General Discussion

emulatorloo

(46,135 posts)

162. Yes, that analysis of tensions within the two parties is very accurate

Tue Dec 20, 2011, 01:52 PM

Dec 2011

It isn't "inside baseball" at all.

And I can see the usefulness of it as a way to look at what is currently happening with DU. DU is a coalition of leftists that seems to be splitting more and more each day.

However, the more I think about it, the more I think we are being divided because there is more noise that signal in the discussion these days.

I'm starting to rethink my earlier position that "if we are just talking about a handful of posters, then why are we belaboring it?"

I'm thinking that the handful of posters are poisoning the discourse in such a way that the two "sides" at DU have become so paranoid about the motives of everyone on the other "side".

So that the discussion at DU has become dysfunctional and toxic. Shallow and paranoid, more about accusations than about substance.

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So is every complaint about Obama wrong? Or some people just don't like to hear them? [View all] Logical Dec 2011 OP

The "Obama is for Wall St" is pure bullshit and based only on guilt by association banned from Kos Dec 2011 #1

+1...nt SidDithers Dec 2011 #3

He chose those associates. Union Scribe Dec 2011 #35

You ASSUME you know completely and totally EXACTLY why he chose as he did. You don't. patrice Dec 2011 #49

You reply to the wrong post? Union Scribe Dec 2011 #63

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #146

x3 This is getting mighty strange. nt tblue Dec 2011 #204

Not WHY he chose them, but THAT he chose them. Orsino Dec 2011 #149

Wait. Are people saying Obama didn't choose his advisors? tblue Dec 2011 #203

I love ya, man! nt Vanje Dec 2011 #241

Oh, I don't doubt that there were many favors owed... Orsino Dec 2011 #255

I get what you're saying. tblue Dec 2011 #256

Yeah. I'll give him this much credit... Orsino Dec 2011 #258

do you know why he chose them? frylock Dec 2011 #190

Sure he chose them - but not as a concession to Wall St banned from Kos Dec 2011 #51

They weren't just chosen for the Treasury Union Scribe Dec 2011 #66

Competence? Weren't a couple of them close to the blame for the mess we're in? GOTV Dec 2011 #103

...AND Senator Obama was one of those who promised that ... bvar22 Dec 2011 #135

Well, if you're gonna be picky! tblue Dec 2011 #208

It's BEYOND irritating when someone makes claims like tpsbmam Dec 2011 #232

Except that's not all. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #68

+1 Rex Dec 2011 #78

None of those people were responsible for the housing bubble. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #113

The people appointed to government were ideological kin to those in the private sector that caused DireStrike Dec 2011 #123

You have a point there regarding Summers. He is a free market liberal by nature. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #127

Wrong again. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #131

That had nothing to do with the housing bubble or mortgage crisis. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #136

Ummm...no. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #144

AIG repaid the "claims" as I said -- you are not careful with words (the goldman money that really banned from Kos Dec 2011 #155

Yes... FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #189

But the payment on that claim did not rescue Goldman - it rescued the largest insurer in the world banned from Kos Dec 2011 #195

You're right. The bailouts were the right thing. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #216

I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #129

Absolute nonsense. Gramm-Leach or Glass-Steagall did not regulate mortgages in the LEAST BIT. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #133

Wrong again. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #143

Wrong. We have been securitizing the vast majority of mortgages in the USA for 50 years. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #148

I really don't think you can read. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #188

one must be really ignorant to think G-L-B caused prices to skyrocket and not DEMAND. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #221

"I really don't think you can read" JLinTx Dec 2011 #231

OMG. Do you not knw the roles Summers and Rubin played in persuading Bill Clinton PA Democrat Dec 2011 #154

Wrong - Gramm-Leach had nothing to do with the housing bubble and mortgage crisis. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #169

The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act had EVERYTHING to do with the crisis. PA Democrat Dec 2011 #192

nonsense - right wing talk - new thread on this topic up (of mine) - banned from Kos Dec 2011 #198

So you start a new thread and mischaracterize what other posters have said. PA Democrat Dec 2011 #201

No - the new thread is more germane - Govt bureacrats vs Ayn Rand free markets? banned from Kos Dec 2011 #206

No. He just calls something "right wing talking points" and... FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #254

Are you kidding me? FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #253

Amen JLinTx Dec 2011 #230

Well said! ozone_man Dec 2011 #235

Fucking Salazar! Vanje Dec 2011 #243

well said jkent26943xs Dec 2011 #77

Yep. THIS is ALL just a BIG coincidence! bvar22 Dec 2011 #139

Wow! AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #147

VERY well said Wilmer Dec 2011 #150

His pro-wall street actions seem to render your argument moot. comipinko Dec 2011 #140

not bs at all. It's the freakin' truth Roland99 Dec 2011 #166

Yeah, it's bullshit vi5 Dec 2011 #180

He should be judged by his actions. He appointed conservatives like Jeff Immelt. He has prosecuted rhett o rick Dec 2011 #215

Hey, Obama stated way back when that he should be called out. Damn, there are many things that I teddy51 Dec 2011 #2

one cannot investigate a previous administration for things one is doing oneself. nt msongs Dec 2011 #5

10/4 and noted. n/t teddy51 Dec 2011 #7

all of which he never once gave the slightest hint he would do while campaigning. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #8

Yes. And now it is OWS. treestar Dec 2011 #16

OWS supports equal rights for all. No Rick Warren, no McClurkin they are not Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #89

DADT repeal - ending defense of marriage act enforcement by the Justice Dept (N/T) DWilliamsamh Dec 2011 #122

for some people, there will never be anything he could do to make up for the mcclurkin\warren thing, dionysus Dec 2011 #234

Well that's is their prerogative ... but it seems silly DWilliamsamh Dec 2011 #248

i agree. dionysus Dec 2011 #249

Once I go to print with it nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #177

yeah, he didn't campaign on it so STFU paulk Dec 2011 #119

YES! Look for declarative statements! bvar22 Dec 2011 #151

From the archives, for some objective examination... BeHereNow Dec 2011 #174

Picking on Obama is, like, totally gonna bum-out the pep-rally... so like STFU already... (+/-) LooseWilly Dec 2011 #4

I could go into the psychology of it nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #6

Thanks! Interesting. Logical Dec 2011 #9

Meanwhile others look at a Rorschach Test and see a Matisse banned from Kos Dec 2011 #10

Except this is well known in political science nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #18

yeah - I see that with Alan Grayson fans a lot. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #22

WHOOSH nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #27

Is it Bernie then? Who do you merely admire? banned from Kos Dec 2011 #31

Again I could recommend a book nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #33

You posed this psychology because you wanted to imply that Obama supporters denied his banned from Kos Dec 2011 #43

No, it is a poltical science REALITY nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #46

It is reality but so is false projection. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #52

Again I was answering the OP nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #54

OK - good enough. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #61

Nadin ate your dinner Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #94

Only if you like logical fallacies - apparently you do. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #102

Alas it has nothing to do with who you like nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #145

Nice, way to keep from the obvious Rex Dec 2011 #79

In fact, here is a very recent study nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #41

Politicians understand the psychology well gyroscope Dec 2011 #21

To a few experts nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #29

And to some people it's about a very needful, but inherently flawed, thing called Knowledge. nt patrice Dec 2011 #50

I guess getting it at a poltical science level is my defect nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #55

Yes Dean wrote some good stuff about this mindset within the RW, the neo-libs are similar /nt Dragonfli Dec 2011 #222

John Dean collated a lot of academic work into that book nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #224

I love out of control military spending and the specter of indefinite detention. no complaints here think Dec 2011 #11

lol Matariki Dec 2011 #12

LMAO!!n/t zeljko67 Dec 2011 #38

That's sure the reason why I volunteered 30 hours a week for 2 months. tblue Dec 2011 #212

