Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
42. Outside the grand jury, where the evidence will
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 01:11 PM
Mar 2012

be ambiguous enough to permit an indictment depending on the jury, Zimmerman can't claim he was retreating unless he testifies.

So he won't claim he was retreating if I am correct about the fact that he won't testify.

Why do I say the evidence was ambiguous enough? Because Trayvon was legally within the housing development, because there were lots of witnesses, because of the lack of forensic evidence, because Trayvon was clearly headed toward the house where he was staying, because Zimmerman's call to 911 describes Trayvon as running toward that very house.

And Zimmerman can't afford to testify. Remember the OJ case? He did not testify either.

The jury simply analyzed the evidence, and decided that there was not enough evidence to convict. That could happen here, but as with OJ, that kind of resolution to the case will not rehabilitate Zimmerman's reputation.

And, if Zimmerman is a gun-happy guy with an uncontrolled temper, he will, like OJ, get into trouble again. Zimmerman will not be able to live his life in peace, sheltered from scrutiny, not unless he testifies and proves that he really was acting in self-defense.

I think that is going to be hard to do -- prove that he really was acting in self-defense.

What happened was really quite commonplace. A mature man and a 17-year-old boy who could be taken for a man are walking down a street alone. But this time, something unusual happened. The mature man started to follow the boy, and the boy ran (from Zimmerman's phone call).

At this point, we do not really know what happened. Zimmerman is reported to have claimed that Trayvon turned and attacked him. Why would Trayvon do that? Let's say that Zimmerman testifies to that effect. Then the question will be, why would Trayvon turn and attack? Did Trayvon feel threatened? If so, why? Was it something Zimmerman did or said? Was Zimmerman following Trayvon in a way that frightened Trayvon? This is the crucial moment. Zimmerman will hem and haw, and if he doesn't and tells a story exonerating himself, not even he will believe it. Because at that crucial moment, something happened between Zimmerman and Trayvon that Zimmerman may not even be willing to remember, much less testify about.

Remember, if Zimmerman testifies, he faces cross-examination.

One thing that makes it unlikely that Trayvon turned and fought is the fact that Zimmerman was Hispanic/white and Trayvon was a young, African-American. Trayvon was old enough to know that the benefit of the doubt would not be his birthright if he turned and picked a fight. The story attributed to Zimmerman does not makes sense.

But more important, we see in this example why this stand your ground law cannot work in a case in which two individuals are both where they are supposed to be, but one mistakenly thinks the other is dangerous. Any mother knows how hard it is to decide which kid started the fight once both kids are in the midst of it. And each kid will say the other started. It's the job of the jury to try to make sense of that kind of chaos in murder cases, not the one who happens to make it out alive.

What would have happened if both Zimmerman and Trayvon had been legally in the housing development, Zimmerman had been unarmed and had followed Trayvon. What if under these facts, Trayvon had been the one with the gun and Trayvon had shot Zimmerman. Do you realize that Trayvon, under this crazy law, would not have stood trial? The law would have given the benefit of the doubt to Trayvon. With this law, the one with the gun pretty much always survives, while the unarmed, under-aged kid . . ., or imagine a mom with a stroller or an elderly man out for an evening stroll . . . . .



Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

K & R AzDar Mar 2012 #1
DU Rec GopperStopper2680 Mar 2012 #2
You're welcome :) n/t Tx4obama Mar 2012 #10
K&R Blue_Roses Mar 2012 #3
Zimmerman probably won't take the stand. JDPriestly Mar 2012 #4
He will CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #21
He got out of the car and confronted Martin. That gave Martin the right to kill Zimmerman saras Mar 2012 #38
Yes, you are correct. tabatha Mar 2012 #39
Outside the grand jury, where the evidence will JDPriestly Mar 2012 #42
How is Martin allegedly beating xxqqqzme Mar 2012 #59
Good question, but that seems to be Zimmerman's claim. JDPriestly Mar 2012 #84
Valid points CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #77
except for a couple of points magical thyme Mar 2012 #79
It seems as though Trayvon decided to cut through someone's backyard riderinthestorm Mar 2012 #86
then we have 2 people who were not where they were supposed to be magical thyme Mar 2012 #91
I'm not sure how it works in criminal law as to burden shifting. JDPriestly Mar 2012 #88
I do not know. CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #89
It's not clear that Zimmerman will ever be charged with anything. That's the purpose of all this. yardwork Mar 2012 #29
Would be interesting to see Zimmerman's record and a hair folicle test Thinkingabout Mar 2012 #5
I'm watching Chris Matthews and he is interviewing a "friend" of Zimmerman Chemisse Mar 2012 #6
I think the friend lost a lot of people when he made the ridiculous comment about PA Democrat Mar 2012 #23
Joe Oliver, former CNN anchor? csziggy Mar 2012 #24
I was SHOCKED that Matthews let the "goon is endearment" statement go K Gardner Mar 2012 #36
Why does this remind me of Terri Schiavo? nineteen50 Mar 2012 #7
Thank for the post, Tx Cali_Democrat Mar 2012 #8
We all need a little break from time to time :) Tx4obama Mar 2012 #11
ALEC and NRA "Self-Defense Law" Iliyah Mar 2012 #9
Empty marijuana baggie? mzmolly Mar 2012 #12
I can LOL snooper2 Mar 2012 #34
I don't recall mzmolly Mar 2012 #71
"unlaced pot" LOL, you must have been smoking the rag weed snooper2 Mar 2012 #80
I had access to a variety, actually. mzmolly Mar 2012 #82
I can speak to the empty baggie and how the cops knew it was MJ at school.... riderinthestorm Mar 2012 #87
Eh. More speculation. mzmolly Mar 2012 #92
Guess what? The propaganda's working RufusTFirefly Mar 2012 #13
It not only the outrage at the justice system But lunasun Mar 2012 #74
There was also a claim that Trayvon had been suspended for assaulting a school bus driver. Ken Burch Mar 2012 #14
the lawyer for the woman who killed my daughter barbtries Mar 2012 #15
Heartbreaking!!! DianaForRussFeingold Mar 2012 #16
thank you. barbtries Mar 2012 #65
I am so sorry for your loss. That is terrible. yardwork Mar 2012 #31
thank you. barbtries Mar 2012 #64
I agree with you. yardwork Mar 2012 #72
I am so sorry etherealtruth Mar 2012 #60
thank you. barbtries Mar 2012 #62
K & R ellisonz Mar 2012 #17
When the truth comes out about what happened, the Sanford Police are going . . . Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #18
great point RitchieRich Mar 2012 #49
I think this will backfire. DLevine Mar 2012 #19
Everyone should watch this video to see how the Sanford PD is using local media... Cooley Hurd Mar 2012 #20
it's like Roger Waters' evil half twin got a job KurtNYC Mar 2012 #26
shameful... Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #33
She is a reporter. She has a right to protect her source. JDPriestly Mar 2012 #43
That is a good point. A reporter does have the right to protect truedelphi Mar 2012 #57
It has nothing to do with her source. It has everything to do with her willingness to slant... Cooley Hurd Mar 2012 #73
Once again, it shows just how incredibly despicable the right wing has become. spicegal Mar 2012 #22
This is a goodindication of how far the right will go to achieve their ends CanonRay Mar 2012 #25
Just as hideous are CNN, AP, Reuters and every other MSM propaganda firm just1voice Mar 2012 #27
Isn't it against the law to disclose information about a minor? auburngrad82 Mar 2012 #28
Depends on Florida law. JDPriestly Mar 2012 #44
Thank you for this OP. The least we can do is keep pushing for the truth. K&R yardwork Mar 2012 #30
Defame and distract. It's what they do. GoCubsGo Mar 2012 #32
huh? meforprez Mar 2012 #56
I take you slept throught the past few weeks? GoCubsGo Mar 2012 #66
Furthermore... GoCubsGo Mar 2012 #67
I hear you. the Masters of Spin, propped up by the truedelphi Mar 2012 #58
The only 'revelation' of any interest is the witness that claims AtheistCrusader Mar 2012 #35
It was bound to happen. wildeyed Mar 2012 #37
We've had enough trolls now that I can nail down a pretty distinct pattern Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #40
This needs a thread of it's own. nt Hatchling Mar 2012 #41
So basically, you define trolling as "wanting us to make arrests based on actual evidence"? metalbot Mar 2012 #46
yes, but Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #48
when you beg for a confrontation, then claim self-defense noiretextatique Mar 2012 #51
This is a media trial CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #78
wrong on many counts got root Mar 2012 #85
"why do they keep showing pictures of him when he was 9 years old?" noiretextatique Mar 2012 #52
No shit. We need a bingo card. Starry Messenger Mar 2012 #55
Nothing like a race muder to bring the racists out of the woodwork. morningfog Mar 2012 #69
You forgot one: 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #70
+1 obamanut2012 Mar 2012 #81
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Mar 2012 #45
K&R sonias Mar 2012 #47
K&R myrna minx Mar 2012 #50
This simply makes us all even angrier, and say louder "no justice, no peace". robinlynne Mar 2012 #53
Also, here's a link to a DIFFERENT list regarding 'the case' Tx4obama Mar 2012 #54
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Mar 2012 #61
here in Boston Leaflets are being Passed out at a Train Station fascisthunter Mar 2012 #63
Are they allowed to release info about a juvenile? McCamy Taylor Mar 2012 #68
Did they also leak the irrelevant information rocktivity Mar 2012 #75
MALKIN runs twitchy??? I did NOT know that. alp227 Mar 2012 #76
RW LIES, HIDING THE SAD FACT OF MURDER drynberg Mar 2012 #83
A classic smear campaign. Somehow puts me in mind of the Gaza flotilla raid. redgreenandblue Mar 2012 #90
Kick Better Believe It Mar 2012 #93
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»What Everyone Needs To Kn...»Reply #42