Enthusiast Apr 2014 #292

omg reddread Apr 2014 #89

Oh you don't have to feel for me. I'm the one that believes in strategy rather than whining and Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #323

Your constant whining on nadderites and others might suppress that nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #329

do you remember this also? G_j Apr 2014 #102

I'm not entirely sure what you are responding to. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #153

You, he was responding to you nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #156

Unless you are his personal guardian, I think he should respond for himself nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #157

I am not anybody's personal guardian nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #171

It is how the Congressional Black Caucus G_j Apr 2014 #165

It helps that the only place I saw that nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #173

second best part of that movie ;) reddread Apr 2014 #205

Excellent point. I'd forgotten that very important event. Not Told by the Media. 2banon Apr 2014 #275

Trying to conceal the damage done by the Naderites by pointing out what Republicans Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #244

one might find your response very dismissive of this crucial history G_j Apr 2014 #307

Gore won the popular and elcectoral vote. Full stop. morningfog Apr 2014 #298

Team Shivering Jemmy Apr 2014 #83

there are are some Ignorant Conspiracy Theory types on here JI7 Apr 2014 #88

one more time for the world reddread Apr 2014 #98

That...sounds right. randome Apr 2014 #104

Are you implying the Republicans do not conspire against the majority of America? Fumesucker Apr 2014 #191

it's no secret what republicans want to do and neither was lieberman JI7 Apr 2014 #195

That is one of the most logical ways I've heard it explained. giftedgirl77 Apr 2014 #208

Take away the TEAM, and the POLICIES go nowhere. We need both. eom tarheelsunc Apr 2014 #91

I'm for initiatives that appear to be trying to improve the quality of life on Earth. nt ladjf Apr 2014 #92

Another terrible frame ecstatic Apr 2014 #94

you mean Joe Biden? n/t reddread Apr 2014 #99

No one on here who was concerned with policy made anyone appoint Wall Street cui bono Apr 2014 #213

Somebody made a good point Aerows Apr 2014 #101

Nothing like a good image to go with that nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #105

LOL! n/t Aerows Apr 2014 #148

Not buying the disingenuous framing Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #106

Which "field" are you speaking of? countryjake Apr 2014 #137

2003 Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #159

"More liberal than thou pissing match..." I totally agree with you on that. countryjake Apr 2014 #216

Criticism has never been the issue Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #235

Team. The team wins? Then the policies happen. calimary Apr 2014 #109

I understand what you're saying, however I believe that you are precluding Raine1967 Apr 2014 #110

Utterly wrong. jeff47 Apr 2014 #112

+1 eom. 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #119

The only policy I know that always trumps any type of fighting: DeSwiss Apr 2014 #121

I think the best way to promote progressive policies is to support Democratic candidates. Fozzledick Apr 2014 #126

It's useless, polichick. It's becoming increasingly clear that we are mostly dealing with people, Zorra Apr 2014 #128

BOOM! Rex Apr 2014 #134

BOOM! indeed :) Aerows Apr 2014 #147

I was thinking the same thing after reading it! Rex Apr 2014 #150

+1, +1 reddread Apr 2014 #175

There is a reason why I no longer bother with the weather here nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #149

How could anyone ignore the makeup of the Third Way Board of Trustees? Enthusiast Apr 2014 #294

Proud to K&R quinnox Apr 2014 #140

Two at least RobertEarl Apr 2014 #151

I'm not on any team vi5 Apr 2014 #154

There are sides, and when yours starts to lose momentum we see self-justifying threads like these BeyondGeography Apr 2014 #158

Thread Winner. Obamacare is doing well and I hope that we see an increase in his poll numbers soon Number23 Apr 2014 #164

theres always the opportunity to trim the noise levels reddread Apr 2014 #178

I quite agree. One can either be a liberal Democrat or a Democrat liberal. raouldukelives Apr 2014 #167

what is hard to imagine reddread Apr 2014 #172

No question about it. cui bono Apr 2014 #179

More backslapping flamingdem Apr 2014 #183

DLC randys1 Apr 2014 #186

Policies, not personalities. 99Forever Apr 2014 #188

It's interesting that the people who think this is a divisive OP are the ones who do the "team" cui bono Apr 2014 #194

+++++++ marions ghost Apr 2014 #212

^^THIS is the most important post in this entire thread Glitterati Apr 2014 #318

Well said...Recommend. KoKo Apr 2014 #319

As always, Le Taz Hot Apr 2014 #202

This OP is just a false analysis. DU contains many different mindsets depending on the viewpoint ... kwassa Apr 2014 #203

there are two kinds of people. reddread Apr 2014 #210

There are three kinds of people in the world. kwassa Apr 2014 #211

Yes there are many shades... marions ghost Apr 2014 #220

I think everyone needs to chill, and look for their commonalities. kwassa Apr 2014 #271

I'm with that marions ghost Apr 2014 #277

I have to admit - it's a lot easier to stay positive with the TEAM approach rather than the POLICY Douglas Carpenter Apr 2014 #217

That's a good point marions ghost Apr 2014 #224

Neither - I am fighting for the workers. TBF Apr 2014 #221

thank you my dear polichick. It is my great pleasure to rec you op. cali Apr 2014 #222

Politicians are transitory at best, disposable at worst; principle is not Scootaloo Apr 2014 #228

Then there's those of use who just don't give a F rumdude Apr 2014 #233

Liberal principles and policies over a team any day. Efilroft Sul Apr 2014 #240

Then you shall continue to drink of the Republican cup. In times of crisis like this Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #256

I like throwing rocks at packs of jackals. Efilroft Sul Apr 2014 #260

As I said. In times of crisis... Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #261

meanwhile, toss out those YOU proclaim heretics? what a crock. reddread Apr 2014 #263

