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AnalystInParadise

(1,832 posts)
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:41 AM Apr 2014

We are not capable of truly reinforcing Eastern Europe, math is not on our side [View all]

I don't care what the NATO commander says, he does not have the forces at his disposal. The Army has 44 Brigades, but the vast majority of them cannot go to Russia for various reasons. A unit in reset means that the unit has less than 60% of its normal personnel and is in the process of turning in and replacing worn out equipment from a recently completed deployment. Also it takes 3-6 months to generate the necessary combat power to deploy. Combat power is the numbers of well trained troops needed to complete a mission. A unit that is deactivating means that its personnel are being shipped off and its equipment is being used in other resets if possible. A unit deactivating is for all intents and purposes not a real unit, it is in the process of being cannibalized. The NIE unit at Bliss is off the table for any taskings as its soldiers and equipment are unable to deploy due to the experimental nature of their mission and the testing going on with NEXTGEN equipment. The NORTHCOM mission is the Homeland Defense/Civil Disorder mission and the Brigade on that mission is dedicated and non deployable. The AFRICOM mission is to support the SF/SEAL mission in Africa hunting the LRA and other groups such as Boko Haram. We also have the better part of a Brigade in South Korea showing our commitment to the South Koreans in face of recent North Korean aggressive moves.

So WHAT IS LEFT?

We have 11 Brigades that could go to Europe if a war broke out. But there is a catch. Of the 11 remaining Brigades only 2 are Armored (Heavy Brigades), the two Brigades from 3rd ID in Georgia are Tank and Mech heavy. They are the only credible counter to the Russians. Unfortunately it takes 60 days to fully deploy Armored Brigades. So any action by Russia would leave a 2 month window before we could ship the Brigades personnel and equipment to Eastern Europe. So that leaves 9 Brigades that could also go. Of the remaining 9, 4 are Stryker Brigades. Of this 4, three are on the West Coast and Alaska, about as far from Europe as you can get from Europe. Strykers can deploy faster, but the distance is huge and would mean a 45 day (roughly) time frame before they arrived in Eastern Europe. And one of the Brigades is in Alaska, not sure we would deploy them for Strategic purposes. The remaining 5 Brigades are all Airborne Infantry or Air Assault Infantry, not exactly the force you want going up against Russian armored forces. We can deploy them, but their weapons and capabilities are not configured to resist an Armored force. They could be in Eastern Europe and setup 2-3 weeks after a war began in Ukraine. So they could be used, but their mission profile does not match the Russian threat. In a 90 day window, we could deploy 10 Brigades, the equivalent of 45,000 soldiers, but doing so would leave us with ZERO RESERVES to face any other threat, and would also leave us with no replacement units if the war escalated. In essence, all we have to throw at Russia right now if we had to is 45,000 combat soldiers from the Army and about 25,000 Marines. That is it....there are no more due to our deployment commitments. It would take six months to a year to generate additional combat power from our reset units and the National Guard and Reserve.

We have two Brigades normally in Europe, but 1 of them (2nd Stryker) is in Afghanistan right now, leaving only another Airborne unit (173rd) in Italy as the only Combat Brigade in Europe right now.

What does this mean?

Our options are incredibly limited to successfully reinforce Eastern Europe with a credible defensive force. About all we could accomplish is to keep Russia out of Poland, but that doesn't seem to be the goal for Putin. Our chances of offensively moving into Ukraine with the forces available are not optimal for us. We would not send 25,000 Airborne Infantry soldiers into a fight against 50,000 Mech and Armored Russian soldiers. Especially since our current unit structure for Airborne/Air Assault is a Counter Insurgency fight, we have not trained to fight a conventional Armored threat for over a decade. Our training for these light forces is totally irrelevant and they would take large amounts of casualties.

We are not exactly screwed, but we are not really able to provide an effective military deterrent at this time. My background is a 20 year intelligence analyst for the Army (retired) who did a lot of work on Russia and Central Asia. We are in a tough spot and not likely to commit military forces. As for the Marine Corps, they are in a similar spot with about 25% of their combat power available, but facing the same logistical and deployment issues the Army has.

Army Breakdown:
Order of Battle: 44 Army Brigades

1st Armored Division,(Fort Bliss, TX) 4 Brigades
1st Brigade in reset (non-deployable)
2nd Brigade (NIE, Future War testing, non deployable)
3rd Brigade (deactivating right now, non deployable)
4th Brigade (NORTHCOM mission, non-deployable)

1st Infantry Division (Fort Riley Kansas) 4 Brigades
1st Brigade (deploying to Afghanistan on last deployment cycle)
2nd Brigade (AFRICOM mission, deploying to Africa)
3rd Brigade (deactivating right now, non deployable)
4th Brigade Deployable

