General Discussion

Sancho

(9,206 posts)

66. Again, you're missing the point....

Thu Apr 3, 2014, 08:38 AM

Apr 2014

it would likely be versions of state licenses, but debating the constitutionality is not a problem here. Obviously, licenses are legal in all 50 states and required for people to engage in some activities. States already have carry permits and reciprocity, so we know gun licenses are legal and have a federal impact.

The percentage would not matter. It would prevent some mass shootings, suicides, etc. We don't know the impact until we try it.

Licensing would have a measurable effect on some people with mental/emotional problems. Many of those (like the recent mass shootings) were known to be unstable - but there was no mechanism to prevent them from buying or possessing guns.

It would not catch everyone (of course).

Just like having a license whenever you drive (even if out of state), you'd have to have a current license to buy, transport, or possess a gun. Simple. Probably proof of insurance too. Criminals would find it much harder to keep guns, buy ammo, etc. but this part of the OP is about screening for mental and emotional worthiness to have a gun.

You may even have a diagnosis (like a phobia; fear of flying) and be completely fine to be licensed to possess a gun. I suggesting a simply screening and background check for obvious issues. Not a complete psychoanalysis.

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People suffering from severe depression should be banned from purchasing/carrying guns [View all] darkangel218 Apr 2014 OP

Would you agree to having your medical records released loyalsister Apr 2014 #1

+1000 a la izquierda Apr 2014 #9

People should only lug guns around in public if they establish a need Kolesar Apr 2014 #14

So the local police should have access to your medical records? hack89 Apr 2014 #24

A teenager died. Kolesar Apr 2014 #33

So cops should have unlimited discretion to restrict civil liberties? hack89 Apr 2014 #54

local police already do have 'discretion' that they abuse to bypass our 'civil liberties' Sunlei Apr 2014 #115

These threads always bring out the authoritarians hack89 Apr 2014 #116

You and your buddy have already deflected the discussion Kolesar Apr 2014 #147

I directly addressed a point that YOU brought up hack89 Apr 2014 #150

I have a mental illness passiveporcupine Apr 2014 #224

Only a judge can restrict a civil liberty hack89 Apr 2014 #225

That may be part of the problem then passiveporcupine Apr 2014 #229

Taking away civil rights should be very hard hack89 Apr 2014 #230

There are a few of them posing as Democrats here warrant46 Apr 2014 #194

Your "may issue" carry permit system exists in several states and cities. ... spin Apr 2014 #165

I am fine with that - as public safety is at stake DrDan Apr 2014 #81

The cry to "public safety" is wearing pretty thin... Hip_Flask Apr 2014 #170

as is the cry for more guns . . . everywhere . . . for everyone DrDan Apr 2014 #221

They don't need to be released to accomplish that. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #99

Who decides what is a disqualifying condition? loyalsister Apr 2014 #119

I dont have the answer to that. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #125

Get out of the middle east would be a start warrant46 Apr 2014 #196

That seems like a psychiatric matter as much or more than a legal one. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #126

NICS = National Instant CRIMINAL background Check. The ill are not DE FACTO criminals HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #121

The database can incorporate that differentiation. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #124

It COULD but it DOESN'T HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #142

Agreed. You couldn't just dump that data into it w/o significant changes. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #155

I was denied a teaching position because my 'record' included a misdiagnosis. HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #156

Actually they don't have to release all the records Marrah_G Apr 2014 #106

in some cases Doctors are required to release medical records to authorities. Sunlei Apr 2014 #113

Someone would have to agree to that KamaAina Apr 2014 #128

If a doctor writes a prescription for anti-depressants louis-t Apr 2014 #228

Agreed malaise Apr 2014 #2

Oh no, gun folks say we must wait until something criminal happens. Hoyt Apr 2014 #3

No, that would be SCOTUS pipoman Apr 2014 #60

So you agree with safeinOhio Apr 2014 #63

It has been case law for decades pipoman Apr 2014 #72

For over 200 years safeinOhio Apr 2014 #73

Wrong pipoman Apr 2014 #78

The individual right to own a firearm safeinOhio Apr 2014 #105

Wrong again, pipoman Apr 2014 #110

That might be wishful thinking for some. safeinOhio Apr 2014 #130

From cornell.law.edu safeinOhio Apr 2014 #132

Keeping in mind that the Miller decision pipoman Apr 2014 #160

I'll keep that in mind. safeinOhio Apr 2014 #162

Fantasy pipoman Apr 2014 #178

History is your friend pipoman Apr 2014 #161

1936 law on safeinOhio Apr 2014 #163

No thats not what it said. beevul Apr 2014 #167

You are a irrational as any pro-gun poster! No logic, just whining! nt Logical Apr 2014 #134

