General Discussion

DanTex

(20,709 posts)

301. Sure. Here's the "but, but, Chicago!" NRA talking point.

Sun Apr 13, 2014, 10:26 AM

Apr 2014

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024811648#post118

Beyond that, that this OP is full of gungeoneers pushing hard for the Scalia interpretation of the constitution, which, as Stevens and Burger point out, is the product of a concerted NRA/right-wing effort to push a political agenda through the courts.

Yes, 130 recs is enough evidence that this is a worthy OP. It means that a lot of DUers found this important and informative. And it is important: a former liberal SCOTUS justice discussing how the bill of rights has been distorted for political ends.

I guess you disagree. If so, there's something you can do about it: alert. But instead you choose to whine.

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Justice Stevens Scolds NRA & Suggests: The five extra words that can fix the Second Amendment [View all] kpete Apr 2014 OP

Well if that was the intent Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #1

Context WovenGems Apr 2014 #10

and we can differ in opinion Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #14

The second WovenGems Apr 2014 #19

I disagree. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #171

Actually it comes from the nobility only being allowed to bear arms shanemcg Apr 2014 #300

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #326

Whether or not it is an individual right is not the question. DanTex Apr 2014 #32

which 3/4 americans agree with bossy22 Apr 2014 #35

Yes, and more than half of Americans thing creationism should be taught in schools. DanTex Apr 2014 #37

Sometimes they are- that is true bossy22 Apr 2014 #44

And part of that evidence awoke_in_2003 Apr 2014 #98

What exactly do you think we are #1 at? Sure isn't gun deaths by a long shot. n/t EX500rider Apr 2014 #195

I should have put the words "civilized world" in there... awoke_in_2003 Apr 2014 #207

Is South America part of the discussion? hack89 Apr 2014 #212

Actually there are over 100 countries with a higher homicide rate then the US. EX500rider Apr 2014 #225

So by civilized what exactly do you mean? AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #264

Is that the latest ruling from the Department of Ultimate Truth? Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #68

The Department of Would-Be Political Officers, actually... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #205

70%, mostly mislead jimmy the one Apr 2014 #63

based entirely and only on the testimony of the federal government pipoman Apr 2014 #302

and you would be wrong Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #38

Both the president and the Democratic party platform call it an individual right. hack89 Apr 2014 #69

They also both called for an assault weapons ban. Still stand with them? DanTex Apr 2014 #75

And there I was thinking the president was a man of principals hack89 Apr 2014 #77

I noticed that you didn't answer the question about the AWB. DanTex Apr 2014 #80

" Ineffective feel good security theater" hack89 Apr 2014 #83

So you don't actually agree with the president on guns. DanTex Apr 2014 #86

Only if you consider the most expansive view of civil liberties a RW point of view hack89 Apr 2014 #100

Well "expansive" and "progressive" are not the same thing. DanTex Apr 2014 #103

ok nt hack89 Apr 2014 #105

Just curious here... Moostache Apr 2014 #161

Car registration is for tax purposes, not public safety hack89 Apr 2014 #165

Cars do not have to be Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #166

I'll stipulate up until the point you carry that weapon onto public land. Moostache Apr 2014 #168

Required insurance!!!! That is brilliant and makes perfect sense. Which means the NRA will smother Dark n Stormy Knight Apr 2014 #193

The NRA would love it- they're the biggest seller of gun insurance in the US friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #204

Whaddaya got against the NRA? Dark n Stormy Knight Apr 2014 #277

Great idea tolkien90 Apr 2014 #268

I do not feel like pointlessly arguing against NRA talking points beyond this: Moostache Apr 2014 #311

. tolkien90 Apr 2014 #321

This line of arguing always gets me Scootaloo Apr 2014 #135

Does the bill of rights limit rights? X_Digger Apr 2014 #116

There are limits to the rights that the BoR protects, yes. DanTex Apr 2014 #119

That's not what I asked. Does the BoR limit rights? Simple yes or no will suffice. X_Digger Apr 2014 #121

Don't be silly with this "yes or no" game. Your question is nonsensical and irrelevant wordplay. DanTex Apr 2014 #122