1st Cavalry Division Fort Hood, TX/South Korea 4 Brigades
1st Brigade (reset non-deployable)
2nd Brigade (Deployed to Afghanistan)
3rd Brigade (Currently in South Korea on temporary mission)
4th Brigade (Deactivating right now, non deployable)

2nd Infantry Division Fort Lewis/South Korea 4 Brigades
1st Brigade (stationed in South Korea)
2nd Brigade Deployable (Stryker)
3rd Brigade Deployable (Stryker)
4th Brigade Deactivating right now

2nd Stryker Cavalry Brigade (Germany)
Deployed to Afghanistan

3rd Infantry Division Fort Stewart/Fort Benning GA 4 Brigades
1st Brigade (reset, non deployable)
2nd Brigade Deployable
3rd Brigade Deployable
4th Brigade (Reset, non deployable)

3rd ACR (Fort Hood, TX)
Deploying to Afghanistan in June

4th Infantry Division (Fort Carson, CO) 4 Brigades
1st Brigade (Reset, converting to Stryker Brigade, non deployable)
2nd Brigade (Deployed to Kuwait)
3rd Brigade (Deployable)
4th Brigade (Deploying to Afghanistan NOW)

10th Mountain Division (Fort Drum NY/Fort Polk LA) 4 Brigades
1st Brigade Deployed to Afghanistan
2nd Brigade Deployable
3rd Brigade Deployed to Afghanistan
4th Brigade (OPFOR Training unit, non deployable)

11th ACR (Fort Irwin, CA)
OPFOR training unit (non deployable)


25th Infantry Division (Schofield Barracks, HI, Alaska) 4 Brigades
1st Brigade (Alaska) Emergency deployment Brigade for Afghanistan (non deployable anywhere else)
2nd Brigade (Hawaii) PRF Pacific Response Force (non deployable)
3rd Brigade (Hawaii) PRF Pacific Response Force (non deployable
4th Brigade (Alaska) Deployable

82nd Airborne (Fort Bragg, NC) 4 Brigades
1st Brigade (deploying to Afghanistan for last rotation)
2nd Brigade Deployable
3rd Brigade Deployable
4th Brigade (Deactivating, non deployable)

101st Airborne (Fort Campbell, KY) 4 Brigades
1st Brigade (reset, non deployable)
2nd Brigade Deployed to Afghanistan
3rd Brigade Deployable
4th Brigade (Deactivating non deployable)

