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Blue_Tires

(57,596 posts)

24. To be honest, I'd have expected him to already be where he wanted to defect to

Thu Apr 17, 2014, 09:40 PM

Apr 2014

Last edited Fri Apr 18, 2014, 02:50 PM - Edit history (3)

before contacting the guardian and outing himself...

If that wasn't possible, or if Hong Kong was his #1 choice, I'd have expected him to have a few primary and a few more alternate "escape routes" pre-planned from Hong Kong in case things got hairy...I just don't understand how he had a plan so intricate and complex (a year in the making at the minimum, since he started hacking servers in Spring 2012, if not earlier) to lift the files with nobody getting wise while at the same time having a "meh, I'll figure it out along the way...It'll work out somehow" -attitude to his asylum plans....IIRC, he also grossly underestimated how harsh the early reaction from Washington would be...Not only was he indignant, he was downright *shocked* that the U.S. would flag his passport...Evidently he was pennywise on how intelligence services actually operate...

And if life in Moscow is that unbearably unpleasant, he can stroll to the nearest U.S. embassy anytime and deal with reality back home...And if things are really that bad he should have been sending S.O.S. messages to anyone in the world since all of his communications are heavily encrypted...I don't seem to remember too many complaints about how dire his situation is back when he was getting the rock star treatment...

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General Correction: Snowden did not choose to be in Russia. [View all] JackRiddler Apr 2014 OP

Shouldn't that be followed by "AFAIK"? You don't know if it was accident or not. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #1

Was the US government involved in this conspiracy? SolutionisSolidarity Apr 2014 #3

As has been pointed out, Snowie went missing a few days before he "surfaced" in Russia. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #4

As opposed to you, who already knows... JackRiddler Apr 2014 #5

!!! Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #10

Thanks, Sen. McCarthy. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #11

You're welcome. Anytime! Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #34

McCarthy was an orator. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #49

Here's some more "electronic animation" for ya! Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #58

Well there's somebody who appears to be 100% convinced that Snowden was a Russian spy Number23 Apr 2014 #84

my, my flamingdem Apr 2014 #110

And who's in a better position to know Snowden's professional status than Vlad the Impaler? Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #120

Wouldn't a more likely translation be that he was saying that Snowden, working for the karynnj Apr 2014 #128

But that doesn't support the outlandish claims being made.. TroglodyteScholar Apr 2014 #133

Of course that is what he meant. Puglover Apr 2014 #142

That's entirely possible. But given the nature of what I've read about Snowden's position with the Number23 Apr 2014 #150

You are working too hard to parse this karynnj Apr 2014 #152

See my edit. Nothing I've read about Snowden's NSA position has ever even come close to equalling Number23 Apr 2014 #154

Not sure if you were aware, but Edward Snowden was in the (mostly subcontracted) employ of the NSA. DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #143

...^ that 840high Apr 2014 #20

I am so sick of people falling for the character assasination of Edward Snowden& propaganda that's Rockyj Apr 2014 #141

the critics are outliers grasswire Apr 2014 #151

No, it shouldn't. It is a fact which apparently is known to the OP. The US Govt forced Snowden sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #44

Yup. And "50 million US households now watch RTTV"..... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #55

Wrong, it's more than that now! That was years ago. Try to keep up! sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #60

Link? Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #63

she's right arely staircase Apr 2014 #67

I, and many others, have been waiting for a link since she made that ludicrous claim. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #72

she won't give you a link, for obvious reasons arely staircase Apr 2014 #75

Ding! Ding! Ding! Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #78

Some people confuse RT with flamingdem Apr 2014 #112

!!! Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #122

tee hee TMZ not TZM I mean flamingdem Apr 2014 #126

You are conflating the amount of people who have the channel on their cable box with the amount who stevenleser Apr 2014 #89

Because he is a traitor and then wanted to stop him from moving to someplace else? theboss Apr 2014 #127

A traitor? Could you post some confirmation of that claim? A link to a conviction sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #129

I didn't realize this was a court of law theboss Apr 2014 #137

So he's not a traitor, that was just 'poo flinging'. Thank you, that clears things up. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #138

