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Gravitycollapse

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31. Let me put it this way. The undocumented immigrants are basically here to stay...

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 01:31 AM

Apr 2014

Sure, the size of the undocumented immigrant population fluctuates with the demands of the economy. But the body of persons isn't going to up and disappear if we somehow could totally remove them from the workforce. They would thus represent a massive number of unemployable individuals stuck in limbo. Which is, beyond being unethical, a really bad idea economically and criminally.

If we were to give them a path to citizenship, they would legally and ethically be no different from every other American. Then we could no longer target them as "stealing" our jobs because they'll be their jobs too.

Now, legal immigration is a little different as they aren't already here in the first place. But I happen to believe, and I realize not everyone will agree, that they deserve the jobs just as much as anyone else.

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The number of (nearly all professional) jobs given to immigrants via H1b visas in 2012 was 821,000 [View all] Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 OP

H1B is corporate welfare JazzFanInTX Apr 2014 #1

Yup. I first found out about H1b visas when I lived in Boca Raton and found out by accident Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #4

Re: Yup. I first found out about H1b visas when I lived in Boca Raton and found out by accident JazzFanInTX Apr 2014 #7

While we are missing jobs here, 0 H1b visas should be issued nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #9

I see where you're coming from, but disagree. JazzFanInTX Apr 2014 #24

I'm sorry I didn't understand. Paraphrase? nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #26

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #85

I think most liberals see through the phony shortages. nt Live and Learn Apr 2014 #30

As a former employer trying to use the H-1b visa program daybranch Apr 2014 #45

Thank you for explaining that. I agree that the corporations are the ones abusing this Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #89

Well said. pa28 Apr 2014 #46

True!-nt Anansi1171 Apr 2014 #65

Not really. It's an argument of RICH vs. POOR. The ones applying for EXPENSIVE H1b visas are rich Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #73

You replied to the wrong post maybe? pa28 Apr 2014 #75

+1!!! snot Apr 2014 #62

Very well explained. An alternate economy not free to all. n/t freshwest Apr 2014 #66

Agree. But I find it vexing that if you extend that concern to blue collar professions, it's racism. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #2

That's largely because much of the sentiment against it is a mix of nationalism and racism. Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #3

800,000 H1B's are not a drop in the bucket of technology and engineering jobs lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #12

First off, they're called undocumented immigrants. Secondly, they're here to stay... Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #35

Illegal immigrants are the elephant in the room. Lasher Apr 2014 #101

Funny, innit? shanemcg Apr 2014 #68

This affects everyone in the industry. Being able to hire people pnwmom Apr 2014 #13

When I hear foaming at the mouth diatribes about the TN, E3 or L2 visa I will believe that. Sen. Walter Sobchak Apr 2014 #39

Who here is foaming at the mouth? n/t pnwmom Apr 2014 #43

Or for that matter the H-2A Recursion Apr 2014 #110

I don't know what the appropriate number is, but I think you are right about the underlying issue. Hoyt Apr 2014 #47

We have many in here throwing around right-wing nativist talking points... Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #49

I'm a bit shocked by some of the comments. Hoyt Apr 2014 #51

Could you change your avatar, please? brentspeak Apr 2014 #84

Woody wouldn't be posting bigoted crud against immigrants. Hoyt Apr 2014 #87

What "bigoted crud" against immigrants? brentspeak Apr 2014 #88

There's nothing "bigoted" about objecting to corporate bullshit. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #121

No, Woody would call out the obvious bigotry against immigrants . Hoyt Apr 2014 #123

If you want to think that, hunky-dory. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #126

821,000 did not come in one year. You don't even understand how it works. Hoyt Apr 2014 #127

Let us know when you actually locate anyone here brentspeak Apr 2014 #83

once again, the popinjay speaks about which he knows nothing... dionysus Apr 2014 #129

And if you extend it to crop pickers, right wingers will be frothing at the mouth, angry that Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #6

As blue collar pay goes up, they'd be surprised at how industrious their fellow citizens are. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #16

+1 nt Live and Learn Apr 2014 #33

Yeah, that's true. Yo_Mama Apr 2014 #74

821K jobs out of 143 million is about 1/2 of 1% of the total employed. A drop in the bucket. Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #5

I'm looking through your posts and a profile of your ideology is coming through loud and clear. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #8

Cool. Do you have a response for the fact that 821K jobs is half a percent of the employed? Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #10

Actually, I have a really good idea of what you're doing on DU nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #11

a lot of us do Skittles Apr 2014 #18

He's one of the ones from the dark side, huh? lol There are a few others nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #20

You Should See ProgressiveJarhead Apr 2014 #40

You're kidding me. That place is infested with right wingnuts too? nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #54

my guess Skittles Apr 2014 #50

I think you're right. Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #53

The pertinent statistic is what fraction it is of COMPARABLE jobs, pnwmom Apr 2014 #17

H1B visas are not just for high tech jobs. It is for jobs which require a BS or higher. Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #29

No, it is much more specialized than that. It requires a minimum of a BS pnwmom Apr 2014 #34

I have a response Samantha Apr 2014 #28

AND those being hired from overseas should be paid the same wages the jobs are worth here. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #59

It is not such a small percentage of those who want to be employed in technology. JDPriestly Apr 2014 #52