And you love your gunz, to society's detriment. Hoyt Apr 2014 #135

Post a link! And I have dozens where I tear the NRA apart. You.... Logical Apr 2014 #140

The last thing we need is another reason to stop people from seeking mental health care NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #4

I agree. This is a very bad idea. LuvNewcastle Apr 2014 #5

I Strongly agree Tribalceltic Apr 2014 #7

I am on the anti-depressant Merry go round. a la izquierda Apr 2014 #11

I'm glad you're doing much better. LuvNewcastle Apr 2014 #28

So very pipi_k Apr 2014 #107

+10000 YoungDemCA Apr 2014 #143

Exactly. HuckleB Apr 2014 #153

Also, if there's one thing we still need to learn .. ananda Apr 2014 #6

+1 n/t Alkene Apr 2014 #16

I agree with you about the US mental health system not being good davidpdx Apr 2014 #18

Just a very stupid statement. Medication works for many, probably most HERVEPA Apr 2014 #30

My child would have been dead without them. DebJ Apr 2014 #79

Mine too... pipi_k Apr 2014 #120

Ridiculous. Sorry that in your case it is not true. bettyellen Apr 2014 #109

"Off my meds" I'm an invisible homeless guy. hunter Apr 2014 #111

maybe they didn't work for you fizzgig Apr 2014 #114

Properly prescribed and managed by a competent health professional, Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #157

so very correct nt steve2470 Apr 2014 #231

I wish Dorian Gray Apr 2014 #8

Hmmm Jeneral2885 Apr 2014 #12

Just the rich? yeoman6987 Apr 2014 #57

only for those that want to own a gun - I have no problem with that DrDan Apr 2014 #82

Not really darkangel218 Apr 2014 #83

What Primary Care Provider? oldhippie Apr 2014 #92

So you think doing nothing is better than doing something? darkangel218 Apr 2014 #93

In many cases, yes ..... oldhippie Apr 2014 #103

Down below she says that limiting the voting rights of people w/depression is "good point" Heddi Apr 2014 #200

What if the doctor always says no because he really hates guns? hack89 Apr 2014 #108

How do you check Jeneral2885 Apr 2014 #10

yes how DustyJoe Apr 2014 #22

Yes documents can be falsified. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #84

What's the point of checking? Mental health status is dynamic. It changes HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #98

Ok. How do we know and second what happens when they buy a gun and are depressed later? The Straight Story Apr 2014 #13

Very true, and mostly overlooked HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #100

Gun Control and mental health (see #2) Sancho Apr 2014 #15

... pipoman Apr 2014 #20

I remember reactions like this... Sancho Apr 2014 #34

Not legal nor possible at the federal level pipoman Apr 2014 #41

Who said it has to be a federal law...tell me who has a driver's license without a vision test??? Sancho Apr 2014 #168

You do know driving isn't constitutionally protected? pipoman Apr 2014 #179

My suggestion is constitutional....you have a carry permit don't you? Sancho Apr 2014 #185

No a diagnosis does not equal due process of law... pipoman Apr 2014 #187

"Not debating the legal language." Like the 5th? Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #29

It's obvious that the legal language could be crafted if folks wanted to... Sancho Apr 2014 #31

No....I think the problem comes in here: The Straight Story Apr 2014 #37

I used to live in Alaska, and in past years I was a mental health professional. Sancho Apr 2014 #61

Ok, give me some examples of questions you would ask in screening someone (nt) The Straight Story Apr 2014 #64

That's simple, but I'm not going to pretend to be a current expert. Sancho Apr 2014 #70

Would that license also permit public carry? N/T beevul Apr 2014 #169

A public carry permit is really a license... Sancho Apr 2014 #171

You're missing the point. beevul Apr 2014 #173

lol pipoman Apr 2014 #43

no..it's a problem already solved.... Sancho Apr 2014 #55

What percentage of people with TB pipoman Apr 2014 #58

Again, you're missing the point.... Sancho Apr 2014 #66

States can, feds can't.. pipoman Apr 2014 #69

Case law on licensing? Is your driver's license ok in more than one state? Sancho Apr 2014 #88

