General Discussion

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)

148. When you ASSUME...

Thu Apr 10, 2014, 04:27 PM

Apr 2014

I have never met Snowden. I have no idea what kind of person he is. So you can stop with the assumptions that anyone who defends Snowdens position does so because they "love" him.

I defend his position because I believe what he says. It has nothing to do with who he is. Worse than that I believe that things are 3 times worse than anything he can tell you.
I grew up distrusting the government. With good reason. I came of age during Reagan, Panama, Grenada, Iran/Contra. I have been lied to so many times now I can't even count them. I have seen the cold war paranoia, the drug paranoia, the terrorist paranoia, I have seen the lengths my government is willing to go to to appease that paranoia. I have seen the bodies of innocent children, I have seen the torture pictures, I have seen the leaders of my country demand we bomb another nation because they might do something to someone at some point in the future.

Sorry, as much as I'd like to trust the NSA, the CIA, the DOD, the FBI, the Pentagon, I can't. Truth is I'd be a fucking idiot if I trusted any of them as far as I could throw them.

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Snowden to NSA: Go ahead, deny I tried to raise the alarm [View all] Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 OP

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ,,,,,,,,,,,, Cryptoad Apr 2014 #1

Still asleep at the wheel? Android3.14 Apr 2014 #9

dumb fascisthunter Apr 2014 #90

The NSA denies he made a formal complaint. If he has evidence that he did, why not publish that? msanthrope Apr 2014 #2

Show me the formal denial from the NSA Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #3

It's in the second paragraph of your OP. Snowden's responding to Rick Ledgett's TED msanthrope Apr 2014 #7

That's ted talk... NOT A FORMAL LETTER OF DEN Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #10

So why haven't his attorneys asked for that? Look...if Comrade Eddie is serious, then he makes msanthrope Apr 2014 #14

"Comrade" Eddie...?? elias49 Apr 2014 #20

No kidding hueymahl Apr 2014 #43

It is especially foolish--and a RW tactic that all liberals and Dems should tblue37 Apr 2014 #244

Yes, childish, it is also a dishonest, false implication that Snowden's original destination was sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #89

Your still promoting this lie? Sheepshank Apr 2014 #130

Revisionist. That traitor flew to Russia to get to Cuba. idendoit Apr 2014 #176

He's also a dirty Commie Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #184

... and boxes and pole dancer girl friend, and (tee hee) don't forget Gigi ... GoneFishin Apr 2014 #210

as if that red-baiting poster could be engaged in an honest discussion bobduca Apr 2014 #95

:::choke::: grasswire Apr 2014 #111

Most liberals have a civil liberation streak pipoman Apr 2014 #28

Indeed...and this liberal attorney despises those who think themselves above the msanthrope Apr 2014 #40

Why the Comrade Eddie? That sounds like such a juvenile name to call someone. Autumn Apr 2014 #48

He's an attorney Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #51

Joke right? Sounds like they may have been home sick on the day they talked Autumn Apr 2014 #57

If I respond I will have to bill one of my clients but Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #63

Is there a reason you are calling a female attorney a caveman? It's been msanthrope Apr 2014 #66

The reason is pretty clear. randome Apr 2014 #67

Damn straight...but watching the Snowdeniks lose their shit is msanthrope Apr 2014 #159

Maybe for the same reason you call Snowden "Comrade Eddy" LanternWaste Apr 2014 #154

Jumping in the name treestar Apr 2014 #158

You do realize that the TOS allows us to call public figures pretty much what we wish, but not other msanthrope Apr 2014 #162

Yes indeed. Your world frightens... and confuses me! Autumn Apr 2014 #68

'Not his fault'? randome Apr 2014 #70

Sure Putin can fly him to any country. Can he get in without a passport Autumn Apr 2014 #77

I'm sure the scores of countries offering him asylum would...oh. Wait. No one else wants him either. randome Apr 2014 #80