That's a lovely straw man. Nobody said the rights protected by the BoR were unlimited. X_Digger Apr 2014 #126

Should I answer for the third time? DanTex Apr 2014 #128

That's the closest you've actually came to answering. X_Digger Apr 2014 #132

The whole issue of rights "pre-dating" the constitution is pretty silly. DanTex Apr 2014 #139

That's the base philosophy of our system of government. X_Digger Apr 2014 #147

Talking about the "existence" of rights in some metaphysical plane is basically nonsensical. DanTex Apr 2014 #153

Lol, and you accuse *me* of playing semantics?!? X_Digger Apr 2014 #154

I see that you're avoiding giving any definition of an "existence" of a right. DanTex Apr 2014 #159

"what it even means for a right to "exist" -- is irrelevant" X_Digger Apr 2014 #164

So you can't even define what you are talking about. DanTex Apr 2014 #167

That I refuse to do your homework for you in no way limits my knowledge. X_Digger Apr 2014 #170

LOL. Dodge. DanTex Apr 2014 #173

*pat* *pat* *pat* You sure told me. X_Digger Apr 2014 #175

Always a good time! DanTex Apr 2014 #177

I doubt he is krispos42 Apr 2014 #286

You think the intent was that anyone could carry a gun anywhere at any time?? nt Logical Apr 2014 #59

No Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #155

Jesus fucking christ. stg81 Apr 2014 #97

OK Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #157

Wouldn't that be masturbation? Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #169

That was their intent. TransitJohn Apr 2014 #163

That's what I just said. ErikJ Apr 2014 #216

There was no standing army then. Just militia until 1812. ErikJ Apr 2014 #215

sure it is Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #217

They answer to the NRA ErikJ Apr 2014 #221

or a majority of the people Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #226

To a degree yes ErikJ Apr 2014 #231

Using pretzel logic then MyNameGoesHere Apr 2014 #266

Which is a more practical solution? Loudly Apr 2014 #2

Which of the other Bill of Rights do you think is "pretend"? former9thward Apr 2014 #53

None of the others is being willfully misinterpreted to deny Americans Loudly Apr 2014 #64

Did you post that from inside a properly designated "Free Speech Zone"? Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #70

That sounds distinctly like a complaint from supporters of Bundy the Trespasser. Loudly Apr 2014 #79

Actually, the FSZs were first used against progressives. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #87

Here. This is for you. Happy Saturday. Loudly Apr 2014 #91

So I guess that means you accept full moral responsibility for Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #99

Poor Otis McDonald died last week. Loudly Apr 2014 #111

And you feel compelled to not have guns to protect yourself from criminals with guns. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #117

The gun or guns which Otis had Loudly Apr 2014 #123

And? Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #137

Doesn't Chicago have some pretty strict gun control laws? n/t YarnAddict Apr 2014 #102

It's surrounded by the rest of a lunatic nation however. Loudly Apr 2014 #108

How come the "rest of a lunatic nation" does not have the crime rate Chicago has? former9thward Apr 2014 #118

I can't even find Chicago on this list, actually. Loudly Apr 2014 #130

I don't know who did your list ... former9thward Apr 2014 #133

NYC has a remarkably low murder rate given the population density. DanTex Apr 2014 #145

New York has a homicide rate more than four times that of New Hampshire tolkien90 Apr 2014 #269

Apples and oranges. NH is not a dense super-metropolis. Europe destroys your case. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #278

Historically, the US has always had a higher murder rate than the UK tolkien90 Apr 2014 #322

Money as free speach quakerboy Apr 2014 #255

It's being "properly interpreted" now. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #174

You and your fellow "originalists" are not serving the nation well. Loudly Apr 2014 #181

I'm sure you genuinely believe that's the case. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #184

Here. This is for you. Did these people have rights? Loudly Apr 2014 #185

Oh, look: an anecdote! Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #186

I've got a couple dozen such "anectodes" from last night alone. Loudly Apr 2014 #187

This message was self-deleted by its author tolkien90 Apr 2014 #270

And again, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." nt Bazinga Apr 2014 #280

