General Discussion

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)

70. I think it is

Tue Apr 15, 2014, 04:03 AM

Apr 2014

While I agree with you that we should be the world's police, we do have a duty to work diplomatically with other countries. You are conflating what Bush did from 2001 through the end of his term, with what Obama (and SOS Kerry) are doing now, which is completely false.

Were you one of the ones screaming that Obama was going to get us into a war in Syria? How'd that work out?

I totally support non-violent intervention when possible.

What you and others are suggesting is complete isolationist policies. I believe we tried that one before. Please remind me how that went.

To be clear before a certain pinhead (who has accused me of being a warmonger) comes into the conversation, I opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning. I also have lived overseas in South Korea for a decade. Since I've been here I've seen the reaction to the US going to war in Iraq and the reaction to the election of President Obama. It certainly wouldn't take a genius to guess which one I'd rather see.

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Triumph of the Ill - Ukraine Coup Leaders Turn on People [View all] autorank Apr 2014 OP

Oh for Christ's sake, are we still pretending these aren't Russian forces in masks? TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #1

It's much easier for some people to throw conspiracy theorist crap against the wall.... Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #2

Conspiracies are usually secret autorank Apr 2014 #27

I know your heart, auto and admire it - you're wrong on this. They're trained military ops not blm Apr 2014 #31

Heart wise;) autorank Apr 2014 #36

I get the intention, but, tearing at Kerry for responding appropriately to Russia's aggression is blm Apr 2014 #46

Thanks, Michael. Ghost Dog Apr 2014 #51

Who provided the uniforms and weapons to the Kiev 'protesters'? sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #98

This controversy is quite real. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #35

Just answer this autorank Apr 2014 #38

Doing what? Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #39

Georga autorank Apr 2014 #44

Georgia was a bit more complex. But going back to Ukraine...... Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #45

Georgia was a bit more complex than Ukraine? MattSh Apr 2014 #68

Ukraine is extremely simple. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #73

You mean speaking out, scheduling diplomatic conventions and using sanctions? karynnj Apr 2014 #91

Too bad your standard did not apply to pre-coup Ukraine. arendt Apr 2014 #57

You're framing things the way you want it to be framed. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #78

The conspiracy theory is that these are Russian forces in masks. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #69

The conspiracy theory.... Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #74

Below are facts from the article malaise Apr 2014 #75

The US doesn't need to spend any money to destabilize or create anti Russian sentiment in Ukraine. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #77

You may be correct... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #84

With all due respect, your opinion on political corruption matters nothing to Ukrainians. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #85

Again, you are most likely correct... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #88

We are still capable of analyzing the situation even if we are not Ukrainian. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #89

It is interesting... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #108

No. By all means, go forth and analyze all you want. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #110

Please don't put words in my mouth... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #114

About that $5 billion figure being bandied about and Neuland. It's rated 'Pants On Fire': freshwest May 2014 #116

Unfortunately, I don't think the CTers on here will listen. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #117

Thank you for this link, fresh! Finally some sanity to counter all the Cha May 2014 #118

There was a coup in Kiev. Did you miss it somehow? sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #97

Victor Yanukovych choose to flee the country and go to Russia. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #99

He was driven from office, that is called a coup. Someone was in a hurry to avoid a country wide sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #101

Certainly you aren't claiming... Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #104

We are not the world police autorank Apr 2014 #3

Still buying Putin's facsist bullshit meme are we? joeybee12 Apr 2014 #5

Putin is not my president autorank Apr 2014 #21

If you believe Sy Hersh on the chemical weapons in Syria, Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #32

Hersh is just fine autorank Apr 2014 #41

I don't know what you're using for your info, Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #50

Seriously...this expert knows more than hersh... Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #62

...and Hersh is a journalist, not a weapons expert. Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #71

Here is an article on the most recent UN report - they point to Assad - and they are experts karynnj Apr 2014 #92

Thanks karynnj Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #113

Going to spell out that lie, or just let it hang there? n/t arendt Apr 2014 #58

"We'd do the same if Russia had toppled Mexico with an anti American fascist government." Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #6

Uttterly incoherent. You said nothing. arendt Apr 2014 #59

Let me try to make it simple for you. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #72

+1 The Putin love is strong within some here...nt joeybee12 Apr 2014 #7

Who cares about Putin autorank Apr 2014 #22

If you really didn't you'd stop referring to the initial joeybee12 Apr 2014 #25

They tolerated molotov cocktail catapults and bulldozers cprise Apr 2014 #43

So the Right Sector and ..... socialist_n_TN Apr 2014 #66

Do you have any context as to the history of Ukraine and Russia? Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #76