No crock. You either join the enemy of your enemy, or you're sunk. Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #265

crocks for days, there is only one strategy in the face of defection reddread Apr 2014 #301

Suit yourself. You're happy with a because-I-damned-well-feel-like-it view. Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #322

The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy. Efilroft Sul Apr 2014 #267

Then mosey on along. Ciao! Enjoy yourself. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #268

Ah, so it's true: The team thinks it's better than everyone else. Efilroft Sul Apr 2014 #272

When you folks get over that "hero" dream you're in, then we might be able to talk sensibly nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #274

Are you going to talk sensibly as an equal? Efilroft Sul Apr 2014 #276

What happens when the enemy of your enemy isn't much better than your enemy? cui bono Apr 2014 #346

What situation are you referring to? (Since obviously it isn't Dems vs. Repukes) nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #353

Well you're asking us to forgo our principles in order to get behind any Dem who's running. cui bono Apr 2014 #363

Your "principles" already got us 8 years of Bush, and a very right wing Supreme Court. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #364

How? n/t cui bono Apr 2014 #365

Still wondering what you meant. n/t cui bono Apr 2014 #367

I'm not fond of pretense. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #368

What does that mean? I'm asking you to explain your accusation. cui bono Apr 2014 #369

No need to pretend. I've read your comments in the past. Move along. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #370

Ah... I see. So you just throw out an accusation with nothing at all to back it up. cui bono Apr 2014 #372

one "team" is showing it's aptitude for willful ignorance right in this thread bobduca Apr 2014 #253

I'm fighting as a team for a set of policies. Auntie Bush Apr 2014 #254

Something I've noticed about some on DU jazzimov Apr 2014 #255

And vice versa. Blue_In_AK Apr 2014 #259

This is true. I think they have a "I'm SUCH a hero!!!!" mentality. They've done that before and Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #324

Psst... WillyT Apr 2014 #270

Just so they all vote for the dem, I don't care what the two groups fight about. The options are lonestarnot Apr 2014 #273

Hilarious responses from the teambots Corruption Inc Apr 2014 #278

It's wrong to see it that way. cheapdate Apr 2014 #280

Except that I had this exact discussion in a poli sci 101 course nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #283

I believe DU has moved beyond poli-sci 101 maddezmom Apr 2014 #288

There's the anti-intellectualism we need here at DU! What do poli-sci professors know anyway? bobduca Apr 2014 #306

anyone that has studied beyond poli sci 101 maddezmom Apr 2014 #308

no your claim that DU is beyond analysis by political science 101 bobduca Apr 2014 #309

I am saying maddezmom Apr 2014 #310

I find the analysis spot-on with regard to bobduca Apr 2014 #312

Looks like we agree after all maddezmom Apr 2014 #314

These categories are simple groupings of people by political tendencies. cheapdate Apr 2014 #296

Humans categorize marions ghost Apr 2014 #313

Yes. People must generalize and categorize, which is why I described it as "necessary". cheapdate Apr 2014 #326

OK so you don't like the definitions marions ghost Apr 2014 #334

There is no way to read that OP crictically cheapdate Apr 2014 #358

Consider that marions ghost Apr 2014 #360

Yes, better awareness and understanding the different ways people approach politics cheapdate Apr 2014 #362

Biologists call this *pattern recognition* nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #327

Please read my response to marions ghost. cheapdate Apr 2014 #328

As I sad, I give up nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #330

Yeah, good luck with your coalition building, cheapdate Apr 2014 #331

Well, ditto nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #333

It seems you'd rather continue to pretend as though I dispute the existence of categories cheapdate Apr 2014 #336

Since she used poli sci schematta... nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #337

Huh? And here I thought it was just another more verbose way cheapdate Apr 2014 #339

If this was presented at a convention nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #340

Really? A discussion at the water cooler. cheapdate Apr 2014 #342

Political science conventions nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #343

It's informaly referred to as "moving the goal post". cheapdate Apr 2014 #345

Since you never really wanted to discuss things nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #347

Your statement is cryptic. Care to explain? cheapdate Apr 2014 #351

Yup, amusing nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #352

Policy. Always. donheld Apr 2014 #281

"Two Different Mindsets at DU" Agree: ProSense Apr 2014 #282

Nailed it, ProSense. cheapdate Apr 2014 #332

I know there are a couple of DU globalists I don't agree with, B Calm Apr 2014 #285

What is a globalist? marions ghost Apr 2014 #291

They like free trade deals like NAFTA. . B Calm Apr 2014 #293

OK thanks marions ghost Apr 2014 #295

"Issue actives" and "party actives" as political science labels the two. morningfog Apr 2014 #297

I've rarely if ever encountered a personailty on DU cheapdate Apr 2014 #354

Yet another platform to assert Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #299

Shorter thread: "Two teams: my smart one, and your stupid one." "No, you're wrong, the two Chathamization Apr 2014 #300

It's more complex than this IMO. n/t RKP5637 Apr 2014 #305

My mindset? raven mad Apr 2014 #317

Just fight for the human, not corporate, side of life. ananda Apr 2014 #320

policies.Because once a policy, law or rule is implemented,good or bad- we may never get rid of it. Sunlei Apr 2014 #321

I'm indifferent. kentauros Apr 2014 #325

Well, then you're not invited to the meetings!! randome Apr 2014 #335

There are meetings? kentauros Apr 2014 #344

Your litmus test RandoLoodie Apr 2014 #338

I have always called this the DEMOCRATIC vs. the UNDERGROUND johnlucas Apr 2014 #341

Everyone wants a purity test WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2014 #366

I'm less kind in my appraisal. Some folks hide behind "team" because their actual positions TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #371