General Discussion

Avalux

(35,015 posts)

213. The American public has no clue how clinical research works.

Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:22 AM

Apr 2014

I'm not sure you do either. Drug/device/biologic development is far from perfect, but if we want to be able to cure and treat diseases, disorders, injuries, etc., a certain amount of risk is inherent. Clinical studies are intended to show that the benefit outweighs the risk, but not all 'studies' are created equal.

Clinical evidence includes lit review icase series, meta-analysis, retrospective study, observational study, and finally a randomized controlled study. The level of risk determines the type of study (or studies) needed to support the hypothesis. Drug studies always require randomized controlled tirlals, but it's impossible to know everything before approval.

Ongoing clinical research and adverse event reporting of approved drugs, devices and biologics are why we sometimes have reversals. And that's a GOOD thing.

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Either you believe in the scientific method or you don't [View all] La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 OP

Agreed 100%. And I've grown to really hate the word "woo" anyway. arcane1 Apr 2014 #1

agreed. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #4

I suspect a lot of people aren't even aware of what the scientific method is. arcane1 Apr 2014 #19

most people do not understand a theory from a hypothesis. it's incredibly frustrating La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #25

Most people don't understand the concept of "scientific process." Maedhros Apr 2014 #55

That's what allows the Koch whores to pull their "global warming is a religion" bait-and-switch nxylas Apr 2014 #113

I had a professor for an environmental history class mindwalker_i Apr 2014 #54

cf. Individuals such as Timothy Treadwell, Maedhros Apr 2014 #134

The natives altered their environment in North America pretty radically Ex Lurker Apr 2014 #203

There were, and maybe still are, peoples that practice slash-and-burn mindwalker_i Apr 2014 #209

strawman in this sentence, alp227 Apr 2014 #62

As do I. I was trying to think of an example and that was the first thing that came to mind. arcane1 Apr 2014 #67

I agree, but KatyMan Apr 2014 #2

Scientific method is process. Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #26

The beautiful thing is that it is a self-correcting process. Maedhros Apr 2014 #56

Exactly! Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #63

It's the best understanding that we have at any given time Gore1FL Apr 2014 #222

But what you're talking about is our knowledge of it, what is happening is still reality cui bono Apr 2014 #240

Ummm... gcomeau Apr 2014 #252

You are either kidding or you are not paying attention. N/T Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #253

Neither. -eom gcomeau Apr 2014 #257

not correct. knowledge gained through the methodology is often shown to be invalid... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #293

Oh really? gcomeau Apr 2014 #297

Yes really!!... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #298

Sigh... gcomeau Apr 2014 #299

Moving through the rest of the list... gcomeau Apr 2014 #300

you are confusing technology/engineering with scientific knowledge... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #326

No... I'm not. gcomeau Apr 2014 #327

Well, I was being glib...n/t KatyMan Apr 2014 #255

Agreed. The whole POINT of the scientific method is that subjective preferences don't apply. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #3

very true! La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #7

Actually there is a subjective preference that applies. eomer Apr 2014 #250

Occam isn't subjective when properly understood. gcomeau Apr 2014 #254

There is no way of knowing that - "the least improbable assumptions". eomer Apr 2014 #259

Yes, there is. gcomeau Apr 2014 #264

You're switching between simplicity and probability as if they're the same, but they're not. eomer Apr 2014 #268

Yeah... gcomeau Apr 2014 #269

Most people don't understand scientific method. Avalux Apr 2014 #5

I agree. In the case medical science, we want the null hypotheses to be wrong La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #9

If it could be proven tea and ginger work as well as penicillin, scientists would be thrilled. Avalux Apr 2014 #12

Some scientists are set in their ways mindwalker_i Apr 2014 #58

It does. cab67 Apr 2014 #83

I wholeheartedly agree with your post and Mindwalker's. Science isn't immune to corruption. nt adirondacker Apr 2014 #202

Science isn't immune to corruption. AlbertCat Apr 2014 #251

There is a general belief among some liberals that science has been co-opted Maedhros Apr 2014 #59

Are you denying that corporate america misuses "science"? kristopher Apr 2014 #109

Whenever I speak of "science" I am referring to the scientific method. Maedhros Apr 2014 #137

Correct. Science cannot be misused; it is based on laws. Avalux Apr 2014 #185

Science is a human activity, and as such, it certainly can be misused. Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #200

The scientific process is sound. Maedhros Apr 2014 #227

The data gained from the scientific process can be misused, used as propaganda, hyperbole,... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #294

It's a process, but it can be carried out badly or ineffectually. Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #295

of course it can. Methods are rarely, if ever, perfect, but then it is up to the next... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #296

what is a proven treatment though? hfojvt Apr 2014 #206

I find it strange you use the word believe to describe scientific method. Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #6

i struggled with the word belief too, but i couldn't think of a better word La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #8

It is tricky. Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #21

Excellent post YoungDemCA Apr 2014 #24

Thanks! Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #39

it far more arrogant to claim something works, then to claim La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #30

+1000 Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #201

If you "accept" the basic principles of reason, then the scientific method flows logically from them FarCenter Apr 2014 #218

but i couldn't think of a better word AlbertCat Apr 2014 #256

thanks for the link and your posts Big Blue Marble... Locrian Apr 2014 #36

DU is FULL of what I call 'situational' ethics. Take the recent Bundy case in NV. MANY kelly1mm Apr 2014 #10

or the 'people should respect the president' La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #11

HOLY SHIT! DID I READ WHAT I THOUGHT I READ?!? Give me a sec........ A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #40

Well, there is a reason to insist on more containers on trains Maedhros Apr 2014 #65

Excuse me while I.... A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #103

To be fair, every one of those containers arrived at the rail yard via a truck. arcane1 Apr 2014 #112

And thereby inceasing the transportation costs by 50% A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #123

This message was self-deleted by its author arcane1 Apr 2014 #125

Welcome to the ignore list! Maedhros Apr 2014 #139

Ah! Ah! uh...uh...um...ummmmmm A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #214

Since productivity has increased by a factor or four or more since the end of WW II-- eridani Apr 2014 #154

There's no need to say 'fuck the truckers', Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #228

There's a fine line between being facetious ...... A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #238

I wasn't sure. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #244

made my living in that capacity for most of the last 27 years. AlbertCat Apr 2014 #260

I've got an idea for what you can do with your rolling eyes and snark.... A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #284

Awwwww... AlbertCat Apr 2014 #292

But Bundy had been in contempt of court for a long time alp227 Apr 2014 #177

My point, which you seem to have missed, is that in both cases there is a valid court order, kelly1mm Apr 2014 #195

Frequently the argument being made on the behalf of the homeowners truebluegreen Apr 2014 #265

Actually, no, it does not. The validity of a court order depends not on how it was obtained, but kelly1mm Apr 2014 #272

And I was specifically referencing the validity of the court orders. nt truebluegreen Apr 2014 #285

OK - so if a state court judge in the state where the property is located signs an order kelly1mm Apr 2014 #288

That is human nature, I'm afraid. alarimer Apr 2014 #182

It happens on the right, too Ex Lurker Apr 2014 #204

Probably moreso on the right. But we know they are not clear thinkers! lol! nt kelly1mm Apr 2014 #210

Science isn't a democracy. You don't get to pick which hypotheses "work for you." NuclearDem Apr 2014 #13

Way WAY too thoughtful for DU's peanut gallery here. closeupready Apr 2014 #14

LOL. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #15

How have you been? Hope you are enjoying the nice weather? closeupready Apr 2014 #17

the nice weather is only 3 days old and i am sceptical that we will be sucked into another La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #18

Oh, and 'woo' is not really a word - it exists on DU and nowhere else. closeupready Apr 2014 #16

