General Discussion

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)

132. well...

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 11:01 PM

Apr 2014

"suggesting that the troops who had arrived with them had at least to some extent joined the rebels"

That bit of speculation is simply bullshit, unless backed by something other than the evidence claimed to back it. (That the tanks were surrendered.)

The entire Ukrainian military in Crimea surrendered pretty much everything anyone demanded without a shoot-out. So I suppose that "suggests" the entire Ukrainian military contingent in Ukraine had, at least to some extent, joined the rebels.

It's not even a theory. More an ass-covering spasm. The Guardian had, earlier, fallen for the defection hoax, and that story has been rewritten on the fly a couple of times. That may well be a watered down version of language from an earlier version.

I don't find the idea of defections incredible or even unlikely. But the story about the defecting Ukranians riding their tanks into town was phony.

"They said they were heading to the neighboring region of Dnipropetrovsk, where their 25th regiment is based."

When you desert from the military to defect to another power you don't return to your base after your "at least to some extent" defection.

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Ukrainian troops sent by Kiev defect to anti-government protesters. [View all] another_liberal Apr 2014 OP

Guardian live update reports the same dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #1

This may turn out to be one of those CIA sponsored coups . . . another_liberal Apr 2014 #2

That is precisely what is happening malaise Apr 2014 #45

let's hope Putin rots in hell. nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #92

Someone on twitter said... Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #112

That is deep . . . another_liberal Apr 2014 #121

Pretty much captured the mess of multi-ethnic states when a strong central authority disappears. Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #124

Pretty much captured the mess of these multi-ethnic states when a strong central authority disappear Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #123

I'm not so sure of that, TBH. AverageJoe90 Apr 2014 #166

Thanks. This is probably why NATO is now involved. They can't let the people decide sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #16

You should probably bother to keep reading your own sources. jeff47 Apr 2014 #30

I watched the American born journalist on CNN tearing the host a new one malaise Apr 2014 #44

Although still NOT free from the Russian imperialistic taint, THIS........ socialist_n_TN Apr 2014 #3

Popular uprisings don't look like this: Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #4

However . . . another_liberal Apr 2014 #6

The people in this picture are the ones shielding the people in the first picture. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #8

Damn it, I forgot the rules . . . another_liberal Apr 2014 #10

No, they're both wrong. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #37

They just seized the Central Bank malaise Apr 2014 #109

Sure, 1st thing you ALWAYS do in a protest... EX500rider Apr 2014 #82

Who "seized government buildings" in Maiden? joshcryer Apr 2014 #144

Of course they don't, which raises the question, what is the point of that photo? sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #17

"All of the people of Ukraine, not just the few thousand" Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #42

'Seized tanks'?? Really? Have you read the world wide news reports on the defection of the Ukraine sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #47

"No offence by you appear to be among them, have zero knowledge of this country." Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #58

Well, end of conversation when someone resorts to personal insults. Most Americans have ZERO sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #66

Yes. I so love your "independent reporting" that you post here. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #78

I don't 'reportt' anything, I am not a reporter. I do correct wrong information if I see it. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #80

The BBC has done some thorough reporting on the matter. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #83

Western media has a clear bias in this story and have FAR FAR less reason to be involved there sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #84

What do you mean, "Why are we there?" Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #85

Explain?? Surely you are not denying the role the US played in the coup? Surely you are not sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #111

In conspiracy theories, the burden of proof is always on the person espousing the theory. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #169

So you admit that the US State Dept. not to mention two US Senators, were in Ukraine sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #178

I've put forward is the generally accepted narrative. You are claiming the conspiracy theory. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #179

Well, when you wrongfully attribute words to someone whose words are right in front of you sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #180

You're talking, putting words down, but you haven't proven a single thing. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #182

Why the hell is Putin there? NuclearDem Apr 2014 #110

What the hell gives US the right to enforce our will, with our WMDs on Iraq, on Afghanistan, sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #113

What the fuck are you talking about? NuclearDem Apr 2014 #118

What is false about anything in my post?? Please stop trying to dismiss the role of the Western sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #125

We meddle everywhere. 840high Apr 2014 #130

Thank you. 840high Apr 2014 #129

In complex situations like what is going on truedelphi Apr 2014 #90

Duck Dynasty, nyet? nt JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2014 #79

Popular uprising in Ukraine vs Syria Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #93

Only difference between Syria and Ukraine is Syria shot back. joshcryer Apr 2014 #139

At this point . . . another_liberal Apr 2014 #5

because it is totally there right to carve up another country nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #104

Are you kidding me? joshcryer Apr 2014 #115

Good lord, can people stop posting links to Russia Today as if they were reliable on this issue? LeftyMom Apr 2014 #7