And what % is it of the UNEMPLOYED? And are those jobs advertised here first? And are these sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #55

I can't imagine that either sabrina shanemcg Apr 2014 #100

And what percent is it of professional jobs? starroute Apr 2014 #14

It is not a drop in the bucket of highly skilled tech jobs. nt pnwmom Apr 2014 #15

H1B visas are for fields which require a degree not just high skill tech jobs. Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #27

these jobs are going to foreigners who are replacing American workers. It's not as if they KittyWampus Apr 2014 #19

I personally know no one whose talent is laying brick. I do personally know programmers though Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #22

I have quite a few nail bangers & landscapers as friends who have seen huge amounts of competition KittyWampus Apr 2014 #69

i'm in IT myself, but quality masonry isn't cheap either... nt dionysus Apr 2014 #130

Let me put it this way. The undocumented immigrants are basically here to stay... Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #31

The National Society of Professional Enginerrs states that ... aggiesal Apr 2014 #38

Except that 821,000 isn't just out of 2 million. It's out of much more. Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #44

That needs to stop. At Duke, nearly all the students studying engineering are Chinese from China nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #57

The irony is that 564,000 of them were educated for those jobs in the US. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #21

Duke University (to give one example of many) is filled with Chinese who arrived directly from Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #23

Yes, hold on... Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #25

Here's another thing, those foreign nationals studying here and then asking for H1bs... Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #32

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #60

Jobs should go to citizens of the USA before immigrants. Skip Intro Apr 2014 #36

Particularly good jobs. I'm not so sure about picking cotton, picking fruit, etc. Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #37

No, I don't agree we can or should parse jobs like that. Skip Intro Apr 2014 #42

What? I think there are. I think as an advanced nation, we should have gone beyond that nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #56

Wow. Disagree. Plenty of hard workers in this country, unfraid to sweat and get dirty. Skip Intro Apr 2014 #58

Why are you changing the topic? Just curious. The topic is loss of professional jobs via H1bs. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #72

Was responding to your "picking cotton, picking fruit" statement. Skip Intro Apr 2014 #79

I was returning it back to the OP - which deals with high paying, professional jobs being taken from Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #82

Not everyone can be an engineer, Sarah woolldog Apr 2014 #107

No, but American citizens who are engineers are currently out of work. We're being ripped off Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #108

The problem with that is if JoeyT Apr 2014 #64

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #61

Companies are getting tax breaks, and its still cheaper than hiring American workers HipChick Apr 2014 #41

Yes, and businesses and universities are complicit in giving away good jobs to H1b immigrants: Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #103

Hillary's a big proponent of H-1B's. I wonder if she'll tone down this rhetoric if she runs. octoberlib Apr 2014 #48

Corporate welfare is cool when Dems do it - right? polichick Apr 2014 #96

Everyone should be able to move to wherever they f*cking they want, snot Apr 2014 #63

Incorrect. This country belongs to Americans, and if corporations can't offer jobs to them, they Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #71

Wow. You sure it's just corporations you despise? Hoyt Apr 2014 #102

No. I also despise Republicans, Nazis, fascists, anyone anti-union, pedophiles, and people who Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #111

Hear, hear!!! U4ikLefty Apr 2014 #109

Thanks! Well, that's a reverse argument they're trying out on me to see if it works :) Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #112

I think you misunderstood my post. snot Apr 2014 #113

+1 sagat Apr 2014 #131

H1B Population FormerOstrich Apr 2014 #67

You and I agree that the system is corrupt, and part of its corruption is giving jobs to immigrants Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #70

Just give out green cards and end H-1Bs completely. gulliver Apr 2014 #76

You make a really good point! Make them all jump through the same hoops required by the green card Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #80

Honestly? Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #125

How are the parties different on this? polichick Apr 2014 #77

This is the usual corporate control. The kind the right wing SC just gave more power to nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #81

Meaning both parties are big on corporate welfare? polichick Apr 2014 #86

I don't discuss Naderite politics. Sorry. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #90

lol - you don't answer pertinent questions either... polichick Apr 2014 #91

I think I've already explained this to you. I don't discuss Naderite politics. It's repulsive. Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #92

Who mentioned Nader? I didn't vote for him, or mention him. polichick Apr 2014 #95

She won't answer, but I will nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #97

It's so weird. Upstream that poster wonders what can be done... polichick Apr 2014 #98

You are in academia nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #99

Here is a link you might want to read nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #78

Thanks for posting those links. Hoyt Apr 2014 #93

You welcome, it is just fascinating policy level nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #94

Do corporations still encourage young Americans to study math & science anymore? reformist2 Apr 2014 #104

From what I understand from someone in IT... AngryOldDem Apr 2014 #105

From what I've seen at Duke University, it's a whole industry... Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #106

You know, Sarah, the Bill Gates led attack on public education is related.. WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2014 #114

It really angers the hell out of me that he's involved in dismantling public schools and defending Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #115

Did you see what Robert Reich posted today on Facebook? WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2014 #116

Maybe it's our fault. For a while we thought high tech corps were not corporations Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #117

K&R.. butterfly77 Apr 2014 #118

Thank you! nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #119

I agree with everything you said.. butterfly77 Apr 2014 #120

I believe it! Right wingers use the "politically correct" theme to defend corporations stealing Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #122

Exactly. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #124

Correct.. butterfly77 Apr 2014 #128