So, no one can deviate from the neocon party line, comrade? arendt Apr 2014 #60

You appear get rather petulant and irrational when people have different opinions than you LanternWaste Apr 2014 #83

There's having different opinions... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #87

Im guessing KGB. Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #8

There's no evidence that they are. Xithras Apr 2014 #13

Sure, these aren't Russians taking over police stations and setting up "checkpoints". TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #14

Sure, they're ethnic Russians. Xithras Apr 2014 #16

They're the same "masked gunmen" who took over Crimea. Who were under TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #17

Again, got any links to back that up? Xithras Apr 2014 #23

Last week, the "locals" tried to take over some buildings, but didn't last long, TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #28

I don't think it's a "popular" uprising. Xithras Apr 2014 #30

When they start controlling roads, airports, other infrastructure, TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #33

NATO Secretary General concerned about escalation in eastern Ukraine muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #34

It's possible they may have even infiltrated Maidan by now as well(or at least helped to do so!). AverageJoe90 Apr 2014 #55

Got something to prove that? Speculation is rampant we know on all sides of this, but a little sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #96

People are reliving their duck and cover years Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #4

Al Quada in Syria autorank Apr 2014 #18

Exactly jamzrockz Apr 2014 #81

Exactly. nt Union Scribe Apr 2014 #94

"Self-determination" only applies to people we can control and/or exploit. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #9

True autorank Apr 2014 #24

Believing that the Russian government Aerows Apr 2014 #10

It's not our business autorank Apr 2014 #19

I think it is davidpdx Apr 2014 #70

Kerry/Putin/Kerry/Putin/Kerry/Putin OKNancy Apr 2014 #11

Like on sarin gas autorank Apr 2014 #20

What's your problem with Kerry in that article? (nt) muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #37

You know why Hersh published this in a book review magazine? No other place would publish it karynnj Apr 2014 #90

The London Review of Books is like the NY Review of Books. amandabeech Apr 2014 #109

I've read both Hersh used to publish in the New Yorker as well karynnj Apr 2014 #111

Your're right about the fact checkers, amandabeech Apr 2014 #112

I have no respect for Kerry arendt Apr 2014 #61

Your avatar would very very strongly disagree karynnj Apr 2014 #93

Trashing the thread nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #12

Yeah, Russian forces on the border looking for any excuse to reclaim what they think is theirs. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #15

The hypocrisy is stunning. But we know what it's all about, the neo-cons/libs are at the heart of sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #26

More all the time. Ghost Dog Apr 2014 #53

autorank, you have this wrong - those aren't peaceful protestors, they're trained military posing blm Apr 2014 #29

Protests have gone on for weeks in the east autorank Apr 2014 #40

IIRC the US funded explicitly neo-Nazi groups for years cprise Apr 2014 #42

It's certainly been spun that way by some. I am not a casual news consumer, cprise, blm Apr 2014 #47

Are you claiming to be a professional? n/t cprise Apr 2014 #49

No - just attentive and focused - I don't buy spin, especially when it defies logic. blm Apr 2014 #79

Spin? JoseGaspar Apr 2014 #80

Not just the US. JoseGaspar Apr 2014 #63

Always support RW extremists when dealing w/Russians cprise Apr 2014 #64

Yeah... sure... THESE guys looks non-violent to me. Adrahil Apr 2014 #48

Just to bury Syria, Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #52

It's simply about which side one agrees with seveneyes Apr 2014 #54

The US signed the Budapest memorandum, as did Britain. TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #56

AND respect sovereignty. cprise Apr 2014 #65

Give up auto... JoseGaspar Apr 2014 #67

Yushchenko was likely poisoned arely staircase Apr 2014 #82

You do know that independent medical tests confirmed that Yuschenko was poisoned, right? Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #86

Nuland made clear what the role of the US is in this latest 'intervention'. Please, we have enough sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #95

Yes. God forbid we recognize we live in a global society. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #100

Should we 'pay mind' to some of the worst crimes of the past decade and a half sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #103

So because we pay attention to what's going on in Ukraine..... Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #106

Why did that ONE crime pop into your mind right now? Why not the persecution by one of our sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #107

What I know... JoseGaspar Apr 2014 #102

Yay Oligarchs!!! warrprayer Apr 2014 #105

thanks JoseGaspar Apr 2014 #115