General Discussion

muriel_volestrangler

(106,149 posts)

146. If you think you don't know anything, then why argue this?

Sun Apr 6, 2014, 04:58 AM

Apr 2014

We know that the birth father was awarded custody by the courts. We know they heard all sides. There is nothing that we know that can paint the adopters as 'victims'.

"But there was no epic battle between him and the birth parents" - I presume that should read "between him and the adoptive parents", since he is the birth father. And there was a battle between him and them - he spent six months travelling to Missouri twice a week to fight it; when the baby was 6 months old, a court ordered them to bring him to Missouri, and when the father finally got to be in the same room as his son, they covered the baby so they couldn't see each other. That's a fight. And the adopters were behaving unreasonably in it. They were victimising the father. They knew they were not needed to adopt the child.

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Epic win for a three year old little boy who narrowly misses being lost to adoption! [View all] me b zola Apr 2014 OP

This is cause for celebration! me b zola Apr 2014 #1

The child will always have scars from losing the adoptive parents he'd bonded with. pnwmom Apr 2014 #2

I have to disagree with you me b zola Apr 2014 #3

This baby had never been with his bio father, so the only father he'd ever bonded with pnwmom Apr 2014 #4

�Maybe you are searching among the branches, for what only appears in the roots.� me b zola Apr 2014 #5

Your experience is your experience and no one can take it from you. pnwmom Apr 2014 #6

Thank you Dorian Gray Apr 2014 #69

babies go thru phases when they fear strangers elehhhhna Apr 2014 #11

Except that the article said he was afraid of his father and not of the father's lawyer. pnwmom Apr 2014 #12

Were they White??? BronxBoy Apr 2014 #15

And of course.... BronxBoy Apr 2014 #17

If smiling is the metric happiness is measured by Bettie Apr 2014 #19

This. IMO, is the biggest obstacle to adoptee rights: me b zola Apr 2014 #20

You are the one who insists over and over Bettie Apr 2014 #22

OMG, please link to when/where ever I have posted that an adoptee can never be happy! me b zola Apr 2014 #25

You said that an adoptee could never bond with adopted parents pnwmom Apr 2014 #31

When you called adoptees who said they were happy liars Bettie Apr 2014 #34

Does 'this person' know the circumstances surround his/her birth? AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #39

This individual has been made aware of the circumstances Bettie Apr 2014 #42

So this person is tainted AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #43

No, this person is forcing himself on her and forcing her to re-live the rape pnwmom Apr 2014 #59

. me b zola Apr 2014 #46

Have you suggested a restraining order to your friend? Nine Apr 2014 #73

She's at that point Bettie Apr 2014 #76

Can you blame the rape victim for not wanting to look into the face of someone pnwmom Apr 2014 #58

NO AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #79

I don't blame the young man pnwmom Apr 2014 #80

"Bitter", honey, is the adjective that those in the adoption industry like to use on adoptees who... me b zola Apr 2014 #45

Fine you win Bettie Apr 2014 #49

Because that is exactly what I said me b zola Apr 2014 #50

you did not deserve the experience you had - elehhhhna Apr 2014 #10

there was the birth mother who tortured and murdered her son JI7 Apr 2014 #13

Clearly, you win the thread me b zola Apr 2014 #21

Yes Yes, I do. Wholeheartedly. mzteris Apr 2014 #41

mzteris, I don't know how foster parents manage that emotional tightrope pnwmom Apr 2014 #62

Torn away? blueamy66 Apr 2014 #68

Children are resilient... BronxBoy Apr 2014 #7

I think it's more likely they covered his head because of the photographers pnwmom Apr 2014 #9

He stepped up..... BronxBoy Apr 2014 #14

Did he help support the mother financially while she was pregnant? pnwmom Apr 2014 #35

you really seem to not like this guy, why? dionysus Apr 2014 #93

I wish he had pursued this IMMEDIATELY, as in March, when the adoption agency called him. pnwmom Apr 2014 #95

ok. but be that as it may, kid looks happy, dad looks happy. seems like it turned out okay. dionysus Apr 2014 #99

Right. Do you think everything turned out okay for the adoptive parents? pnwmom Apr 2014 #118

it's sad for them, for sure, but if they are adults, they will move on.you don't seem to give a crap dionysus Apr 2014 #128

I wish the father had acted sooner to prevent the adoption. I've said repeatedly I agree with pnwmom Apr 2014 #133

If the father never signed away his parental rights avebury Apr 2014 #161

You can't sign away parental rights that you never claimed in the first place. pnwmom Apr 2014 #165

That is complete bull at least in FL where I did 2 adoptions maddezmom Apr 2014 #167

The adoption took place in Missouri, not Florida, and every state has its own adoption laws. pnwmom Apr 2014 #171

So CA and FL are different...bet MO law is as well. maddezmom Apr 2014 #173

Every state is different. They don't all have Putative Father Registries, for example, pnwmom Apr 2014 #175

As usual, he told the adoption agency immediately that he didn't want the adoption. StevieM Apr 2014 #114

That's what he says. But a judge dismissed his lawsuit against the agency. pnwmom Apr 2014 #120

He told them that he didn't want an adoption. That should have been the end of it. StevieM Apr 2014 #129

Immediately? You mean, when he told them no the first time they contacted him? kcr Apr 2014 #137

Do you have evidence for that besides what he's saying now? pnwmom Apr 2014 #139

Looks to me like it was her refusal to go to the doctor Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #24

We're only hearing one side of this, pnwmom Apr 2014 #28

She refused to go to a doctor, and she started the adopting process without telling him muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #65

Yeah, he makes her look like a heel. She refused to go to a doctor -- according to him. pnwmom Apr 2014 #90

He told the adoption agency in March he wanted the baby muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #102

That's what he says. But a judge has already dismissed his lawsuit against the agency. pnwmom Apr 2014 #103

They thought their desires came before the rights of the baby's father muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #105

They didn't know about the father when the adopted the child, and there is no evidence pnwmom Apr 2014 #106

We don't know if they knew before they adopted; we know the agency knew muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #110

We don't even KNOW the agency knew. All we KNOW is that the father claims pnwmom Apr 2014 #132

If you think you don't know anything, then why argue this? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #146

Because I don't think people are being fair to the adoptive parents. pnwmom Apr 2014 #149

The baby did not need to be adopted, and the couple knew that at the latest by January muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #152

Where did you get the January date? And without their side of the story pnwmom Apr 2014 #154

They lost custody in July; the father spent 6 months going to Missouri for the court muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #158

All we have to go on are the father's statements about what he did pnwmom Apr 2014 #163

You call the articles 'biased'; you have no reason to say that muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #164

Of course I do. The reporter doesn't say they even got as much as a "no comment" pnwmom Apr 2014 #166

The article in the OP doesn't include "and find out for sure" Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #75

But doctors don't suggest women go in for prenatal care as soon as they get a pregnancy test pnwmom Apr 2014 #107

I doubt either one of them had a clue what doctors might expect Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #130

You don't know how far along you are until you go to the Dr Heddi Apr 2014 #153

They don't say, "let's wait a while." They do say, "when was the date of your last period?" pnwmom Apr 2014 #168

Did you read the link you provided Heddi Apr 2014 #174

Yes, schedule it. It doesn't say schedule it immediately. It says that the first appointment pnwmom Apr 2014 #176

I'm sure race is playing a big part in this although it's not really mentioned malaise Apr 2014 #16

Of course...... BronxBoy Apr 2014 #18

My daughter did the same thing to black men when she was a baby. bravenak Apr 2014 #54

How do you know with an unknown child, like the little Mexican girl, what she is reacting to? pnwmom Apr 2014 #56

Her dad told me that she had never met a black person up close. bravenak Apr 2014 #60

The father had probably noticed it before then. . . . and maybe also communicated something to her. pnwmom Apr 2014 #61

The santa line is always full of screamers. bravenak Apr 2014 #63

It's hard to know what little kids think about race sometimes. My son is color-blind, pnwmom Apr 2014 #64

Your son makes more sense than most of us. bravenak Apr 2014 #67

There was another time when he was about 7. pnwmom Apr 2014 #77

Sorry that your son is color blind.... blueamy66 Apr 2014 #100

I used to feel bad for him about it pnwmom Apr 2014 #101

Oh freaking man... AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #38

The child has been liberated and united with his rightful family. I have no doubt that StevieM Apr 2014 #112

MN requires the father's consent for adoption BainsBane Apr 2014 #8

This did not occur in MN Bonobo Apr 2014 #29

The law determines what that is BainsBane Apr 2014 #33

Missouri is one of the states that has a Putative Father Registry pnwmom Apr 2014 #57

I feel so much hatred for the people who 'adopted' the baby. Boudica the Lyoness Apr 2014 #23

Right? Who could do this? me b zola Apr 2014 #26

The real elephant in the room here Bonobo Apr 2014 #27

Have you seen a report that they knew about the father's interest when they adopted? n/t pnwmom Apr 2014 #36

Have you seen one that they didn't? AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #40

That is my point. We don't know both sides. pnwmom Apr 2014 #48

The mother and adoption agency are to blame... Violet_Crumble Apr 2014 #55

No.... BronxBoy Apr 2014 #84

The people adopted through an agency. Why should you hate them when pnwmom Apr 2014 #30

me b zola, what is your story? Nine Apr 2014 #32

Thank you for asking me b zola Apr 2014 #44

I don't want to know my history. blueamy66 Apr 2014 #70

I guess I thought there would be more to your story. Nine Apr 2014 #71

The current standard is often for prospective adoptive parents to promise an open adoption StevieM Apr 2014 #117

That goes both ways. Nine Apr 2014 #155

Have you read if he signed up on Missouri's "Putative Father Registry," since he knew about pnwmom Apr 2014 #37