I think you're wrong, and absurdly so. Loudly Apr 2014 #291

1791-era guns ... JEFF9K Apr 2014 #3

Are quill pens what the First Amendment refers to? badtoworse Apr 2014 #5

Get back to me when a laser printer kills or wounds someone. Loudly Apr 2014 #120

LOL. Read Heller and McDonald and get back to us. badtoworse Apr 2014 #140

Yeah. And raise you a Citizens United. Loudly Apr 2014 #142

Your response smacks of sour grapes. badtoworse Apr 2014 #144

Except Dred Scott and Plessy are in the dustbin now. Loudly Apr 2014 #149

same with speech Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #6

I'm confused. enlightenment Apr 2014 #12

as a living document interpreted by the courts Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #17

Thank you. enlightenment Apr 2014 #25

nice to have civil discussion Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #94

Maybe Amendments should be re-visited ... JEFF9K Apr 2014 #180

I'll get to your question when the ink dries. Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #31

Well, there ya have it... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #4

Best answer. marble falls Apr 2014 #7

Your Constitution apparently has been edited. former9thward Apr 2014 #56

limitation on congress jimmy the one Apr 2014 #67

The BoR "grants" no rights. X_Digger Apr 2014 #125

wm rawle knows more about it than x-digger jimmy the one Apr 2014 #143

"as well as granting people ... the individual right to belong to a militia" X_Digger Apr 2014 #151

Pretty broad condemnation on the face of a lack of evidence.I assure you, the Bill of Rights is ... marble falls Apr 2014 #96

Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #124

That's downright dispicable. Shame on you. marble falls Apr 2014 #129

Repeating your own quotes? former9thward Apr 2014 #134

The quotes stand. My rights are not to abridge anyone else's. Its the mass murderer crack..... marble falls Apr 2014 #138

When someone tries to take away Constitutional rights I always say it to their faces. former9thward Apr 2014 #141

What Consitutional abridgment do you think I promote? marble falls Apr 2014 #148

Jury results on the hidden post... stevenleser Apr 2014 #146

If the slaves had 2A rights would they have remained slaves? Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #74

That's kinda the point... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #88

Wasn't the 2A in response to possible slave uprisings? KansDem Apr 2014 #109

If that were true, then why did northern, non-slave-owning states also pass state versions? X_Digger Apr 2014 #127

Good question KansDem Apr 2014 #158

The northern states versions are often even more explicit.. X_Digger Apr 2014 #162

I don't know about that specifically... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #152

Good observation! KansDem Apr 2014 #160

Yip, the state militias were for rounding up runaway slaves wink-wink nt UTUSN Apr 2014 #240

That's a moot point because WE WEREN'T EVEN CONSIDERED TO BE HUMAN BEINGS... Ecumenist Apr 2014 #276

The 3/5 compromise was an abolitionist construct. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #279

He's overlooking what he says. Igel Apr 2014 #8

Excellently stated, friend. nt appal_jack Apr 2014 #60

And here we go again Lurks Often Apr 2014 #9

Correct... Hip_Flask Apr 2014 #11

Actually, only the right-wing justices believed that 2A applies outside of militia service. DanTex Apr 2014 #18

Whether it's an individual right or not is not at issue. Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #21

Nonsense Lurks Often Apr 2014 #72

Even Scalia says in Heller that guns can be regulated hack89 Apr 2014 #76

"EIGHT of the judges agreed that the 2nd Amendment was an Individual right" Major Nikon Apr 2014 #73

Might want to work on your reading comprehension Lurks Often Apr 2014 #82

Pot/Kettle Major Nikon Apr 2014 #89

I find the paragraph from the Heller decision that I cited Lurks Often Apr 2014 #198

And I didn't contradict it, so why you keep repeating this is anyone's guess Major Nikon Apr 2014 #237

That was Stevens dissenting opinion Lurks Often Apr 2014 #238

Which is kinda why it's called a dissent in the first place Major Nikon Apr 2014 #239

You keep thinking that if it makes you feel better Lurks Often Apr 2014 #241

So if you carve out the heart of the Democratic Party, gun control is a "loser" Major Nikon Apr 2014 #242