Many complaints about Obama are correct,just exaggerated. athenasatanjesus Dec 2011 #13

Well, I agree some are exaggerated, but even the accurate ones are 100% defended by many. n-t Logical Dec 2011 #19

many? or few with several usernames? Skittles Dec 2011 #73

All of the above, probably, and criticism is ok with me bhikkhu Dec 2011 #14

I hope you recant your positions with regard to the NDAA when found to be incorrect!N/T zeljko67 Dec 2011 #39

Is every complaint right? treestar Dec 2011 #15

Because this is a discussion forum. That is what it is here for! n-t Logical Dec 2011 #17

Then that goes both ways. treestar Dec 2011 #24

In fact,l the candidate constantly complaining about 'Sanctity' is going to create Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #96

Okay, I'll play. Tx4obama Dec 2011 #20

+ spanone Dec 2011 #23

Oh, believe me, I have seen your list! We all have. Many times! Logical Dec 2011 #25

Just remember that there are MANY different LISTS floating around on DU, they're not all the same Tx4obama Dec 2011 #37

+++++++++++ Good job. I'm thinking the same things. See below, please. patrice Dec 2011 #53

You are cute, Tx4Obama! tblue Dec 2011 #213

Why the defensiveness? CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #26

You think you already know all. Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #100

Why lie? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #106

Except for the FACT that he does not support Gay Marriage. comipinko Dec 2011 #138

Has he actively tried to roll back Gay Marriage in Iowa? emulatorloo Dec 2011 #167

He has ACTIVELY defined "marriage" . His definition does just that. comipinko Dec 2011 #171

The Republicans in Iowa are actively trying to end marriage equality emulatorloo Dec 2011 #173

Thing is, I do not believe that he holds that position, yet he continues to voice it. comipinko Dec 2011 #175

You may well be right about the political motives emulatorloo Dec 2011 #178

Hmmmmf. lonestarnot Dec 2011 #28

When election time rolls around, and it is basically that time... BootinUp Dec 2011 #30

Its been this way from day one quakerboy Dec 2011 #75

It's not limited to criticism of Obama hootinholler Dec 2011 #32

In all seriousness I will tell you where they are the same... nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #34

Obama should not be swarmed...on the DU. applegrove Dec 2011 #36

Devil's advocate nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #44

I agree that constructive criticism should be allowed. But calling Obama supporters 'Obama applegrove Dec 2011 #45

How many supporters are indeed defenders nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #48

Regarding 'real life' please see link below Tx4obama Dec 2011 #57

Yeah and... you think that there is not a small time revolt and dissatisfaction? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #60

If it is a "few," then why are we going round and round emulatorloo Dec 2011 #62

Actually, again poli sci or history... I will slighty differ from you in core values nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #65

Yes, that analysis of tensions within the two parties is very accurate emulatorloo Dec 2011 #162

While not inside baseball, actually most people do not know it. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #170

Ha ha, silly season! emulatorloo Dec 2011 #193

Ok, then please what term should we use? hootinholler Dec 2011 #59

"Defenders" is so passe'. I believe you have now been deemed to be an "apologist". 11 Bravo Dec 2011 #90

Apologist is so DU2 n/t hootinholler Dec 2011 #228

Not every complaint is wrong...... FrenchieCat Dec 2011 #40

Right on, Frenchie. Thanks for mentioning 2010. That's EXACTLY what happened. I heard plenty of call patrice Dec 2011 #56

I would make a polite request quakerboy Dec 2011 #76

+1 dawg Dec 2011 #97

After thinking on this, it is a request I plan to repeat quakerboy Dec 2011 #179

I second that request Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #104

Here's one..... FrenchieCat Dec 2011 #181

Good post, FrenchieCat. If I could recommend yr post, I would. emulatorloo Dec 2011 #194