173rd Airborne Brigade (Italy)
Deployable

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For the record AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #1
I dont mean to be condescending or anything like that darkangel218 Apr 2014 #47
Everything I posted is open source AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #66
Ahh okay, thanks darkangel218 Apr 2014 #95
The only people who will get mad are Janes Recursion Apr 2014 #109
LOL AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #110
They still have the hull numbers on the USN's LCAC fleet wrong Recursion Apr 2014 #112
'Homeland Defense/Civil Disorder' mission? House of Roberts Apr 2014 #2
2012 AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #7
Thanks Obama? House of Roberts Apr 2014 #27
we won't have a shooting war with russia. nt dionysus Apr 2014 #3
I agree AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #10
Excellent analysis BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #4
Unsure AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #11
Well, it wouldn't be just us. And a war is not all army. TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #5
No it wouldn't be all Army AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #9
Again, though, it would be a NATO effort to defend Poland or Latvia or whatever. TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #17
And what NATO forces are you talking about AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #21
We are not going to war for Ukraine, either. I'm talking about TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #26
A breakdown of NATO shows it is strong enough to deter Russia AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #31
Honestly there is only one fear AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #34
Analyst BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #19
Depends AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #24
Assumptions are wrong 4Q2u2 Apr 2014 #132
Are you for real? AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #134
Am I for Real 4Q2u2 Apr 2014 #135
Spin up fast? AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #137
What happened to 2ACR? Adsos Letter Apr 2014 #6
2ACR AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #8
Thanks! Where are they posted in Germany, now that border duty isn't a thing? Adsos Letter Apr 2014 #12
Vilseck AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #13
Hah! And their arty FOs are probably stuck adjusting fire for every unit that Adsos Letter Apr 2014 #16
Curiously, my old battalion from Vietnam recently was reactivated with a different division pinboy3niner Apr 2014 #29
If NATO goes to war against Russia...the human race may not survive davidn3600 Apr 2014 #14
You assume the Russians would go nuclear. They won't, and it is Western misunderstanding AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #18
If Russia invades a NATO nation....we are at war davidn3600 Apr 2014 #22
We are not is disagreement about what happens IF AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #25
If a confrontation erupted with Russia now.... idendoit Apr 2014 #92
You seem to assume that NATO would gain Air Superiority AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #97
Russian pilots are trained not to take the initiative. idendoit Apr 2014 #98
Because there is a military profile for the military AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #100
Thank you for your service. idendoit Apr 2014 #102
That is definitely an advantage AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #103
We never were... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #15
You were able to get weed? Adsos Letter Apr 2014 #20
You're right... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #28
Just adding some grain to the grist nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #23
Just out of curiosity AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #30
Right now AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #32
Kind of a frightening thought in a way AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #33
We have the manpower AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #35
No one would use nukes? AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #36
Why would it be logical? AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #37
Well, if you feel like you're going to be defeated and taken over AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #40
But launching nukes would kill your own people AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #41
There's been a lot of close calls, no? AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #42
There were two close calls in 50 years AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #44
Well there was the Norwegian incident in the 90s AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #45
I don't mean to nitpick AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #46
They weren't close calls? AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #48
Putin put 'limited' nuclear strikes into the Russian playbook Bosonic Apr 2014 #50
NATO "reenforcing Eastern EU" = Nukes joshcryer Apr 2014 #38
The NATO commander AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #39
In NATO states. joshcryer Apr 2014 #43
The Russians wouldn't be able to hit the US with nukes? AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #49
No, ABM and SBIRS are perfected. joshcryer Apr 2014 #51
What if they fired nukes high enough in the atmosphere AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #52
I am saying simply US can destroy them all. joshcryer Apr 2014 #53
But I don't see how we could destroy either nukes denotated in the atmosphere AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #54
Atmo nukes, or "Strangelove" nukes aren't considered. joshcryer Apr 2014 #56
Well, if I may ask, what's your sources? AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #57
complete and utter bullshit shaayecanaan Apr 2014 #62
Technology has increased exponentially... joshcryer Apr 2014 #81
They're not shaayecanaan Apr 2014 #101
I am highly dubious of the 99.9% claim Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #130
Would not bet on that myself BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #74
I am not as sanguine about ABM systems Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #82
Also BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #116
what do you think of this scenario politicman Apr 2014 #60
On the bright side CFLDem Apr 2014 #65
All this discussion about what various leaders in the US and Russia would do has been-- eridani Apr 2014 #55
I doubt either want war. AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #58
I think that we are paying way to much attention to Putin avebury Apr 2014 #59
You seem to be planning to fight WW3 muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #61
I am not planning or supporting anything. AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #67
The OP is too long and boring to read carefully muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #68
Actually, I am not talking about that at all. AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #70
That OP was an informative and very interesting read. Desert805 Apr 2014 #76
Strangely enough, no, the dispostion of every brigade in the US army is not interesting muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #79
WTH? AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #85
I am not saying you are advocating total war; I'm saying you're analysing it muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #88
Ok AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #91
Its your scenario of sending massive numbers of troops to Ukraine - or Russia! - in the OP muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #93
No I am not. AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #94
That quote is from your OP. muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #96
No AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #99
I'm afraid of war breaking out any minute now... AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #69
But that's just on DU pinboy3niner Apr 2014 #71
Nah, I deeply am afraid. I don't want to see some full-scale war break out. AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #73
The prospect of war is still pretty remote pinboy3niner Apr 2014 #78
My fear is rationality will fly out the window as tensions rise. AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #122
I already knew that... shaayecanaan Apr 2014 #63
"What chance do they have against a great power"...seriously? TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #64
Russia is not a great military power hack89 Apr 2014 #72
I agree Russia is not a first rate military power AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #75
Hopefully we will never have to find out. nt hack89 Apr 2014 #77
Devils advocate nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #108
Genghis Khan could shaayecanaan Apr 2014 #111
I know, but just wanted to point out that Afghanistan is exactly where empires nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #115
I like this RobertEarl Apr 2014 #80
This is my first thought as well NobodyHere Apr 2014 #84
How does China figure into this? Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #83
China remains AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #86
Thank you for your exteremly informative Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #127
carrier groups are great for mobility, but not so great against a whole enemy country politicman Apr 2014 #89
Carriers are great as a mobile projection of power Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #126
Can China's carrier steam under its own power yet? Recursion Apr 2014 #105
It is sheer logistics and Sealift AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #107
What I read about the carrier Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #125
So, the joke is, China doesn't need a carrier Recursion Apr 2014 #129
Well, it is the PR Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #131
It definitely did Recursion Apr 2014 #133
China will take Taiwan without a shot being fired LittleBlue Apr 2014 #117
This is more likely AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #119
By the way, your OP is superb LittleBlue Apr 2014 #120
Thank you very much AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #121
Mao said it to Kissinger Recursion Apr 2014 #124
k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Apr 2014 #87
Even at the height of the Cold War.... idendoit Apr 2014 #90
The Corps gets ignored again... Recursion Apr 2014 #104
Marine Corps was not ignored AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #106
Correct but Separation Apr 2014 #113
I don't think we could ever really make the armed forces able to defend Europe AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #123
Yes, but could we arm a resistance to the teeth? Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #114
Since the Russians AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #118
No expert here PATRICK Apr 2014 #128
Good. Maybe diplomacy and cooler heads will prevail. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #136
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