No. It's a term coined by James Randi, and is used in a ton of places. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #20

It is not used in tons of places - it's used here on DU only. closeupready Apr 2014 #27

You've got to be kidding me. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #29

this post is a little dramatic for the statement that closeupready made La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #35

Well, I've personally never seen it used elsewhere; but having said that, closeupready Apr 2014 #48

I heard the term a lot in the 90's noiretextatique Apr 2014 #187

LOL, really? Or just messing with us? nt Logical Apr 2014 #34

+1000. I've never heard or seen "woo" used like this anywhere else either. quinnox Apr 2014 #37

Uhm, yeah, about that... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #84

It is unfortunate... xocet Apr 2014 #108

Yes, though I love the series of videos from University of Nottingham... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #142

Thanks, though, for reminding me that those videos exist - I should watch them. n/t xocet Apr 2014 #153

"... it's used here on DU only." Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #47

A polite correction: Nevernose Apr 2014 #75

This message was self-deleted by its author closeupready Apr 2014 #79

Wow, really? It's not just here on DU. Thor_MN Apr 2014 #104

Nooo PasadenaTrudy Apr 2014 #126

I encountered the term first via James Randi, long before I saw it on DU. arcane1 Apr 2014 #22

+1. closeupready Apr 2014 #28

I hate it, too Art_from_Ark Apr 2014 #141

PZ Myers uses "woo" Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #32

Okay, I guess I was wrong. closeupready Apr 2014 #52

Woo is a word but it mean something else gollygee Apr 2014 #61

I'm afraid that's nonsense. Try Google, RationalWiki, Wikipedia, Skepdic.com, etc. etc. mr blur Apr 2014 #69

Whatever. closeupready Apr 2014 #76

Woo is used by actual skeptics on a regular basis. HuckleB Apr 2014 #277

As to the word "woo," I'm going to continue to use it until there no longer is any woo out there. Archae Apr 2014 #23

heroic! G_j Apr 2014 #42

I'm with you!!! HuckleB Apr 2014 #278

I like your rant except where you mention belief in the scientific method. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #31

actually belief is the right word there. a process might be perfect La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #33

On the other hand..... A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #51

I believe in m�thode champenoise whatchamacallit Apr 2014 #38

I don't think the problem is with the method The Straight Story Apr 2014 #41

If a false paper is published, it is QUICKLY peer reviewed and called out. Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #91

Well, The Straight Story Apr 2014 #97

A lot of science reporting is almost as bad as the woo stuff Chathamization Apr 2014 #129

Correlation is not causation. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #232

I have a friend with which I discuss politics, history, literature and philosphy. Maedhros Apr 2014 #282

I believe in the scientific when it suits my political leanings, TheManInTheMac Apr 2014 #43

. libodem Apr 2014 #44

trust and belief both imply faith. had i used trust, i would have had La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #45

You may be entirely correct libodem Apr 2014 #49

not offensive at all La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #50

. libodem Apr 2014 #53

k&r Puzzledtraveller Apr 2014 #46

Science is simple RobertEarl Apr 2014 #57

yes, it is not perfect. it is better than guesswork though. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #66

Some 'alternative' medicines do 'work' RobertEarl Apr 2014 #71

ii am not saying something that is natural cannot be shown to work. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #77

How did we ever survive? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #87

We didn't survive... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #92

No it wasn't RobertEarl Apr 2014 #102

You're denying that life expectancy is not much longer now than it was Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #111

There have been many who lived a hundred years or more RobertEarl Apr 2014 #115

It falls down to the AVERAGE. Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #120

Science helped, you say? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #127

Science IDENTIFIED the pollutants... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #157

Hey, I believe in science RobertEarl Apr 2014 #161

Animals have senses that we don't have... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #163

Memory is not written in DNA. Reflex actions are. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #166

Are you seriously not aware that the "average life expectancy" truebluegreen Apr 2014 #267