Fair enough. quakerboy Dec 2011 #197

You say...."most likely republican challengers are all 0%" FrenchieCat Dec 2011 #205

We agree on one thing quakerboy Dec 2011 #257

You are wrong that many have complained since innauguration. It started before then. styersc Dec 2011 #105

+100 Myrina Dec 2011 #112

NAILED IT! bvar22 Dec 2011 #157

Why ProSense Dec 2011 #42

Would it be too much to ask quakerboy Dec 2011 #183

Well, ProSense Dec 2011 #191

If a thread is about the list quakerboy Dec 2011 #200

You're right.A post about indefinite detention should not be met with a list of other stuff. patrice Dec 2011 #47

The problem for me is the lack of context and/or hyperbole. boxman15 Dec 2011 #58

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #64

Hmmm? ProSense Dec 2011 #67

Wow, really??? Tx4obama Dec 2011 #69

I didn't say everyone, I said some people DesMoinesDem Dec 2011 #70

I also find my p.s. amusing b/c there are NO DUers that get paid to post lists about Obama here ;) Tx4obama Dec 2011 #71

From ProSense Dec 2011 #72

This one actually has a logical origin nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #74

It seems like both sides in this little internecine spat feel like they are the only aggrieved ones. Pholus Dec 2011 #82

You are correct nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #137

It just seems suspicious that a few posters, whom I won't name, haven't ever found one scintilla of totodeinhere Dec 2011 #165

Why pay a prostitute when a person of loose morals will do you for free? Dragonfli Dec 2011 #225

What do you think? Rex Dec 2011 #80

Agreed. And I think those people are a minority at DU emulatorloo Dec 2011 #125

Hey Logical.. You know that you've set up a false dichotomy, right? Orrex Dec 2011 #81

No but "Is every praise for Obama wrong? Or some people just don't like to hear them?" pampango Dec 2011 #83

I, for one, like Obama and really like all liberal/progressive things he has done: indepat Dec 2011 #185

I posted this on another thread, this topic...my 2 cents... Scuba Dec 2011 #84

And after the last reply has been posted, you can append "I rest my case!" nt aka-chmeee Dec 2011 #85

We elected Obama quaker bill Dec 2011 #86

Those who demand 100% agreement do so for their own jollies as such a stance does Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #87

SMH Mr Dixon Dec 2011 #88

Why one or the other? Some complaints I disagree with, others I agree with. ehrnst Dec 2011 #91

So, every complaint about Obama is accurate?... SidDithers Dec 2011 #92

Is that really what you got from that post, Sid? Really? Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #111

Again?... SidDithers Dec 2011 #158

Election year. It will be difficult in some instances mmonk Dec 2011 #93

Criticisms are one thing. JNelson6563 Dec 2011 #95

Obama came in to a mess madokie Dec 2011 #98

I have the opposite impression: Is any credit given to Obama wrong? K8-EEE Dec 2011 #99

Let's parse this dmallind Dec 2011 #101

HERO WORSHIPPER! banned from Kos Dec 2011 #107

Damn you for belittling my adoration of the man-God Obama, may he reign for a thousand years! nt dmallind Dec 2011 #110

Good post! nt Bobbie Jo Dec 2011 #109

Great response. JoePhilly Dec 2011 #118

Excellent analysis. Thanks for taking the time to post it emulatorloo Dec 2011 #126

You win. great white snark Dec 2011 #168

No more and no less than... LanternWaste Dec 2011 #108

They all need "called out." dotymed Dec 2011 #114

Of course not, but there are several on DU who always blast Obama and NEVER WI_DEM Dec 2011 #115

Agree. JoePhilly Dec 2011 #117

I personally feel that hes done alot right and alot wrong.... CarrieLynne Dec 2011 #116

I agree and disagree. DWilliamsamh Dec 2011 #120

What is the effect of the relentless Obama criticisim on potentially new DU members? JoePhilly Dec 2011 #121