Fact: She stole and disseminated classified data theboss Apr 2014 #139

Uh, no we don't. First Snowden is a HE not a SHE. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #140

Alex....For $500... HipChick Apr 2014 #2

Snowden was probably moved by Putin's actions in this story Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2014 #26

This ruins a perfectly good hate meme. nm rhett o rick Apr 2014 #6

I'm pretty sure that was the point :) Electric Monk Apr 2014 #8

The facts of this certainly ruined Republican Rep Rogers when he tried to push the lie that Snowden sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #48

Snowden's no "hero".. Cha Apr 2014 #64

lol@Terrorists AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #109

Yeah, think of all the terrorist attacks that he has enabled since the leaks progressoid Apr 2014 #134

Dude - don't you know that Snowden being a Russian spy is the ONE AND ONLY conspiracy djean111 Apr 2014 #7

I know it is crazy arely staircase Apr 2014 #40

"US secrets" - oh my stars! JackRiddler Apr 2014 #50

Of course it's crazy, which is why the only morons who have tried, and failed, to spread that lie sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #52

yeah he's the only one. every one else loves Snowden. nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #54

Uh, no, I already said he's not the only one. The far right almost unanimously want to believe. sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #62

How about he 'might be a US Spy that the US managed to force into Russia so he could sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #174

what I posted is not a CT arely staircase Apr 2014 #176

Thank you. Just want you to know that I appreciate your OP. scarletwoman Apr 2014 #9

Looks like the bat signal went out. They are here en masse. nt Mojorabbit Apr 2014 #36

Glad I hit a nerve. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #51

So that friendly meeting at the Russian consulate in Hong Kong never happened? Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #12

Would you expect him to travel through Russia... JackRiddler Apr 2014 #18

To be honest, I'd have expected him to already be where he wanted to defect to Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #24

I think he was. I also think he wasn't smart enough jeff47 Apr 2014 #35

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #13

Putin Admits Early Snowden Contact ProSense Apr 2014 #14

Let them stick to their little bullshit meme.. snowden fans need something to cling to Cha Apr 2014 #17

Excellent documentation. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #39

Ah...those, for Snowden-fans, inconvenient truths...OR... BlueCaliDem Apr 2014 #29

Some more good ones: Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #125

except he did Egnever Apr 2014 #15

Snowden needs a map then. With a beefy compass. Whisp Apr 2014 #16

Don't you love the "he didn't have a choice!!!111!11!" routine? Of course he had a choice. stevenleser Apr 2014 #19

He also chose to leak the info the way he did � publically brush Apr 2014 #53

Perhaps you have a map you can share? Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #96

k/r 840high Apr 2014 #21

So you're saying Russia has made him a prisoner? randome Apr 2014 #22

This goes without saying, but the OP won't say it. joshcryer Apr 2014 #82

I need to add this to my list. randome Apr 2014 #104

So you are claiming that Snowden can exit Russia... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #165

"He's certainly not in a good position to criticize the Russian government..." ProSense Apr 2014 #23

Excellent quoting there... JackRiddler Apr 2014 #41

K&R bobduca Apr 2014 #25

LOL liberal N proud Apr 2014 #27

He must be getting use to the food by now. Historic NY Apr 2014 #28

IOW, Snowden tore his life apart without a plan BeyondGeography Apr 2014 #30

Do you take veterans seriously? JackRiddler Apr 2014 #42

Has a veteran ever wound up in Russia because he feared losing Internet access? BeyondGeography Apr 2014 #85

I forgot about that statement flamingdem Apr 2014 #114

Heroes generally do tear their own lives apart for the benefit of others. I'm not sure we here in sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #69

He should have thought of maintaining JackRiddler Apr 2014 #144

Yes, this country, imho, doesn't deserve people like him or Greenwald or anyone else who has sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #146

Sure he did. Igel Apr 2014 #31

Yes, you would have chosen the Hole over Moscow? JackRiddler Apr 2014 #43

American Prison vs. Russia. Maedhros Apr 2014 #47

No, he did not choose Russia... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #166