We survived by fucking like rabbits and mourning a lot more dead relatives than we do now. arcane1 Apr 2014 #107

Ever walked in a really old cemetary? Did you notice how many of the stones were for children? LeftyMom Apr 2014 #156

My grandmother lost her brother in the 1920's, before antibiotics were readily available. alarimer Apr 2014 #184

My grandmother lost her mom and two siblings around then. LeftyMom Apr 2014 #186

F'ing acorns, how do they work? pffshht Apr 2014 #81

All we do is read the signs of the acorn RobertEarl Apr 2014 #89

Jesus holds a gun to the acorn's head and says, "Be a tree, man, cuz we don't like ACORN." valerief Apr 2014 #93

"No one has yet understood what is in that acorn that tells the acorn this is what the acorn... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #96

We know it to be a mystery RobertEarl Apr 2014 #106

Actually we do know, what are you babbling about? Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #118

You have a bad attitude RobertEarl Apr 2014 #130

I have a bad attitude because one of your key arguments is that you are ignorant... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #136

Whatever RobertEarl Apr 2014 #143

What is precisely the mystery here according to you? Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #146

You know it all? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #149

What "creativity"? You are using words that make no sense in context. Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #152

deep dude real deep snooper2 Apr 2014 #158

If one does not think evolution is a sufficient theory, it would be a mystery.... xocet Apr 2014 #133

Yes. Energy RobertEarl Apr 2014 #138

"...or what makes it energetic...." LOL xocet Apr 2014 #155

Looking in the mirror, are you? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #160

The acorn doesn't know anything; it doesn't need to. pffshht Apr 2014 #114

Nice try RobertEarl Apr 2014 #121

What is it we don't know about acorns? cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #147

We know plenty about how oak tree reproduction works and why acorns exist. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #162

"...then you deduct...." What a clever use of 'deductio' ad absurdum! Not many can follow that. xocet Apr 2014 #211

take horse piss for menopause and get breast cancer and die. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #60

You're talking about a concept that was started in 1943 and ended in 1975. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #64

Taking Medication As Prescribed Is Leading Cause Of Death: KittyWampus Apr 2014 #80

I just googled it, assuming the study from 1998 is what you are referencing, its between 4th to 6th Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #88

Do you presume that all those people would have lived otherwise? cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #148

Sure, it happens. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #237

My mother was taking horse piss in the 1990's Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #205

Do you have link to a paper or study proving your assertion? Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #86

Liberals can have it both ways, 3 ways, any number of ways IronLionZion Apr 2014 #68

actually the protocol behind medical science requires no art. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #70

Reality check- Medical Science is done inside a laboratory. Even drug trials aren't the real world. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #82

That's only for the first parts, then its taken out of the laboratory for things such as human... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #99

Living beings are not all the same IronLionZion Apr 2014 #151

Body chemistry is too complex to reduce things to black and white riderinthestorm Apr 2014 #167

Reiki very likely is woo. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #241

You can have woo and science too IronLionZion Apr 2014 #245

Sure. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #246

Thank you, IronLionZion. Cha Apr 2014 #173

You're absolutely right about the word "woo" Nevernose Apr 2014 #72

actually, i think pseudoscience is a great word. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #74

Yeah, cuz liberals are all endorsing vibrating water. valerief Apr 2014 #73

LOL. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #78

The current system for testing medications is a long, expensive, complex process cally Apr 2014 #85

you really think big pharma could not make money out of homeopathy or ayurveda? La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #90

If big pharma could sell sugar pills Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #94

Yeah, they are big in the "alternative" industry, I don't understand why people... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #122

only if the compound could be patented. Plus, I see many posters cally Apr 2014 #128

They can't be patented. Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #208

Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence naturallyselected Apr 2014 #95

Actually, science isn't dependent on "belief". Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2014 #98

Your point is fine, but the argument is weak. kristopher Apr 2014 #100

Agreed, but sometimes science can be a little slow, as in the case of cannabis. Zorra Apr 2014 #101