If that is the case it isn't a good thing. Puglover Dec 2011 #124

Could not agree more. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #141

Exactly krucial Dec 2011 #156

Simple question for you ... JoePhilly Dec 2011 #176

Your premise is typically that of a partisan. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #186

The premise that Dems get trashed on DU ... JoePhilly Dec 2011 #220

OFA is a good place for that. tblue Dec 2011 #211

DU is also supposed to be a good place for that .... JoePhilly Dec 2011 #223

Yes, that's why it says. tblue Dec 2011 #226

How many straw-men did you pack into that post ... let's count them. JoePhilly Dec 2011 #227

I guess if you want to be pissy for the next 5 years, that is your right. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #128

It is the reponsibility of the people in a democracy to hold public servants accountable. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #130

No Bad things must be said. krucial Dec 2011 #132

We did know the truth about Iraq. NOLALady Dec 2011 #152

I don't mind substantive criticism. redqueen Dec 2011 #134

+10000000 n.t one_voice Dec 2011 #159

What I personally do not like is when posters on a BlueMTexpat Dec 2011 #142

+1,000,000 NOLALady Dec 2011 #153

You must be a big old hater. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #160

It's amazing that binary thinkers want to force shades-of-grey thinkers on a discussion brd to STFU AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #161

kind of like .. "your either with us or your with the terrorists" Jim_Shorts Dec 2011 #164

I think I am going to be sick....in any case I need a long shower.. ooglymoogly Dec 2011 #163

A while back, Sabrina1 shared some sage advice: Try to separate the action from the person. gateley Dec 2011 #172

"He represents every citizen in the country, not just liberals" FiveGoodMen Dec 2011 #187

Gee, really? He doesn't have to carry out the wishes of evil people? gateley Dec 2011 #202

You're saying that we're right but we shouldn't get our way. FiveGoodMen Dec 2011 #207

Sigh. You try to make it so cut and dried and it isn't that way at all. For example, gateley Dec 2011 #214

But the issues that Obama gets the real heat for are exactly the 'no-wiggle-room' ones FiveGoodMen Dec 2011 #237

Believe me, I agree with you on all these examples but I also acknowledge that unless gateley Dec 2011 #252

K&R (n/t) a2liberal Dec 2011 #182

Complaining about Obama is perfectly fine. baldguy Dec 2011 #184

It's because of the over the top and inaccurate info being dispelled as truth Capn Sunshine Dec 2011 #196

You can count on the same posters.... Wind Dancer Dec 2011 #199

It frightens me. tblue Dec 2011 #210

I will have to admit PatrynXX Dec 2011 #219

Well thank you! Wind Dancer Dec 2011 #229

Dear Logical, tblue Dec 2011 #209

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #217

I would hope not PatrynXX Dec 2011 #218

no one thinks he's perfect. maybe the "defenders" (i see this talking point has spread quickly) are dionysus Dec 2011 #233

Does Obama support working people .....? lib2DaBone Dec 2011 #236

On what planet do you spend most of your time? RBInMaine Dec 2011 #240

Obama did send 33,000 new troops to Afghanistan... lib2DaBone Dec 2011 #238

This is DEMOCRATIC Underground, not BITCH ABOUT OBAMA UNDERGROUND. We are here to DEFEAT the RBInMaine Dec 2011 #239

"We are here to DEFEAT the Republicans" FiveGoodMen Dec 2011 #242

Hyperbolic nonsense from the leftwing version of the TeaNut Party. RBInMaine Dec 2011 #246

Underwhelmed by our capitulating, No hope , No change, not very liberal president. Vanje Dec 2011 #244

I heartily recommend this 100%. pacalo Dec 2011 #245

No but some are wrong and some are overly simplistic Prophet 451 Dec 2011 #247

The specter of submiting Americans to extraordinary rendition in a country defined Ferret Annica Dec 2011 #250

That's why I love the ignore function Marrah_G Dec 2011 #251