You're entitled to your opinion Lurks Often Apr 2014 #259

The Civil Rights Act was very costly for Democrats Major Nikon Apr 2014 #260

Again, whether it is individual isn't the key question. DanTex Apr 2014 #95

lurks often misleads jimmy the one Apr 2014 #84

Those 5 words don't "fix" the 2nd Amendment YarnAddict Apr 2014 #13

Yeah, the preamble pretty much sets the tone.. X_Digger Apr 2014 #131

He sounds like he is arguing from a conservative standpoint marshall Apr 2014 #15

exactly bossy22 Apr 2014 #22

Not at all. First of all, there is nothing remotely progressive about revising the second amendment DanTex Apr 2014 #24

kind of like reinterpreting the constitution to end segregation? bossy22 Apr 2014 #29

More like re-interpreting the first amendment to include money as free speech. DanTex Apr 2014 #36

You keep claiming the individual rights view of the 2A was created by the modern right wing bossy22 Apr 2014 #40

That's because it's true. If you read the Stevens article, or further read his dissent in Heller, DanTex Apr 2014 #46

Steven's article isn't the holy bible on this subject bossy22 Apr 2014 #50

Neither is wikipedia. DanTex Apr 2014 #52

wikipedia atleast has citations bossy22 Apr 2014 #58

WaPo editorials don't usually include citations. His dissent in Heller has citations. DanTex Apr 2014 #62

again, what evidence do you have of that? bossy22 Apr 2014 #66

There's plenty of historical evidence that 2A was designed to protecting militias. DanTex Apr 2014 #71

How do you explain all the contemporary state constitutions hack89 Apr 2014 #81

What's there to explain? DanTex Apr 2014 #85

Except the same people who wrote the federal constitution wrote the state constitutions hack89 Apr 2014 #92

That's quite a bizarre claim. DanTex Apr 2014 #101

So do you accept state constitutions that recognize an individual right? hack89 Apr 2014 #104

Before Heller, yes, the federal government could impose laws that impinged on the right to DanTex Apr 2014 #106

Your logic is convoluted hack89 Apr 2014 #112

Not at all. You are essentially arguing that there should be no difference at all between DanTex Apr 2014 #115

Ok. Nt hack89 Apr 2014 #150

early quotes supporting individual rkba, hahahahaha jimmy the one Apr 2014 #114

You can reinterpret all of it Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #42

I'm talking about Stevens's argument, not Scalia's marshall Apr 2014 #43

I know. And there's nothing conservative or hypocritical about it. DanTex Apr 2014 #51

So the amendment protects my right to have a weapon while in military service? bossy22 Apr 2014 #16

Yes. That's exactly the point of it. DanTex Apr 2014 #20

that's not what he saysng bossy22 Apr 2014 #26

What he is saying is that it protect states from having their militias disarmed by the federal DanTex Apr 2014 #28

explain Nunn V Georgia then bossy22 Apr 2014 #30

Looks like that was a state court decision. DanTex Apr 2014 #54

but wouldn't this mean that the individual rights interpretation pre-dated the modern right wing? bossy22 Apr 2014 #61

For the third time now... DanTex Apr 2014 #65

It is illogical now, but it was not illogical at the time it was written Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #41

Thank you, Justice Stevens, for that dose of historical reality. (nt) Paladin Apr 2014 #23

Well, without the right-wing judicial activism, this wouldn't be necessary. DanTex Apr 2014 #27

Here we go again. IronGate Apr 2014 #33

Ri-i-i-ght here in GD. Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #45

Which I thought was a no-no. IronGate Apr 2014 #48

IMO, there has been a concerted effort within the anti-gun Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #107

Funny, the gungeoneers don't seem to care much about the "no whining about DU" part of the TOS... DanTex Apr 2014 #288

Would you like a list self-defense actions? In GD? Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #293

I am for that Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #295

Well, judging from recs, the DU community at large thinks this is a worthy OP. DanTex Apr 2014 #296

quit whining Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #294

Umm, yes, they are whining. DanTex Apr 2014 #297

can you post a link Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #298

Sure. Here's the "but, but, Chicago!" NRA talking point. DanTex Apr 2014 #301

I see you fail to understand Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #303

