General Discussion

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)

79. You may not like this answer, but no

Tue Mar 27, 2012, 04:27 PM

Mar 2012

In the context of stand-your-ground, Zimmerman could have quite properly shot Martin at a bit of a distance.

Hypothetical: A person attacks you. You end up rolling on the ground getting hit. You manage to scramble away. The person (who you have legitimate reason to fear in the context of this hypothetical) takes a step toward you.

Under stand-your-ground you may fire. You don't need to wait until he is hitting you again. You are not obliged to run away even if you have a clear path to do so.

So the assumption that the shot was fired between two wrestling people is not necessary to the defense.

(And anyone wondering why I am "defending" Zimmerman in this reply, save it. This is an abstract discussion of the law, not a claim as to what happened in the particular case.)

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If Trayvon was beating Zimmerman when he was shot ... [View all] GOTV Mar 2012 OP

no it doesn't make sense abelenkpe Mar 2012 #1

if Trayvon knocked Zimmerman down with one punch, and was pounding his head against the sidewalk Bluerthanblue Mar 2012 #2

He didn't even have stitches. His story is crap. madaboutharry Mar 2012 #7

Also, if he had a broken nose DocMac Mar 2012 #26

And if Zimmerman was walking away how did Trayvon punch him in the nose? Ganja Ninja Mar 2012 #29

I'm not buying it either. nt DocMac Mar 2012 #34

and why weren't these "witnesses" to GZ walking away (or being on the ground) zbdent Mar 2012 #43

I've never seen anyone that got punched in the nose Aerows Mar 2012 #77

Have you seen immediate post event photos of Zimmerman? ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #81

I've yet to see one without a vicious bleed, either Aerows Mar 2012 #85

Have YOU seen a punch Aerows Mar 2012 #98

Yes, but not direct to the face ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #99

You are discussing the dojo Aerows Mar 2012 #104

That is not the legal standard ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #105

you need to read up on current events Aerows Mar 2012 #106

Actually I was posting links to it before I went to dinner ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #108

Okay. Aerows Mar 2012 #109

Ahhh that was 4 hours ago and the sushi was excellent. ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #111

Good sushi is awesome Aerows Mar 2012 #112

Oh, and I forgot Aerows Mar 2012 #107

Well, at least I am better informed on these issues and was trying to separate truth from ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #110

No, "Professor" Aerows Mar 2012 #113

Right. And anyone in their right mind DocMac Mar 2012 #87

No photos Aerows Mar 2012 #91

I'm in complete agreement. DocMac Mar 2012 #96

No photos...that we know of ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #100

Yeah, I heard that claim that Trayvon was beating his head against the sidewalk ... GOTV Mar 2012 #8

The allegation is that they were struggling over the gun marshall Mar 2012 #20

That's interesting, how is a gun being fired during a struggle ... GOTV Mar 2012 #23

It was a 9mm and that sounds like a semi-auto. DocMac Mar 2012 #31

"If it was a semi-auto, he would just need to pull back the hammer and pull the trigger" Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #38

Oh, I see. DocMac Mar 2012 #54

Yep, you've got it. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #57

IIRC the police report said it was a Kel Tec ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #82

Could be he cleared it kudzu22 Mar 2012 #35

Yes, utter b/s. Any EMS crew would IMMEDIATELY transport a pt to the ER who K Gardner Mar 2012 #18

And as I pointed last night nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #24

Exactly. n/t K Gardner Mar 2012 #36

That is one of several official records that need to be seen ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #80

Yes CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #3

We're also asked to believe... Oilwellian Mar 2012 #4

Police believe Zimmerman was the one crying for help. dkf Mar 2012 #27

Witness to the incident emphatically believes otherwise... LanternWaste Mar 2012 #47

Another witness says otherwise ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #83

I tend to believe the person found to have more physical damage was probably the one yelling. dkf Mar 2012 #84

Trayvon Martin's mother thinks otherwise Oilwellian Mar 2012 #52

where was zimmerman when the shot was fired? grasswire Mar 2012 #5

Another good observatiion, there's no account were ZMan is standing uponit7771 Mar 2012 #9

I'm thinking that if Zimmerman had any injuries or grass stains at all, gkhouston Mar 2012 #14

Great observation, there's no realy good way to shoot someone with good aim if you're getting punche uponit7771 Mar 2012 #6

I imagine that would be tough. But if Trayvon were on top of him ... GOTV Mar 2012 #12

Yeah, but he would have to chamber a round. DocMac Mar 2012 #32

Unless a round was chambered. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #39

Right. But post #20 above states that DocMac Mar 2012 #50

Or he took the clip out and cleared it after the shooting. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #51

Yeah, He would have cleared it. DocMac Mar 2012 #56

A lot still needs to come out. I still don't even know what gun he had. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #58

I don't have the link. DocMac Mar 2012 #61

Looks like it was a little double action semi-auto. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #64

Yeah, that makes sense. nt DocMac Mar 2012 #73

KelTec PF9 .. see link X_Digger Mar 2012 #62

Ah, I'm familiar with it. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #63

it would also indicate a wound made at extremely close range. WI_DEM Mar 2012 #10

+1!!!!! I think from CIS episodes they can tell how far away a shot was fired uponit7771 Mar 2012 #65

He would have Mr. Martin's blood on him alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #11

If Trayvon ... GeorgeGist Mar 2012 #13

What I don't get is how GZ is the innocent party LiberalFighter Mar 2012 #89

This is why police should be required to simply gather evidence properly at a crime scene DefenseLawyer Mar 2012 #15

I think that's the key failure of the Sanford PD. GOTV Mar 2012 #17

Do we know that evidence wasn't collected? X_Digger Mar 2012 #46

Personally I don't know what evidence was or wasn't collected ... GOTV Mar 2012 #67

We definitely have an incomplete picture. X_Digger Mar 2012 #72

+1 uponit7771 Mar 2012 #66

It sorta sounds like that is what they did and the SA told them not to arrest Zimmerman ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #101

A very good question atreides1 Mar 2012 #16

If Zimmerman walks, expect riots. nt DocMac Mar 2012 #37

Why was Trayvon's body face down? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2012 #19

I didn't know that we still don't know where the bullet went in. GOTV Mar 2012 #21

Bullets only move bodies on TV kudzu22 Mar 2012 #40

Yes, and in addition there would gunpowder on Trayvons clothes. HooptieWagon Mar 2012 #22

Oh Com'on blood spatter from being shot short range? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #25

Actually, yes. HooptieWagon Mar 2012 #30

I know nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #33

Blood splatter and powder residue are junk science DefenseLawyer Mar 2012 #41

Why in real life we were told to nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #44

The FBI abandoned residue testing in 2006 DefenseLawyer Mar 2012 #55

Don't you know that cops can zoom in on a digital picture and.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #48

For real jury instructions locally include forgetting all you saw nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #68

I can imagine that. X_Digger Mar 2012 #74

According to local prosecutor nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #76

Some don't exist at all.. (taking reflections from pictures, blowing them up, getting detail..) X_Digger Mar 2012 #78

This message was self-deleted by its author ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #86

I believe if Zimmerman shot Trayvon up close there should also be gunpowder residue on Uncle Joe Mar 2012 #28

If Zimmerman Was That Beaten Up, Wouldn't The Sanford Police Call An Ambulance Yavin4 Mar 2012 #42

Sanford Fire Rescue checked him out in the back of the cruiser, apparently.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #49

Your Link Does Not Contain A Report from the Paramedics Yavin4 Mar 2012 #53

I didn't say it did.. just that SFRescue apparently checked him out. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #60

That is far from the only report being withheld at this point ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #102

why does that say "unneccessary killing"? onethatcares Mar 2012 #70

Looks like an internal code to me. X_Digger Mar 2012 #71

I want to see an original crime scene photograph onethatcares Mar 2012 #45

I want to see the trajectory report. Ganja Ninja Mar 2012 #59

It could be that Sanford PD doesn't have proper protocols. LiberalFighter Mar 2012 #90

You are aware that the police and later EMS tried to resuscitate Martin? ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #103

It seems like the point of entry of the bullet and the range etc. K8-EEE Mar 2012 #69

I don't believe Trayvon was beating Zimmerman when he was shot Life Long Dem Mar 2012 #75

You may not like this answer, but no cthulu2016 Mar 2012 #79

Yes and the first thing Johnson20 Mar 2012 #92

Zimmerman's story is a load of bullpucky. ananda Mar 2012 #88

Your proof please! What would you testifiy to in a court of law? n/t Johnson20 Mar 2012 #93

You keep confusing an internet forum with a court of law. Odd uppityperson Mar 2012 #94

No, just pointing out stupid, naive and prejudicial comments, as we all should. Johnson20 Mar 2012 #95

And others are pointing out how odd you think this is a trial Rex Mar 2012 #97

One thing is certain now... Oilwellian Mar 2012 #114