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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 12:04 PM Apr 2014

The USSC does not say that "money is speech" [View all]

The courts also do not say "corporations are people."

And debunking things courts do not say is like creationists debunking the statement, "your grandfather was a monkey."


Since these issues are complex it would be better to seek to understand them so as to better contend against, and potentially reverse, the malign effect of some recent court decisions.

DU is, in fact, a corporation. And your donations to DU are, in fact, protected political expression.

So it should be stipulated that people can join together to avail themselves of the same benefits and protections that business enjoys in collective action... there is no good reason why Dow Chemicals can incorporate and the Sierra Club cannot.

And it should be stipulated that funding speech and distributing speech are intimately connected to speech.

There are things one can do with money that are part of their speech rights. Not the money itself, the use of money. (Is protection of your right to put something in the collection plate every Sunday a statement that "money is religion"? No. But money can be part of the free exercise of religion. The question is when and how.)

It would make no sense to say that Michael Moore is free to make Fahrenheit 911, but that he cannot sell it to Sony Pictures Home Entertainment to make and sell DVDs of it.

And it would make no sense to say that Congress can outlaw sales of that DVD by Sony Pictures Home Entertainment because Sony didn't author the film, and has no 1st Amendment rights, being a corporation.


And as to corporations being people... thankfully Mitt Romney is not a federal judge. Nobody has found, legally, that a corporation is a person. Corporations are held to have the legal status of persons for certain purposes. If they were not they could not enter into a contract. They could not sue or be sued.

And as with DU, Sony DVD and the Sierra club, a corporation formed to disseminate speech does have some speech rights.

The questions are about the dimension and character of those rights, not whether they exist.


How can or cannot these rights that everyone knows exist be limited?

And the same goes for money. Of course some uses of money enjoy 1st Amendment protection. The questions are the dimension and character of that protection.

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Well, ProSense Apr 2014 #1
Dumb slander from Prosense: "spin in an attempt to defend both decisions" cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #3
Now, you're proving that you don't know the definition of "slander." n/t ProSense Apr 2014 #4
Ummm. while I might be inclined to agree with your STRICTLY Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #36
While your reply would be apropos in a courtroom, we aren't in one cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #40
It was Roberts who fast tracked Citizens United and it was likley the most egregious case imo, of Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #2
I believe the conservatives are motivated by partisan hackery cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #5
Clearly, and he knew who would side with him. We need to push it back. Senator Sanders: Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #7
The Supremes sort of did say corporations are people, in the sense that The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #6
Well said. Yes, ProSense Apr 2014 #10
If only natural persons had constitutional protections, all sorts of horrible things could happen. Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #11
In the case of a hypothetical PP raid The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #25
Do you see another way to keep money out of the political arena? cheyanne Apr 2014 #12
The 1976 Court did Metatron Apr 2014 #8
Money IS speech. Sorry folks. Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #9
That doesn't ProSense Apr 2014 #13
Would you be OK with banning corporations from publishing books that criticized election candidates Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #14
Again ProSense Apr 2014 #15
Well, would you? (nt) Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #16
Ask me if I would ban "handmade signs." ProSense Apr 2014 #17
So where do you draw the line? Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #19
Well, ProSense Apr 2014 #20
I understand that these are difficult questions to answer for those who want to limit free speech. Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #23
Well, ProSense Apr 2014 #27
You will find that arguing with a nihilist approach to argument is fruitless cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #18
Did you look up the meaning of "slander"? n/t ProSense Apr 2014 #21
Yes. cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #26
"It said that slander is whatever Prosense says it is, at any given point in time." ProSense Apr 2014 #28
How is your name-calling somehow "fruitful"? BumRushDaShow Apr 2014 #22
In this context it is hardly name-calling. cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #24
Sorry but your argument for making ad-hominems is weak BumRushDaShow Apr 2014 #29
Have a nice day. cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #32
"In the context of any online argument, Prosense is a nihilist." ProSense Apr 2014 #30
There SHOULD be no context SunsetDreams Apr 2014 #31
Then alert on it. cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #33
No I think my point was made SunsetDreams Apr 2014 #34
I think your assessment of Pro is spot on. Laelth Apr 2014 #38
Well, ProSense Apr 2014 #39
Fair enough. Laelth Apr 2014 #41
No, ProSense Apr 2014 #42
I will let you have the last word on this. Laelth Apr 2014 #43
"Now, please, buzz off." ProSense Apr 2014 #44
Don't give them any ideas. eom Frustratedlady Apr 2014 #35
What is critical is that they did not say "Money is NOT speech and has no 1st amendment protection". stevenleser Apr 2014 #37
"It is vital to regulate....to prevent my speech...from being drowned out." BumRushDaShow Apr 2014 #45
Elections should be publicly financed, candidatees should have to campaign within tblue37 Apr 2014 #46
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