You bet there is a reason for that. Autumn Apr 2014 #82

Yikes! Bad hair day in court! Rex Apr 2014 #105

My username indicates my gender quite clearly. Why would you assume an attorney is male? msanthrope Apr 2014 #58

Funny Thing About Most Modern Day Attorneys... They Know A Lot About The Law... WillyT Apr 2014 #149

Authoritarians, apologists treestar Apr 2014 #156

And your point is what? You seem to be having trouble making one. Autumn Apr 2014 #160

That Eddie supporters crying about name calling can be hypocrites treestar Apr 2014 #243

The Snowdeniks, as you can tell from this thread, are struggling with cognitive dissonance. msanthrope Apr 2014 #165

Yes, and you know what happens even if he does face the consequences treestar Apr 2014 #242

Another day, another smear campaign hueymahl Apr 2014 #245

I get to call Libertarians juvenile names on Democratic Underground. It is a great joy, and a msanthrope Apr 2014 #168

I looked it up, it's not an insult or juvenile after all. My apologies to you. Autumn Apr 2014 #174

A fugitive of typical criminal law maybe, pipoman Apr 2014 #52

Fugitives always think their crimes place them in a category msanthrope Apr 2014 #56

I'm familiar with the case of Ira Einhorn also. I read the Time article on it, The Search for the Autumn Apr 2014 #75

sounds like bobduca Apr 2014 #99

It seems Arlen Specter was involved in the Ira Einhorn case Autumn Apr 2014 #107

"Fugitives always think their crimes place them in a category above the common rabble." bvar22 Apr 2014 #102

Yes--fugitives tend to think they are special. They always have a 'reason' msanthrope Apr 2014 #163

That is the funniest thing I've read in a while. bvar22 Apr 2014 #198

My thoughts to a T malokvale77 Apr 2014 #211

What was the charge? Are you honestly comparing your charges to felonies that msanthrope Apr 2014 #229

Right. And they're not above the common rabble. JoeyT Apr 2014 #173

So runaway slaves were cowards? And those who ran the underground railroad? Vattel Apr 2014 #164

You have made a fatal error in logic. You have presumed that slavery was lawful. And that is not msanthrope Apr 2014 #167

Thank you! bravenak Apr 2014 #192

It is painfully obvious Vattel Apr 2014 #199

Runaway slaves are not fugitives from any valid law. Snowden is. See the difference? msanthrope Apr 2014 #223

So now you change your claim from "fugitives are cowards," Vattel Apr 2014 #235

No... fugitives are cowards. runaway slaves weren't fugitives from any valid law. msanthrope Apr 2014 #240

I'll take up the defense hueymahl Apr 2014 #246

Holy shit. joshcryer Apr 2014 #220

Very offensive. bravenak Apr 2014 #193

see post 199 to appreciate the inoffensiveness of what I said Vattel Apr 2014 #201

I see. bravenak Apr 2014 #202

Because evidence that he DID complain ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #204

Dear msanthrope, NCTraveler Apr 2014 #139

Dear Comrade Eddie, msanthrope Apr 2014 #170

Besides ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #206

Absolutely. Even if he didn't follow the letter of the law, he gives his attorneys a powerful msanthrope Apr 2014 #224

You're moving goalposts with every additional reply... LanternWaste Apr 2014 #152

he wants NSA to prove that they didn't received formal complaints? Sheepshank Apr 2014 #127

And the clearer it becomes... randome Apr 2014 #136

Waiting for their denial before releasing his evidence seems like a good idea to me. GliderGuider Apr 2014 #4

They already denied it....as the OP stated. So now I guess he wants another denial? msanthrope Apr 2014 #5

'A FORMAL WRITTEN LETTER OF DENIAL Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #6

Well, that's goalpost moving! He gets a denial, plus public interviews by the NSA, and now he msanthrope Apr 2014 #11

What are you scared of? Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #13

Not a thing...certainly not a person who is cowardly enough to hide behind Putin, lest he face msanthrope Apr 2014 #16

Letters are so hard.. we have to attack him Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #23