That's more about politics than science, though. HuckleB Apr 2014 #279

When politics determines which science is valid, then "Houston...we have a problem". Zorra Apr 2014 #324

Woooooooooooooooooooo I hate it! dead_head Apr 2014 #105

Science and industry are not the same things. arcane1 Apr 2014 #116

I totally agree dead_head Apr 2014 #131

What was his reply? arcane1 Apr 2014 #132

He wanted to stop the conversations dead_head Apr 2014 #135

"the problem is the industry and the profit driven system" arcane1 Apr 2014 #171

Bingo dead_head Apr 2014 #220

Who ever thought that in 2013 we would still be having yuiyoshida Apr 2014 #110

Most hilarious homeopathic statement ever... onager Apr 2014 #117

They just needed to think more positively arcane1 Apr 2014 #119

lol. that is a great story La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #145

So...is DU officially shifting to "Woo Culture?" It's hard to keep up. Atman Apr 2014 #124

Because there are too many times in my medical life when the answer is no one knows. Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #140

excellent post G_j Apr 2014 #150

agree. nt bananas Apr 2014 #159

Thanks. n/t Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #165

I just get so tired of a binary view, when it is really a spectrum. Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #164

Agreed 110%. Body chemistry is sufficiently different from person to person riderinthestorm Apr 2014 #168

The working theory for my daughter's disease Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #174

My sister coded (died) during a colonoscopy. Destroyed her liver and kidneys. riderinthestorm Apr 2014 #180

Reminds me of what my surgeon said Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #196

Brilliant, excellent post! Wish there was a rec for replies. nationalize the fed Apr 2014 #169

Thanks. n/t Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #175

Great post BuddhaGirl Apr 2014 #170

Thanks. n/t Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #176

you are conflating a lot of different issues in this post La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #192

No - I am actually expanding back out Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #199

There is a big difference within the "professions," however. HuckleB Apr 2014 #283

Your experience differs from mine in traditional medicine - Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #286

IOW, you want your provider to be dishonest. HuckleB Apr 2014 #287

No clue where you are getting that from. Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #291

Well said. nt Zorra Apr 2014 #310

K&R Tom Ripley Apr 2014 #144

What about the problem of reversals in medical science? kwassa Apr 2014 #172

Again, the problem here is the conflation of "science" and "technology." Maedhros Apr 2014 #190

This is why the public, an educated public, might have little faith in science. kwassa Apr 2014 #191

What are these areas of scientific investigation in which you claim the practitioners Maedhros Apr 2014 #194

Medical science, primarily kwassa Apr 2014 #198

And what would be your suggested alternative to the scientific method? Maedhros Apr 2014 #207

I am not suggesting an alternative. I am pointing out why alternative thinking is popular. kwassa Apr 2014 #231

I'd say it's mostly the result of poor science curricula in the schools and universities Maedhros Apr 2014 #243

People can be highly educated within a very narrow specialty kwassa Apr 2014 #271

The entire point of a "university" used to be to produce well-rounded graduates Maedhros Apr 2014 #273

I was a fine arts major ... kwassa Apr 2014 #274

My experience with the students I taught while in graduate school was sobering. Maedhros Apr 2014 #275

The American public has no clue how clinical research works. Avalux Apr 2014 #213

Thanks for the gratuitous insult. kwassa Apr 2014 #235

That's part of the process. Science does correct itself, eventually. HuckleB Apr 2014 #280

If you are talking about the "scientific method". sendero Apr 2014 #178

Ridiculous strawman. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #179

Ridiculous nonsense.. sendero Apr 2014 #181

Pure nonsense. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #183

I totally believe in the scientific method.. sendero Apr 2014 #212

I have to concur with NuclearDem. Maedhros Apr 2014 #189

The scientific method did not result in the recall. Maedhros Apr 2014 #188

And I don't want to talk to a scientist... progressoid Apr 2014 #193

I accept the scientific method as the best means we have for understanding the material universe Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #197