I see. So instead of alerting, you prefer to just whine. DanTex Apr 2014 #304

Please post a link so I can check it out Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #306

Don't be modest! You don't need any help getting the NRA talking points right. You're a master! DanTex Apr 2014 #307

so there is no list Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #308

I don't particularly care about finding the "master list". DanTex Apr 2014 #309

I am just curious Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #310

I know them by the frequency that they are repeated. DanTex Apr 2014 #312

so you make up the list not the NRA Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #314

Umm, no, I certainly didn't make up the list. I simply observe. DanTex Apr 2014 #315

OK Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #318

Well, I currently live in NYC. DanTex Apr 2014 #319

I agree with you on NYC Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #320

Here you go, talking points Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #305

Some animals are more equal than others. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #172

If only those five words could fix our fucked up corporate and MIC owned government. L0oniX Apr 2014 #34

How is this "BigNews" and not just typical Gungeon discussion? NightWatcher Apr 2014 #39

Evidently, special dispensation is accorded to anti-gun views. Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #49

Oh, heaven forfend! Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #176

Apparently, five words have been added to the GD SOP. appal_jack Apr 2014 #57

Uhhh, no. geckosfeet Apr 2014 #47

What about the whole bothersome part about COLGATE4 Apr 2014 #55

You're bringing that nonsense out again? Lurks Often Apr 2014 #78

The whole prefatory phrase was intended COLGATE4 Apr 2014 #178

Most adult males are already in the militia Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #179

Really? COLGATE4 Apr 2014 #182

Really, as per U. S. Code 311 Jgarrick Apr 2014 #190

Not the old 'unorganized militia' chestnut again. COLGATE4 Apr 2014 #202

It's black-letter law, and fairly straightforward friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #206

I agree it is sexist Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #208

Too bad the President disagrees with you Lurks Often Apr 2014 #197

The President also said that he doesn't believe COLGATE4 Apr 2014 #200

Why bothersome? States are required to provide for defense. Required in geckosfeet Apr 2014 #209

It's an individual right JJChambers Apr 2014 #90

No fix. Fight would shift to meaning of militia and private militias would fester all over. nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #93

I was thinking the worst of the gun nuts intheflow Apr 2014 #274

So our founding fathers would think its OK to go into people's homes and take their firearms? davidn3600 Apr 2014 #110

Not without due process. Not without the protection of law. marble falls Apr 2014 #136

Excellent Post!!! SevenSixtyTwo Apr 2014 #156

So Hamilton said that those who are not peaceable citizens have no right to bear arms n/t eridani Apr 2014 #275

People who use guns in a crime shouldn't own a gun...even the NRA agrees with that davidn3600 Apr 2014 #283

Right or no right. It doesn't matter. We have the right now and it isn't helping. gtar100 Apr 2014 #113

This is off-topic for GD. If the goal is a discussion of this subject, post it in the Gungeon. Jgarrick Apr 2014 #183

Why is it that gungeoneers get so upset about threads like these in GD? DanTex Apr 2014 #191

Why is it that advocates of civilian disarmament get so upset when asked to follow the rules in GD? Jgarrick Apr 2014 #194

So you won't answer my question. Why might that be? DanTex Apr 2014 #196

I can't speak for "gungeoneers" but I'll be happy to answer the question. Jgarrick Apr 2014 #199

Well, this is a progressive/Democratic forum after all. DanTex Apr 2014 #201

My thoughts exactly Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #211

has any firearms owner alerted on the OP Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #219

one did on one of the posts. went down in flames. I was one juror who sent it down... CTyankee Apr 2014 #224

And how would I know that? DanTex Apr 2014 #227

I just see them pointing out the obvious Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #229

Man ya' gotta love all the Contitiutional and legal scholars here. nt flamin lib Apr 2014 #188

This message was self-deleted by its author rrneck Apr 2014 #189

The fifteen words that can fix the Second Amendment jmowreader Apr 2014 #192

Have at it. You'll need 34 states and 2/3rds of both Houses of Congress to agree... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #203