Fugitives from the law don't get their demands met. If Comrade Eddie wants something, msanthrope Apr 2014 #26

A letter from the NSA denying Snowden's claim. Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #27

Indeed...the whole world is watching Snowden hide behind Putin. nt msanthrope Apr 2014 #42

If you are an attorney, I would never hire you. JimDandy Apr 2014 #76

Personally, Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #94

Thanks! I'll add those three to my reasons not to hire. JimDandy Apr 2014 #166

? Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #175

It's unlikely you could afford me. nt msanthrope Apr 2014 #228

You just reinforced my opinion. JimDandy Apr 2014 #230

You seem to think it would be your choice to hire me. You have msanthrope Apr 2014 #231

that comrade Eddie stuff is devastating by the way shaayecanaan Apr 2014 #29

I love the smell of authoritarian desperation... 99Forever Apr 2014 #47

Your tax dollars at work :NSA Apologia bobduca Apr 2014 #103

"Face the charges against him" pipoman Apr 2014 #32

So true. But many don't understand that.. elias49 Apr 2014 #49

Defend from afar? If demanding stuff through Vanity Fair is defending msanthrope Apr 2014 #50

Ever been to pro-vis at ADX? pipoman Apr 2014 #55

Did you go as an attorney, or something else? nt msanthrope Apr 2014 #65

Appointed by a Federal Judge pipoman Apr 2014 #72

So you'd understand if I decline to answer your question, since I'm not sure I can? I have msanthrope Apr 2014 #227

Ok. Prove that Saddam does not have WMDs Kolesar Apr 2014 #15

I raise a ... GeorgeGist Apr 2014 #200

WOW!!! REALLY!?!?! There needs to be a "letter" vs an official statement saying the same?!?!! uponit7771 Apr 2014 #86

Alberto Gonzales said he misspoke 5 times during his lies Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #87

Do you not get.. sendero Apr 2014 #8

Then why haven't his attorneys asked for that? You aren't making a logical argument.... msanthrope Apr 2014 #12

It would be trivial... sendero Apr 2014 #19

It would be trivial for Snowden to release the emails he claims to have. randome Apr 2014 #22

There's zero reason to believe that he has any emails at all. MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #33

Fugitives don't dictate who issues what...if Comrade Eddie wants something, he should msanthrope Apr 2014 #25

LOL MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #34

Mr Snowden has no power SwankyXomb Apr 2014 #194

I would think any lawyer would suggest he wait for a trial to disclose any evidence Autumn Apr 2014 #121

Really? OilemFirchen Apr 2014 #179

Is the NSA part of the judicial branch? Autumn Apr 2014 #182

No. The NSA reports to the DoD. OilemFirchen Apr 2014 #188

I don't think any attorneys are involved in this pissing match Autumn Apr 2014 #191

He was a SharePoint admin, not an email admin MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #30

Manny..this might be the most illogical defense offered...... msanthrope Apr 2014 #53

I think Manny knows the gig is up and just being snarky TOWARDS Snowden with that defense... uponit7771 Apr 2014 #81

Well...if Snowden's lost Manny it's all over but the crying. nt msanthrope Apr 2014 #92

Definitely possible MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #88

Come on Manny, we "know" it's possible but is it probable?!?! NO!! He had the skill sets to steal... uponit7771 Apr 2014 #93

If Snowden didn't or couldn't keep copies or prints of his own emails Sheepshank Apr 2014 #132

Only illogical to someone who apparently knows nothing about computer systems bobduca Apr 2014 #104

But Jane can make local copies of all the emails in her account. nt hack89 Apr 2014 #233

Hell, she could screen-scrape them! randome Apr 2014 #234

You're being sarcastic right? tia uponit7771 Apr 2014 #79

There is no trial so Snowden does not have to prove anything. Autumn Apr 2014 #120

amen uponit7771 Apr 2014 #78

If he showed you the evidence, I doubt you would accept it. You seem to already have rhett o rick Apr 2014 #171