The 5th underwrites All laws affecting ones rights. Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #44

A license is a reasonable way to protect the public... Sancho Apr 2014 #91

How about a license for voting? NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #188

We have that now�it's called voter registration�. Sancho Apr 2014 #192

Fail - voter registration is not a license. Try again. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #195

I'm not going to reply to most of these points tolkien90 Apr 2014 #159

Insurance for gun ownership has been completely discredited. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #189

Short sightedness pipoman Apr 2014 #17

The problem would be privacy laws davidpdx Apr 2014 #19

cue gun humpers attacking your op in 5,4,3,2,1 Nanjing to Seoul Apr 2014 #21

Castle Bansalot is the dissent free zone hack89 Apr 2014 #26

I think they just pintobean Apr 2014 #47

Que the shortsighted and legally challenged idealists... pipoman Apr 2014 #45

This OP still supports the 2nd Amendment YoungDemCA Apr 2014 #144

This would have been really witty... egduj Apr 2014 #152

living 8000 miles away and 15 time zones makes punctual responses a bit hard Nanjing to Seoul Apr 2014 #215

Ah, so people supporting the 4th Amendment and Medical privacy are gun humpers? NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #191

We have the 5th Anendment which guarantees due process... Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #23

Hey...you are breaking the rules of outrage...no legal facts allowed here... pipoman Apr 2014 #59

Don't forget the 14th HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #67

Yep. W/out 14A the Civil Rights Movement would have been handicapped. Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #131

Thought police. Android3.14 Apr 2014 #25

Illinois had a firearms owner I.D. (FOID) for yrs... Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #36

Jim crow burden? Android3.14 Apr 2014 #117

Are those taxes (and postal rates) higher than for other Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #129

So you support a national data base of mental health patients? Nt hack89 Apr 2014 #27

It's tricky, so there should be a bias against gun-lugging in any "permit application" Kolesar Apr 2014 #35

Of course the only people who need self defense are those who pipoman Apr 2014 #48

The beauty of civil rights is that you never have to justify exercising them to the government. hack89 Apr 2014 #56

Not sure this would work anyway as there are many people suffering from depression maddezmom Apr 2014 #32

People aren't born with depression...it is a condition that can begin at any time and it goes away HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #38

Thank you for this post maddezmom Apr 2014 #40

How about we make mental health available to anyone anytime? geckosfeet Apr 2014 #39

Sounds good, but most people with resources don't seek clinical help for mental illness HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #50

Yes - the stigma must be removed. This is especially prevalent in the military. geckosfeet Apr 2014 #51

People suffering from severe depression should be banned from purchasing/carrying guns... sweetapogee Apr 2014 #42

Was "marijuana" dropped as a disqualifier from 4473 Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #49

google the form, sweetapogee Apr 2014 #52

.. pipoman Apr 2014 #53

maybe sweetapogee Apr 2014 #65

I have advocated investigation of NICS denials for years pipoman Apr 2014 #75

That would mean that the 90% of gun-hugers who are depressed because Obama is President kelliekat44 Apr 2014 #46

There does need to be a better mechanism for separating guns from people who are a danger... aikoaiko Apr 2014 #62

I agree. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #86

But, that's a pipedream. The American Psychological Association says there isn't a way to do it. HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #101

Came across this a bit ago here on the local news: The Straight Story Apr 2014 #68

Nonsense pipoman Apr 2014 #71

this post sweetapogee Apr 2014 #74

It is related in that The Straight Story Apr 2014 #76

except... sweetapogee Apr 2014 #85

Hey, Gun Enthusiasts! Never mind all this! Paladin Apr 2014 #77

Why? Nt hack89 Apr 2014 #226

well, this has brought out the usual suspects. But don't ask them what we can do about CTyankee Apr 2014 #80

Typically in a military situation if the Command knows giftedgirl77 Apr 2014 #87

There's a valid issue here- mental health and guns can lead to tragedy. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #89

2 things HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #104

i think "Violence Culture" is the main problem. Canadians have a lot of guns, probably not as many dionysus Apr 2014 #133

It's much easier for the mainstream to blame certain individuals or groups YoungDemCA Apr 2014 #146

I move to go further than this. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #90

Or vote, they make the wrong choice. Or have 4A rights, they may be hiding something dangerous. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #158

So you believe that people who are mentally disturbed should own guns! Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #166

You said you want them permanently disqualified. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #182

Absolutely. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #184

Then we should also permanently do away with their 4A rights. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #201

I don't know how you arrived to that conclusion. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #217

I see your point, but... pipi_k Apr 2014 #94

Yep...not surprising... Sancho Apr 2014 #95

If you are hospitalized for certain mental disorders in California. . . BigDemVoter Apr 2014 #96

I think people with testesterone should be banned from purchasing guns. NCTraveler Apr 2014 #97

So everyone, then? n/t hughee99 Apr 2014 #123

everyone should be banned from purchasing/carrying guns bowens43 Apr 2014 #102

Doctors will tell depressed people not to have guns around, of course any background requirement Sunlei Apr 2014 #112

probably should ban them from flying planes too. To many side effects from the medications. Sunlei Apr 2014 #118

Never forget just wanting a firearm is the first sign ileus Apr 2014 #122

It is definitely a sign of anti-social behavior. When one covets multiple weapons, and Hoyt Apr 2014 #137

Thanks...I knew you'd have my back. ileus Apr 2014 #138

A government database of medical records, what could go wrong with that? tammywammy Apr 2014 #127

Let's say it like it is...a government CRIMINAL database that adds people due to illness. HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #136

Yep. tammywammy Apr 2014 #139

Especially considering how pervasive mental illness is in our society YoungDemCA Apr 2014 #145

Glad to see you still said "I support the Second Amendment"... YoungDemCA Apr 2014 #141

You are wrong to think my intention was to stigmatize anyone. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #164

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #186

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #148

Hey library girl! hrmjustin Apr 2014 #149

How about people who have been observed acting erratically under the influence of alcohol? Heidi Apr 2014 #151

No chance- older vets with dementia LynnTTT Apr 2014 #154

I have not read this entire thread but.................... steve2470 Apr 2014 #172

Are you sure about that? darkangel218 Apr 2014 #175

two different animals steve2470 Apr 2014 #176

Oh, really? How about producing federal surveillance numbers to back that up HereSince1628 Apr 2014 #177

i think YOU need to read more about it, frankly. dionysus Apr 2014 #199

There is substantial evidence BainsBane Apr 2014 #232

Except in the for-profit war machine wherein it's a prerequisite Corruption Inc Apr 2014 #174

Should people suffering from severe depression be allowed to vote? ( n/t ) Make7 Apr 2014 #180

Good point. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #183

The answer is that public safety is not threatened immediately by the vote... CTyankee Apr 2014 #193

You don't know if people who are depressed should be allowed to vote? Heddi Apr 2014 #198

First 0-7 Leave I've been on. Sissyk Apr 2014 #210

Go after the ammo. deathrind Apr 2014 #181

Medical confidentiality laws make that problematic. Kaleva Apr 2014 #190

One would think that all your Nursing School training would educated you on mental illness Heddi Apr 2014 #197

Are you ever going to stop your personal attacks and have an honest conversation? darkangel218 Apr 2014 #202

Are you ever going to address the points I bring up when i counter your nonsense? Heddi Apr 2014 #205

You just fuking called me a bigot a sentence down. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #208

I said your views towards the mentally ill were bigoted and ill-informed Heddi Apr 2014 #212

Your continual personal attacks against me are disgusting. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #206

Post the stats if you're so sure of them. I am in healthcare and I am much more aware of the reality Heddi Apr 2014 #218

Low information types should be banned from posting nonsense. idendoit Apr 2014 #203

Tell that to the famillies of those who lkst their life. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #204

Tell that to all the non violent people with a mental illness diagnosis. idendoit Apr 2014 #211

Its not a basic right anymore to someone who cant discern the right from wrong. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #214

What qualifies you to say a person with mental illness can't discern right from wrong? idendoit Apr 2014 #216

She also isn't sure if people with depression should be allowed to vote Heddi Apr 2014 #219

Thank you. idendoit Apr 2014 #220

People who support the second amendment should be put on severe medication until the condition XRubicon Apr 2014 #207

Haha! funny darkangel218 Apr 2014 #209

Fuck yeah! Make a mood ring the trigger lock! That'll work! TransitJohn Apr 2014 #213

I read your OP last night right after you posted it. pacalo Apr 2014 #222

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #223

Again with the unsubstantiated stigma-inducing idea phil89 Apr 2014 #227