Russia Today is not only extremely reliable . . . another_liberal Apr 2014 #11

they are reliably full of shit arely staircase Apr 2014 #48

The Corporate Media IS allowed in LBN, which is why I do not use LBN sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #51

yes. the dallas morning news is a real news source arely staircase Apr 2014 #54

Well, I will have to look for the Dallas Mornng News, never heard of it before. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #133

. kwassa Apr 2014 #116

RT isn't allowed in Breaking News, so we here in GD get blasted with it cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #13

From the same poster... SidDithers Apr 2014 #71

Who is 'we'?? The Corporate Media, so totally discredited, is allowed in LBN, and WE are blasted sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #164

Thank you War Horse Apr 2014 #15

Why? They are one of the more reliable news organizations on world affairs. Surely you have no sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #18

The elephant in the room ... polly7 Apr 2014 #20

Whenever I see anyone attack the messenger while ignoring the message, I wonder sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #23

I've noticed that. polly7 Apr 2014 #28

Seriously? jeff47 Apr 2014 #34

Very serious. polly7 Apr 2014 #35

Apparently quoting you doesn't get you to think about what you are saying. jeff47 Apr 2014 #74

Seriously, those of us on this thread wondering how anyone can possibly feel they're polly7 Apr 2014 #99

I'm wondering how you can keep avoiding reading jeff47 Apr 2014 #146

Very serious comment from Polly also backed up by so many credible journalists here and elsewhere. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #95

Quick!!! Change the subject again!!! jeff47 Apr 2014 #148

I answered you up thread. polly7 Apr 2014 #151

And I already replied to you upthread. jeff47 Apr 2014 #153

LOL polly7 Apr 2014 #156

You should not reject a story from any source until you know, as we do re the Corporate sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #155

Yeah .... polly7 Apr 2014 #157

Lol, but the urge to smear any source, and we know how many credible sources have been tossed sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #161

I was told I wanted to have Saddam's babies! polly7 Apr 2014 #162

I never said I discounted anything based upon who published it. polly7 Apr 2014 #150

I. Quoted. You. jeff47 Apr 2014 #152

And here is my fucking quote: polly7 Apr 2014 #154

You mean repeat myself again? jeff47 Apr 2014 #171

It's not hard work at all, I thought you'd probably just accidentally polly7 Apr 2014 #175

It's a tactic, one that is now so obvious, it has zero impact. Great links btw. The truth is that sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #36

I remember how, when simply revealing a source was from Al Jazeera, polly7 Apr 2014 #38

Do you demand such posts when someone says Fox News is wrong? jeff47 Apr 2014 #31

Huh? I don't and never have watched Faux, the danger of becoming physically ill sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #55

Quick!!! Switch Subjects!!!!!! jeff47 Apr 2014 #76

Still trying to avoid discussing the actual issues, still unwilling to point out where the sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #81

I've pointed it out repeatedly. jeff47 Apr 2014 #86

I have FACTS. The deja vu is stunning. I recall having these almost identical conversations re Al sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #96

Sabrina, you are MISTAKEN. Click a link for any of cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #101

First, before I get to the question of the news reports re defecting troops. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #158

No, you don't. You are continuing to lie. jeff47 Apr 2014 #149

See my post below, I really don't have time to repeat the facts again just for you. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #159

No, they are not reporting that. Why are you insisting on lying? jeff47 Apr 2014 #173

Thanks for confirming what I was hoping I was wrong about. You DO support sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #176

And yet you're still lying jeff47 Apr 2014 #177

Lol, keep on truckin' and avoiding the reality of the known facts. You are definitely entitled to be sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #181

Wow. zappaman Apr 2014 #163

Letting the lies go means others will believe them. jeff47 Apr 2014 #172

joining NATO is looking pretty smart about now. nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #49

In YOUR opinion. But apparently NOT in the opinion of the Ukraine people. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #97

I'm guessing people from latvia to poland to croatia and all point in between are glad as hell right arely staircase Apr 2014 #103

Hillary's worst nightmare come true. Corporate MSM losing the propaganda war Catherina Apr 2014 #89

She did say 'we are losing the message'. How odd, the news is a 'message' now?? I thought the news sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #98

Yes, a message. See my quote of the month from Robert Parry about the US Propaganda Catherina Apr 2014 #107

Great post by Parry. I suppose he too is now on the 'under the bus' list. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #126

Keep asking lol. You'll never get one Catherina Apr 2014 #136

Me too. Sy Hersch is the latest to join the crowd under the bus. First to report the Torture crimes sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #138

All the right people on the Left are under the bus. It's not even respectable 2b anywhere else now! Catherina Apr 2014 #160

"much more honest and more accurate than what the U.S. press corps has been producing" Robert Parry Catherina Apr 2014 #94

As reliable as MSM. 840high Apr 2014 #131

These must be Russian imposters LittleBlue Apr 2014 #9

They sure did ship a ton of peope in from Russia newthinking Apr 2014 #12

That grandmotherly lady in the lower left must be Putin's spymaster LittleBlue Apr 2014 #14

Nah.... Xolodno Apr 2014 #68

Is that suppoed to be clever? They WERE imposters. cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #102

Source? Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #114

Okay cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #120

From your article... Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #122

Sad isn't it? That the very people here who claimed to support the 'right of protesters' in Kiev, sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #127

well... cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #132

Count on them. William769 Apr 2014 #19

You forgot to include the Guardian and Reuters on this occasion. dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #21

Well in their defense they are reporting what the individual said to them. William769 Apr 2014 #22

As I mentioned in the link you provided dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #24

Mistakes happen. William769 Apr 2014 #27

This one : dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #29

Thanks. William769 Apr 2014 #33

Here's a still shot dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #40

Pro-Russia separatists �seize� Ukrainian armoured vehicles FarCenter Apr 2014 #25

Got anything to counter the reporting in the OP? I've already checked this story and it appears to sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #26

Try reading the post directly above yours. (nt) jeff47 Apr 2014 #32

I've read every post here Still not getting answers to my question, though. So I'll try asking again sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #41

No, you haven't. Because the very title of the post I mentioned answers your question. jeff47 Apr 2014 #75

They give voices to people who are critical of the West and the US NuclearDem Apr 2014 #39

You must not watch it. I have seen plenty of reporting on the opposition sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #43

No major media outlet is 100% credible or free of bias and slant. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #53

Of course no one should ever trust one source and thanks for acknowledging that sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #62

It's not a news organization's job to rehabilitate a country's image. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #67

People DO laugh at our Corporate Media. Are you seriously suggesting we get 'truth' and 'facts' sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #128

Oh don't you even fucking dare. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #137

No, you stop. Sick to death of this garbage. I don't know you from adam. IF you want to attack sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #147

how did I know this would be RT? arely staircase Apr 2014 #46

Cynicism doesn't help when the reply #1 back its up elsewhere dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #50

what? nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #56

How did I know the discussion would devolve into being about the messenger rather than the message? Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #52

because the messenger is so flawed it stinks up everything. nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #57

So, reporting the news accurately depends on the smell? Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #59

they are the propaganda arm of a homophobic fascist. arely staircase Apr 2014 #60

You have yet to comment on the story. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #61

nor do I comment on what stormfront is saying arely staircase Apr 2014 #63

OK. How about commenting on the same story by The Guardian and NYTimes? Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #64

they aren't the op. that steamy pile of fascist shit is. nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #69

The story is the same. Is it the story you object to? Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #72

I have no opinion on the story arely staircase Apr 2014 #73

Ok, let's. jeff47 Apr 2014 #77

RT never issues corrections. joshcryer Apr 2014 #143

I know. I'm asking about it to point out that RT never corrects. (nt) jeff47 Apr 2014 #174

Or the Guardian or Reuters come to that dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #65

what? nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #70

Well, because for some, there's no need to discuss the message Scootaloo Apr 2014 #135

Well, certainly RT's lies get buried in the mud. joshcryer Apr 2014 #140

Because it is one of the most reliable international news sources and recognized as such?? sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #165

you know this story turned out to br bullshit right? nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #170

The babushkas as terrorists meme not working out the way we planned Catherina Apr 2014 #87

Well, I *suppose* this might be considered a babushka by some..... Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #88

Memes from fox news. Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #117

That is Associated Press. joshcryer Apr 2014 #142

That's a revolutionary man of the people. joshcryer Apr 2014 #141

I'm sure the Cheneyites and McCainoistas will be all over this...nt Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #91

Chris Hayes is covering this very well tonight n/t malaise Apr 2014 #100

Details Malaise please Catherina Apr 2014 #105

Robert Parry chimes in Oilwellian Apr 2014 #106

+1000. It's my quote of the month now! Catherina Apr 2014 #108

"This propaganda . . . is not just wretched journalism but it is reckless malfeasance." another_liberal Apr 2014 #119

+1000. Sadly, our state department and our press are lying to us about this. reformist2 Apr 2014 #167

Yes, that is because they don't really serve the American people . . . another_liberal Apr 2014 #168

+1 840high Apr 2014 #134

Fact: Men abandon APCs to avoid armed conflict. RT: Men defect for the revolution. joshcryer Apr 2014 #145