Oh...I would definitely accept it! If he handed over a copy of a formal complaint he made with msanthrope Apr 2014 #172

The Albert Gonzales defense...'I misspoke'' 5 times to the Senate Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #178

It's easy enough to prove he didn't. joshcryer Apr 2014 #219

But. . .but. . .he's a traitor and a coward and needs to come back and face his trumped up Nanjing to Seoul Apr 2014 #17

And don't forget.... sendero Apr 2014 #21

He eats kittens. 840high Apr 2014 #91

YAWN B Calm Apr 2014 #18

wake up! bobduca Apr 2014 #97

Except Snowden's 'revelations' are on par with... randome Apr 2014 #98

without his "revelations" none of this would have been "known" bobduca Apr 2014 #101

Are you seriously saying that phone companies haven't had records Whisp Apr 2014 #109

That gif convinced me. bobduca Apr 2014 #115

Eddy needs some java: Whisp Apr 2014 #118

Snowden sure makes a lot of claims that he NEVER seems to show US.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #24

Crazy shit flies out, indeed MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #31

He's probably not crazy, just dirt stupid... tridim Apr 2014 #39

He's at least smart enough to elude the entire US Intelligence system, and then publicly Zorra Apr 2014 #126

Yes he is living the life of reilly as tech support in Russia.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #208

For every decent person, exposing evil to help others is worth sacrifice. Zorra Apr 2014 #212

So now phone metadata records are 'evil'? randome Apr 2014 #226

I suggest that you may want to consider the possibility that you are missing something very Zorra Apr 2014 #237

Are you saying international spying is 'evil'? randome Apr 2014 #239

I've been here way long enough to know better than to engage in one of your strawman Zorra Apr 2014 #241

Not what Snowden has said...no... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #44

He's a religion and his supporters are his flock. tridim Apr 2014 #38

How far off is Snowden Communion? With wafers and grape juice? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #45

Might be a good time to sell little Eddie statuettes on DU. Whisp Apr 2014 #110

With authentic rappelling gear! randome Apr 2014 #112

and when you pull the string on his back: Whisp Apr 2014 #117

I don't suppose any of you will get this Union Scribe Apr 2014 #217

Their civil war is starting though Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #222

that's exactly what he's saying Enrique Apr 2014 #41

HE should have his CYA.....he can't expect them to make his argument for him can he? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #46

he does have them with him Enrique Apr 2014 #61

they do? How come WE don't.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #64

everyone's telling Snowden what he should do Enrique Apr 2014 #69

Well he keeps talking and crazy shit flies out..... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #71

Ummm no.... people are wanting freaking evidence he's not a damn traitor hiding behind pooty poot uponit7771 Apr 2014 #84

People in this very thread have been caught lying more than Snowden has DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #205

Which hand does Comrade Eddie Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #35

Oh puke. More childish name calling elias49 Apr 2014 #54

Easy enough to fix....Snowden could actually produce this evidence... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #73

Revealing the New McCarthyites, another part of Snowden's legacy bobduca Apr 2014 #96

yes indeedy grasswire Apr 2014 #116

Former Republican? GeorgeGist Apr 2014 #203

Why would the NSA do anything Snowden wants?... SidDithers Apr 2014 #36

So, he has the emails yet does not release them. NCTraveler Apr 2014 #37

His 15 minutes are up brush Apr 2014 #60

Snowden is the 'MH370' of print journalism. randome Apr 2014 #62

snowden has released all the documents.. frylock Apr 2014 #124

Greenwald does get in on the act too though with "new revelations". nt brush Apr 2014 #147

amen uponit7771 Apr 2014 #85

it's called giving them enough rope to hang themselves.. frylock Apr 2014 #123

It's called not having what is needed to back your claim. NCTraveler Apr 2014 #135

another mind reader! grasswire Apr 2014 #141

Thread is full of them if you haven't noticed. NCTraveler Apr 2014 #142

the distinction, you may not have noticed... grasswire Apr 2014 #144

I don't think ANYONE has suggested we should trust the NSA. No one. randome Apr 2014 #146