I know all about the private navies jmowreader Apr 2014 #267

"unfetterable right to guns" Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #273

How do you plan to deal with state Constitutions? hack89 Apr 2014 #213

pesky little facts nt Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #214

I am sometimes amazed how little people know about our system of laws hack89 Apr 2014 #218

it is called Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #223

And ya think Congress really "represents" what the people think? CTyankee Apr 2014 #233

You need to fix congress, not the 2A hack89 Apr 2014 #234

And what do you think the people in Congress are supporting, hmmm? CTyankee Apr 2014 #243

Their reelection hack89 Apr 2014 #246

so what is the "legal principle" they are supporting? CTyankee Apr 2014 #247

That my point - they are not supporting any legal principle hack89 Apr 2014 #249

it depends on where you live, doesn't it? CTyankee Apr 2014 #250

Look at what happened post Sandy Hook hack89 Apr 2014 #251

I'm not talking about gerrymandered congressional districts...I'm talking about CTyankee Apr 2014 #252

You can't gerrymander Senate districts hack89 Apr 2014 #253

But popular vote is spread in Senate races into state wide (read urban) areas so you CTyankee Apr 2014 #254

"Just you wait" has been the slogan of the gun control movement for 20 years now hack89 Apr 2014 #256

well, since your prime example is a state with two REPUBLICAN senators, I am sure you will be CTyankee Apr 2014 #257

I live in a state with two Dem senators hack89 Apr 2014 #258

Please try not to be so thin skinned. You were making your point using a state with two CTyankee Apr 2014 #281

I was explaining American legislative reality to you hack89 Apr 2014 #282

But who doesn't understand that point? It points to another issue that we can leave to debate CTyankee Apr 2014 #284

Oh well hack89 Apr 2014 #285

also pesky is the tough demographics your supporters have facing you... CTyankee Apr 2014 #222

yes we will Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #228

It's CT not CA yankee...but... CTyankee Apr 2014 #230

There are already laws preventing criminals from owning guns. Nt hack89 Apr 2014 #220

Like this sporting rifle? Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #232

Careful! Only anti-RKBA posters are allowed to post "gun porn" in GD! Jgarrick Apr 2014 #235

LOL. You sure seem to know a lot about DU customs for someone who joined a few weeks ago. DanTex Apr 2014 #245

That'll put a crimp in Right Wing Woodstocks at cattle ranches. Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2014 #210

Whatever our politics... Rafale Apr 2014 #236

LOL. Enjoy your stay. DanTex Apr 2014 #244

Depends on your persective. He needs some seasoning in the Gungeon. badtoworse Apr 2014 #263

You guys.... Rafale Apr 2014 #329

Don't take away my Goon! nikto Apr 2014 #248

Its really too bad for the restrictionistas that it doesn't say that. aikoaiko Apr 2014 #261

And they are 5 stupid words, too. krispos42 Apr 2014 #262

"it applied only to keeping and bearing arms for military purposes" Reter Apr 2014 #265

The point was to protect state militias from being disarmed by the federal government. DanTex Apr 2014 #287

But aren't they not protected anymore? Reter Apr 2014 #316

I have no idea what the laws are in that area. DanTex Apr 2014 #317

Drinking game!!! U4ikLefty Apr 2014 #271

Where are the points? Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #272

Didn't you know? Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #292

There is a problem here. sofa king Apr 2014 #289

I agree, but even adding those words probably wont stop the NRA and the RW.. DCBob Apr 2014 #290

Complete wishful thinking and revisionism pipoman Apr 2014 #299

If you haven't seen this before, it's worth a read.. X_Digger Apr 2014 #313

Fortunately, it takes 38 states to amend the Constitution. NaturalHigh Apr 2014 #323

The hosts have agreed to lock this under the 'no guns in GD' rule LeftishBrit Apr 2014 #324

Further discussion with hosts has revealed that some do not agree with locking; so have unlocked it LeftishBrit Apr 2014 #325

what a surprise Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #327

Kick for a good thread kristopher Apr 2014 #328