I note that my state is in the list of 24 states. Your post educated me. LiberalAndProud Apr 2014 #85

It's too bad he didn't consult a lawyer right away -- but I realize that costs money pnwmom Apr 2014 #86

It seems like consulting a family lawyer would have among the first strategies. LiberalAndProud Apr 2014 #88

Every state should have one. There would be a lot less suffering. pnwmom Apr 2014 #92

Yeah, this... me b zola Apr 2014 #47

Speaking of truth, Orwell did not actually say nor write that. Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #162

I agree with you totally. bravenak Apr 2014 #51

No need to apologize, I loved reading every word that you wrote me b zola Apr 2014 #52

Thank you. bravenak Apr 2014 #53

Have you tried "23 and me"? Nine Apr 2014 #81

What!?! bravenak Apr 2014 #122

They dropped the price. Nine Apr 2014 #134

Coolio. bravenak Apr 2014 #135

I'm overjoyed for baby and father! MoonRiver Apr 2014 #66

I disagree Dorian Gray Apr 2014 #72

I agree with you that it's the right call, pnwmom Apr 2014 #78

But at some point..... BronxBoy Apr 2014 #82

I didn't say their loss was more profound and I didn't say I disagreed with the decision. pnwmom Apr 2014 #87

But you seem to be ok.. BronxBoy Apr 2014 #91

It's a fact that he knew as early as March that the ex was pursuing adoption -- he said so. pnwmom Apr 2014 #94

He was for all BronxBoy Apr 2014 #98

Never mind, found it maddezmom Apr 2014 #109

I totally agree with you here. Dorian Gray Apr 2014 #126

I can see why foreign adoption is so popular vankuria Apr 2014 #74

But didn't this father have his child.... BronxBoy Apr 2014 #83

This is a sad story all the way around vankuria Apr 2014 #89

Yeah ...... BronxBoy Apr 2014 #96

Agreed vankuria Apr 2014 #97

The father was involved from before the birth; the adopters lost custody after about 10 months muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #104

He failed to start the legal proceedings in March 2010, which could have prevented the adoption pnwmom Apr 2014 #108

He told the adoption agency he wanted the child muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #111

That's what he says. But for some reason the judge dismissed his lawsuit pnwmom Apr 2014 #116

The adoption agency should have stopped the adoption as soon as he said he wanted it muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #121

Where is your evidence that he told them? Other than what he claims? pnwmom Apr 2014 #123

Other than the *entire* evidence we have? Why, what other evidence could we have? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #125

We have no evidence. All we have are newspaper articles, all from the point of view pnwmom Apr 2014 #127

He's Black ... BronxBoy Apr 2014 #178

I WILL tell you that this baby is better off staying with her mom than being adopted (eom) StevieM Apr 2014 #115

Oh really. Then you must be disappointed that the Mom is no longer sharing custody. pnwmom Apr 2014 #124

First of all, you didn't read the post I was responding to. It wasn't about this case. StevieM Apr 2014 #131

Why is it an "epic win" to go from having his biological father and mother sharing custody 50/50 pnwmom Apr 2014 #113

This is a wonderful story. It is a shame that sometimes it doesn't go this way and StevieM Apr 2014 #119

When I hear of stories like this I am very conflicted. SheilaT Apr 2014 #136

I think you are underestimating how corrupt and dishonest adoption agencies are (eom) StevieM Apr 2014 #138

Do you have a link for that? Anything besides anecdotal evidence? n/t pnwmom Apr 2014 #140

I suggest you go to websites like First Mother Forum, Musings of the Lame, or StevieM Apr 2014 #142

Anecdotal reports aren't enough to back up such a sweeping claim. pnwmom Apr 2014 #143

I agree. It looks like he'll be a good father, but if he'd acted sooner he could have blocked pnwmom Apr 2014 #141

You make a very important point which has been overlooked in this discussion. SheilaT Apr 2014 #144

Yes, in older generations most adoptions were probably informal. pnwmom Apr 2014 #145

In my cousin's case, her mother was never willing to sign SheilaT Apr 2014 #156

Based upon the article, it sounded like this young avebury Apr 2014 #147

You seem to have overlooked the fact that the young man himself said pnwmom Apr 2014 #148

Coulda, shoulda, woulda...... BronxBoy Apr 2014 #157

I hardly expect for any young college age kid avebury Apr 2014 #159

Any college student is smart enough to call a lawyer and connected enough pnwmom Apr 2014 #169

Had the adoption gone thru or was the infant just placed with the adoptive parents maddezmom Apr 2014 #170

You're right -- it probably wasn't finalized. But the 15 day legal deadline for the father pnwmom Apr 2014 #172

Up until the instant of birth, it's her body and her choice. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #150

The problem was that the father says he was notified of the adoption in March pnwmom Apr 2014 #177

Will the birth mother be required to pay child support? n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #151

I would hope so! avebury Apr 2014 #160