Exactly dead_head Apr 2014 #219

I made a post earlier in the thread about this. Maedhros Apr 2014 #233

That's blow-back against Koch backed GOP anti-science campaigns kristopher Apr 2014 #276

That's perfectly acceptable. Maedhros Apr 2014 #229

I know that. My mother is a scientist. Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #248

I agree. There is an element of "Science = Truth" in some arguments. Maedhros Apr 2014 #261

I 100% Dorian Gray Apr 2014 #215

It is a stretch of the imagination to think that big pharma follows the "scientific method". randr Apr 2014 #216

yet, amazingly a large part of these studies come from research universities and not big pharma. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #224

Follow the money randr Apr 2014 #226

Since the early 90's, public research funding for American and Canadian universities Maedhros Apr 2014 #234

Bingo randr Apr 2014 #270

Given their spoty record, some of the science types . . FairWinds Apr 2014 #217

yes, ofcourse i have read kuhn on scientific paradigms La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #223

Plate tectonics wasn't fully fleshed out until about 1967. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #225

There's a conflict between belief in the scientific method and appeals to authority. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #221

either you believe in being self righteous and condescending or you don't. liberal_at_heart Apr 2014 #230

You obviously didn't read too much of the thread. Atman Apr 2014 #236

The scientific method is not something you can "believe in" Kermitt Gribble Apr 2014 #239

I find it odd that you associate anti-vaxxers and homeopathy with liberals. RedCappedBandit Apr 2014 #242

no, i associate the hypocrisy with liberals (condemning and exalting science, when convenient) La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #247

While Professor Feynman would certainly agree..... DeSwiss Apr 2014 #249

I would refrain from citing "What The Bleep Do We Know?" Maedhros Apr 2014 #258

I don't care about ANY of that. DeSwiss Apr 2014 #262

I spent a great deal of time with x-ray diffraction, fluorescence analysis Maedhros Apr 2014 #266

Feynman would be the exact opposite of the crap in "What the Bleep." HuckleB Apr 2014 #281

Scientific evidence is the standard, as far as it goes. truebluegreen Apr 2014 #263

Nice accusations. HuckleB Apr 2014 #289

Who is this mythical 'we' you speak of? idendoit Apr 2014 #290

Maybe you would prefer to deal with robots, rather than humans. JEFF9K Apr 2014 #301

What about the trilas which have not undergone the scientific method study darkangel218 Apr 2014 #302

... NuclearDem Apr 2014 #308

Irrelevant to the Big Pharma you mean. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #309

Irrelevant to people actually developing treatments NuclearDem Apr 2014 #311

BS. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #314

Homeopathy isn't downplayed because of Big Pharma. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #316

Homeopathy is not the only natural cure. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #317

Homeopathy isn't a cure at all. It's barely even a treatment. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #320

Its the placebo treatment which has been found to help a number of afflictions . darkangel218 Apr 2014 #321

Because frankly all the other "natural" treatments are too crazy to get into. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #322

LMAO!!! darkangel218 Apr 2014 #323

Feeling's mutual. nt NuclearDem Apr 2014 #325

Totally agree... Tikki Apr 2014 #303

Are you conducting scientific studies? darkangel218 Apr 2014 #304

But you realize many, many have died waiting for a 'sure cure' to work. Tikki Apr 2014 #305

Many terminals , you mean. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #306

Let's talk about 'gall bladder disease' and those who have died.. Tikki Apr 2014 #307

Alternative treatments should be scientifically studied darkangel218 Apr 2014 #313

Keep going. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #315

Whatever lol. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #318

Ahh..The eternal quest for Certainty.... Junkdrawer Apr 2014 #312

Certainty is where the money is. nt darkangel218 Apr 2014 #319

i am kicking this since i dont want to say it again, and we are on this topic La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #328