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Tom Rinaldo

(23,193 posts)
30. Yes. This is key
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 08:19 AM
Apr 2014

I have long opposed nuclear energy with two arguments central to my conclusion. You make note of both here. One is the unreliability of humans above and beyond the reliability of the technology we devise. The other is the extreme mulch-dimensional aspect of a nuclear catastrophe I have argued that it wasn't the vulnerability to a tsunami that make Fukushima so dangerous, it was the inherent human tendency to cut corners and fail to properly prepare for contingencies that were seen as unlikely. In Japan it turned out to be a tsunami, somewhere else it may prove to be a coordinated terrorist attack that "no one could have foreseen". Somewhere else it could be defective building materials and faked inspections that officials were bribed to sign off on.

In Southern California it could end up being the Hosgri earthquake fault that was discovered and initially covered up after the plans for the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power plant had already been approved. It was literally during a massive civil disobedience blockade of Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power plant in the early 80's that an engineer blew the whistle on the inconvenient fact that somehow the plant owners, PG&E, had screwed up installing the earthquake supports that were ordered for the two units after the new fault line was discovered running very close to the plant. The two units had symmetrical but inverted layouts, and millions of dollars worth of retrofitting on each got installed for both using blueprints that, in each case, were intended for the opposing unit. Which meant that the retrofits were useless and added no structural strength to either unit. Although it has never been confirmed I am certain that the very expensive error that took years to subsequently correct would never have been revealed had thousands of protesters and international media not been converging on Diablo Canyon on the literal day when the error "was discovered".

This is where the second issue which I call the mulch-dimensional aspect of the nuclear threat comes in. When engineers screw up the design of a parking garage, or contractors shave cost with lower grade steel, and it collapses a tragedy can follow, but that tragedy is contained for the most part to the immediate vicinity and to those lives that were directly touched by the physical collapse of that structure. Radiation is different. Virtually all releases into the atmosphere or seas ultimately move toward global. Radiation is ingested and moves up the food chain. Microscopic partials lodge in the body and can cause death a decade or more later. Radiation can mutate our genes making the threat it causes inter-generational. Because of the half life of the radioactive isotopes created and released large areas of land and major water bodies can become fatally contaminated for decades, centuries, or longer.

Nuclear wastes must be isolated from the environment for eons. Not only does that require technology that we have not mastered, it requires an assumption of extremely long term societal stability regardless of the technology utilized. The United States government still can't safely contain radioactive wastes that we are actively monitoring in Washington State a half century after it was created. Japan, another first world nation, can't contain the radioactive sea water it is creating trying to prevent further fuel melt downs at Fukushima. Both nations are among the richest in the world and have full access to state of the art technology. What about the rest of the world where nuclear power plants operate? During my lifetime the Soviet Union collapsed and Iran went from being a front line U.S. client state to being one of this nations leading Geo-political adversaries. Pakistan may become as ungovernable some time in the not so distant future as Somalia is today. How many civilizations have come and gone during the half life of plutonium?

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"Three plants explode in the last 35 years"? Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #1
Right RobertEarl Apr 2014 #3
Your argument is kind of like saying "the Titanic sank, therefore we shouldn't build more ships" Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #6
That is false RobertEarl Apr 2014 #8
Are you serious? daveMN Apr 2014 #9
Eh? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #11
Coal and gasoline emissions kill far more every year than nuclear. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #13
We have like 2% total of nuclear sourced energy RobertEarl Apr 2014 #15
75% of energy in France is nuclear; how many meltdowns and evacuations have they had? Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #16
There was a report from France RobertEarl Apr 2014 #17
With the result that Germany is now burning more coal. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #19
Hmmm RobertEarl Apr 2014 #20
Actually, no, it doesn't. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #21
What are your plans for the nuke waste? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #22
There are any number of things that can be done with the waste. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #23
Well, you are wrong, again RobertEarl Apr 2014 #24
"Come up with ways to decrease CO2 by capture and storage" Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #25
Yes, I do RobertEarl Apr 2014 #31
The issue lies, I believe, in human reliability and laziness. Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #4
Yes. This is key Tom Rinaldo Apr 2014 #30
Nuclear power was and continues to be the safest form of mass energy production. Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #2
Safest? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #5
Nuclear power has the lowest deaths/TWh of any mass energy production scheme. Gravitycollapse Apr 2014 #7
What you don't seem to care about... RobertEarl Apr 2014 #10
I guess you prefer today's Japan Union Scribe Apr 2014 #12
I feel better, yes RobertEarl Apr 2014 #14
Energy policy is way more complex than that. Conservation and load shifting are being used. Kolesar Apr 2014 #27
If the Government is serious about Global Warming what are they doing nationalize the fed Apr 2014 #18
Dangerous matter johnstyle Apr 2014 #26
There are several other melted cores that were quietly taken off line in the USA Kolesar Apr 2014 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author NuclearDem Apr 2014 #29
Eh? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author NuclearDem Apr 2014 #33
Three exploded RobertEarl Apr 2014 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author NuclearDem Apr 2014 #35
Good decision to delete your posts RobertEarl Apr 2014 #36
Whatever you say, Robert. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #37
You are finally learning, eh? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #38
This is hilarious. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #39
They still haven't said RobertEarl Apr 2014 #40
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