You've implied for 8 months that they should be trusted. DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #207

funny, isn't it? grasswire Apr 2014 #209

I don't understand why this is so hard for some to grasp. randome Apr 2014 #221

"So you choose to believe the liars." NCTraveler Apr 2014 #236

his little buddy Pooty Poot.. frylock Apr 2014 #145

Sweet. Another put up or shut up moment for the... 99Forever Apr 2014 #59

and more blind faith for the supporters...AGAIN! VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #74

Rope a dope. nt. Rex Apr 2014 #83

Oh, if Snowden spoke to who he said he spoke to Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #100

snowden isn't publishing jack shit.. frylock Apr 2014 #125

That doesn't explain why he's kept the e-mail evidence Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #150

you don't play poker, do you? frylock Apr 2014 #151

Snowden has played this PERFECTLY. bvar22 Apr 2014 #106

I guess by extension the Russians have played this *more* PERFECTLY Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #108

Do you believe in Democracy? n/t HangOnKids Apr 2014 #113

Can you define 'democracy'? randome Apr 2014 #114

Ever heard of a dictionary? HangOnKids Apr 2014 #133

Sure... Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #153

how so? frylock Apr 2014 #128

it's kind of funny to watch grasswire Apr 2014 #119

They are transparent, and as laughably devoid of a cogent argument... bvar22 Apr 2014 #131

nobody is fooled grasswire Apr 2014 #138

They ARE the Creationists and Climate Change Deniers... 99Forever Apr 2014 #190

...a magnificent post. Union Scribe Apr 2014 #216

The fact so many want to lock him up for exposing NSA corruption is telling. Octafish Apr 2014 #122

Barry and the boys frylock Apr 2014 #129

Meanwhile, those who go along, get along. Octafish Apr 2014 #143

Who is Barry? nt msanthrope Apr 2014 #232

Barry Seal bobduca Apr 2014 #238

Don't worry, I'm sure that if Snowden releases absolute proof... SomethingFishy Apr 2014 #134

If Snowden shows proof that he attempted to use whistleblower channels... NCTraveler Apr 2014 #140

When you ASSUME... SomethingFishy Apr 2014 #148

The whistleblower channels BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #157

NSA: "well--why didn't you try to raise the alarm!?" (I know how these things go) MisterP Apr 2014 #137

I wonder what Snowden thinks of the Russian system rumdude Apr 2014 #155

WOW....not much different than the USA. bvar22 Apr 2014 #161

Nope, you are so wrong rumdude Apr 2014 #169

Unfortunately, as Americans we cannot influence the Russian political system. Maedhros Apr 2014 #180

The USA doesn't need to respond to confirmed traitors. idendoit Apr 2014 #177

confirmed? grasswire Apr 2014 #181

With his own words. idendoit Apr 2014 #195

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word. grasswire Apr 2014 #196

Do tell. 18 U.S. Code 2381 Treason. idendoit Apr 2014 #197

Nor confirmed Communists Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #185

As I re-re-re-reread this, OilemFirchen Apr 2014 #183

Yesterday it was the NSA 'absolutely' spied on Amnesty International. randome Apr 2014 #186

I'm ashamed to admit I didn't read any of that. OilemFirchen Apr 2014 #189

This is a good indication he's run out of juicy documents. DCBob Apr 2014 #214

to those that hate Snoden, I bet if he did this under Bush you would think of him as a hero politicman Apr 2014 #187

He wouldn't have done it under Bush. He's on Bush-Cheney's side and is carrying their water. ucrdem Apr 2014 #213

Obama opened himself up to the acions of Snowden by refusing to stop the NSA when he became Pres. politicman Apr 2014 #215

Refusing to stop the NSA from doing what? randome Apr 2014 #225

Snowden is on Bush Cheney's side? grasswire Apr 2014 #218