General Discussion

Solly Mack

(96,954 posts)

25. When the claim is made that the "CIA misled" the govt. & public about torture

Fri Apr 4, 2014, 11:56 AM

Apr 2014

Are they saying had the CIA not misled them there would never have been any torture?

Are they saying they didn't think waterboarding was torture because the CIA told them it wasn't?

Are they saying since the "CIA misled" them - as Congress - they would have done something about it had they only known?

Are they saying they - Congress - believed the lies that torture works because the CIA told them so?

Much as I didn't buy the bullshit "Bush fooled me" line, I don't buy that the CIA fooled anyone either.

Sure, I can believe the CIA lied. They lied each and every time they couched torture in mitigating language. So did every single person who ever referred to torture as "enhanced interrogation techniques". And I'm sure they lied about what kinds of information they were getting. ( But how many experts do you need telling you that torture doesn't work to know anyone saying it does is a liar?) So someone telling me that got intelligence from torture isn't someone I'm going to believe. Someone I would be a fool (or a liar) to believe.

Every single person that claimed "We don't torture" lied.

Every single person who dared claim that it was only a matter of opinion about whether or not waterboarding is torture lied.

And if torture is wrong (and it is) and illegal (and it is and was), then whether it works or not doesn't matter. So, only someone who didn't give a damn about torture (or its victims) would take its merits into consideration against the illegality of torture.

Am I to believe that Bush and Cheney would never have tortured if the CIA hadn't "misled" them?

That, somehow, the torture memo writing DOJ and the constantly enabling Bush Congress were duped by the CIA about torture? Seriously? Seriously?

U.S. officials said the committee refrained from assigning motives to CIA officials whose actions or statements were scrutinized. The report also does not recommend new administrative punishment or further criminal inquiry into a program that the Justice Department has investigated repeatedly.

Snort.

Release the report. But don't ever expect me to excuse the actions of the guilty or the complicit.

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Highlight:

Mother Of God... No Wonder The CIA Doesn't Want The Report To Come Out... [View all] WillyT Apr 2014 OP

What kind of doctor could stand by and watch torture? LiberalEsto Apr 2014 #1

A very good point. Sounds like a clear violation. riqster Apr 2014 #2

Cheney's men Rosa Luxemburg Apr 2014 #70

Just tossing out this thought. enlightenment Apr 2014 #4

I'd have to put these complicit doctors marions ghost Apr 2014 #10

Could be. enlightenment Apr 2014 #15

Unless I hear personal testimony marions ghost Apr 2014 #20

Okay. enlightenment Apr 2014 #21

I get that marions ghost Apr 2014 #55

Exactly. Raksha Apr 2014 #75

Thx marions ghost Apr 2014 #77

Agreed. I think that you would find a CIA doctor in a group of college campus conservatives but DhhD Apr 2014 #96

They would marions ghost Apr 2014 #103

Bet they were paid a pretty penny too. ReRe Apr 2014 #86

You can't torture a dead person. They are kept alive so they can be tortured. alfredo Apr 2014 #97

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #12

You're entitled to your opinion. enlightenment Apr 2014 #13

You're not outraged enuff ! stonecutter357 Apr 2014 #35

The term "whistle-blower" comes to mind, not to mention "ethics," "morality," "war crimes," etc. WinkyDink Apr 2014 #18

surely you have heard of war crimes? the Nuremberg trials? No? Demeter Apr 2014 #32

Pretty strong response. enlightenment Apr 2014 #45

I remember reading something about psychopaths arikara Apr 2014 #37

It is entirely possible enlightenment Apr 2014 #47

Guantanamo docs were as compassionate as Josef Mengeles & the Nazi death camp doctors. Divernan Apr 2014 #39

Okay. nt enlightenment Apr 2014 #48

Not just to be argumentative, but there are other ways to view these doctors erronis Apr 2014 #71

Interesting angle... awoke_in_2003 Apr 2014 #72

I would say that delrem Apr 2014 #85

I remember back during the Bush years this issue was raised. Doctors 'monitoring torture'. NO doctor sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #9

There will be no looking forward JEB Apr 2014 #33

They should not only lose their license but they should be in jail. Auntie Bush Apr 2014 #26

"These doctors should lose their medical licenses." Enthusiast Apr 2014 #40

The AMA code of ethics prohibits doctors' invlvement in torture LiberalEsto Apr 2014 #63

That is pretty clear. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #92

The Nazis had doctors, too. thecrow Apr 2014 #60

I wouldn't be surprised nt LiberalEsto Apr 2014 #64

A sadistic doctor? Helen Borg Apr 2014 #68

Probably a dentist. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #69

Haha!! Maynar Apr 2014 #84

Isn't there something about BlueMTexpat Apr 2014 #90

The people who authorized this are well known even though one was fond of bunkers. gordianot Apr 2014 #3

I wish there really was a heaven and hell Z_California Apr 2014 #5

President Obama may decide to pardon the top level war criminals for political reasons or whatever, rhett o rick Apr 2014 #6

Can you name the pardon he's issued? nt msanthrope Apr 2014 #16

Ralph. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #28

I haven't seen any pardons issued. BlueMTexpat Apr 2014 #91

I guess I missed your point. I clearly said that Pres Obama may pardon the War Criminals rhett o rick Apr 2014 #101

We can take comfort in the fact that Putin is more recent Fumesucker Apr 2014 #7

Do you have any news reports on Putin torturing prisoners? JDPriestly Apr 2014 #11

Boy, you can't engage in a little random hyperbole here without someone getting snippy Fumesucker Apr 2014 #17

He didn't even look under his desk! WinkyDink Apr 2014 #19

lol! DocMac Apr 2014 #24

Shock 'n awe is essential in a proper invasion. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #41

Pussy Riot. nt Mnemosyne Apr 2014 #22

Kick! Heidi Apr 2014 #8

The US justice system is sooooo last century anyway. L0oniX Apr 2014 #14

"says it used the technique on only three prisoners" progressoid Apr 2014 #23

When the claim is made that the "CIA misled" the govt. & public about torture Solly Mack Apr 2014 #25

Excellent questions marions ghost Apr 2014 #102

I said while Bush was still in office that an effort would be made to rush Solly Mack Apr 2014 #105

There is a lot of studies on who tortures and why Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #27

I think the CIA has probably octoberlib Apr 2014 #29

The CIA has also been helping other nations do it Scootaloo Apr 2014 #51

they even ordered Americans killed MisterP Apr 2014 #57

indeed justabob Apr 2014 #62

, blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #30

"We need to look forward..." The audacity of covering up crimes. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #31

"Detainees� credentials also were exaggerated, officials said" catchnrelease Apr 2014 #34

doesn't anyone think it suspicious that the interrogator died... grasswire Apr 2014 #36

I thought the very same. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #42

Seems like a dangerous business to be in, even more so if you try and leave. nt. Rex Apr 2014 #58

Kinda like the process of being "jumped out" if someone wants to leave a gang. nt tblue37 Apr 2014 #87

Exactly like that! Rex Apr 2014 #98

They raped a little boy in front of his father to get him to talk.... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2014 #38

They claim they did this for our country. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #44

"Fightin' for White Supremacy" is more like it.... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2014 #53

Oh, I agree completely. The freedom talk is complete nonsense. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #54

As is often the case, Bruce Cockburn lyrics are apt: Maedhros Apr 2014 #67

Thank you, Maedhros. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #93

There is no defense and such a breach goes so far beyond the pale that I don't know if TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #46

how is it that we allow these people the comforts of our society? grasswire Apr 2014 #50

I don't know and I don't like what it implies about the collective "us" to allow it. TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #56

Thank you! Very well said, and I agree with all of it. Raksha Apr 2014 #78

I suspect that anyone who pushes too hard to bring the most powerful tblue37 Apr 2014 #88

No wonder there were so many 2nd and 3rds and top officials of Al-quaeda. nt kelliekat44 Apr 2014 #43

My it sure is odd how former CIA workers end up dead from natural causes. Rex Apr 2014 #49

"He died of a heart attack shortly after retiring from the CIA..." warrprayer Apr 2014 #52

Senator Wyden says we'll be "profoundly disturbed" by this report. neverforget Apr 2014 #59

No, I doubt they will "get" anyone. nt tblue37 Apr 2014 #89

Thanks for posting, WillyT BelgianMadCow Apr 2014 #61

You Are Quite Welcome !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #65

k&r Soylent Brice Apr 2014 #66

What better illustration could there be Bonobo Apr 2014 #73

Speaking Of Which... Did You See This: WillyT Apr 2014 #74

Holy fuck...and here is something to add to that from my POV. Bonobo Apr 2014 #76

Absolutely, they know it too but the politics are too messy so they are inclined to just double down TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #99

Also marions ghost Apr 2014 #104

If this is "government" or an acceptable policy for it's toolbox then trust should be low. TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #106

I think that's what we're fighting about marions ghost Apr 2014 #107

Atonement would be great but they need to stop patting themselves on the back for being "pragmatic" TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #108

True marions ghost Apr 2014 #109

Professional sadists, allowed to run amok for at least 5 or 6 years. TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #79

Have you ever read The Torture Doctors, Willy? Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #80

Printing It Now... Thank You !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #81

You're welcome. Scott Horton is an excellent source, he does not write as often lately for Harpers, Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #82

Well that sort of kicks the legs out from under the JoeyT Apr 2014 #83

private contractors of Titan and Casi sdougreid Apr 2014 #94

"he died of a heart attack shortly after retiring from the CIA." HMMMMM secondwind Apr 2014 #95

Sounds to me like he was Spooked to death. drokhole Apr 2014 #100