Good thing Snowden didn't hitch a ride with the President of Bolivia. stone space Apr 2014 #32

What was he waiting for? BklnDem75 Apr 2014 #33

Nonsense. Ecuador... JackRiddler Apr 2014 #45

so who made him go to China? arely staircase Apr 2014 #37

How do you know he didn't plan that path from the beginning? If he had, it wouldn't pnwmom Apr 2014 #38

O mi gahd! JackRiddler Apr 2014 #46

Right. And Russia has never manipulated Americans into spying. n/t pnwmom Apr 2014 #65

Why the insults? joshcryer Apr 2014 #83

Because OP knows the facts don't back up their memes. No one forced Snowden to do anything up stevenleser Apr 2014 #90

Russia was to have been a stopover... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #167

so who made him go to china? nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #177

Non-responsive. n/t ljm2002 Apr 2014 #183

it is quite relevant to your post. arely staircase Apr 2014 #185

Didn't you know? AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #113

That's Hannity level material AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #111

Strictly speaking, a passport is not required for international travel: struggle4progress Apr 2014 #56

Hong Kong had refused to turn him over to the US but made no offer to allow him to remain in Hong sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #66

You're not making any sense. There's simply no right to travel under the protection of the US struggle4progress Apr 2014 #70

He was not fleeing 'justice' he was fleeing INJUSTICE. See the US record on the sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #76

Thank you for your continued efforts on this issue... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #169

Now now SFP treestar Apr 2014 #100

Hong Kong was the mistake. Not Russia. joshcryer Apr 2014 #81

He's made multiple mistakes, many of which seem to flow from his libertarian tendencies, struggle4progress Apr 2014 #87

The passport is not the main issue... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #168

Perhaps, but one thing for certain if that was so he would have gone to the country that he wanted lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #57

Ha. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #59

History was already written. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #61

Simple solution. Give him back his passport and let him go where he pleases. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #68

Propose it to the State Department. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #71

He doesn't need a passport to enter any country that is willing to take him. pnwmom Apr 2014 #148

The US has not seized his passport: presumably he is still in possession of those papers. The US has struggle4progress Apr 2014 #74

Oh gee. 99Forever Apr 2014 #95

Hey, revocation only counts JackRiddler Apr 2014 #118

Why do I have about the same amount of ... 99Forever Apr 2014 #161

ironically the only country that would take him is the US. NT arely staircase Apr 2014 #79

Again the rules do no apply to him treestar Apr 2014 #93

Any of the countries that have offered him asylum could take him without pnwmom Apr 2014 #147

Sure, that would be easy as pie... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #170

It would be completely up to Russia and Venezuela, or whatever other pnwmom Apr 2014 #172

But the US seems to be able... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #182

And you think that the US spy system in Russia is so amazing pnwmom Apr 2014 #189

And you think the US government wouldn't try... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #190

I think the whole trip to Hong Kong was just a charade pnwmom Apr 2014 #191

It's your prerogative to think that, of course... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #192

I have as much evidence as you do for your theory. pnwmom Apr 2014 #193

What, exactly, is "my theory"?? ljm2002 Apr 2014 #194

I'm pretty sure he did choose. Drunken Irishman Apr 2014 #73

There are five to ten decisions he chose to make that got him where he is. All choices. stevenleser Apr 2014 #92

True, he could have kept domestic spying a secret AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #115

Some level of domestic spying was known, was it not? I take it you knew about FISA before this? stevenleser Apr 2014 #124

Hi Steve DURHAM D Apr 2014 #179

I knew it happened under Bush, yes AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #201

FISA has been on the books since Carter. And we don't know one way or the other stevenleser Apr 2014 #202

I think this is obvious. joshcryer Apr 2014 #80

So much mixing up of reality and your speculation! JackRiddler Apr 2014 #97

I say there may have been. joshcryer Apr 2014 #149

As if you'd ever contemplate doing anything so courageous. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #155

You don't know me or my activism. joshcryer Apr 2014 #158

I see how you treat this case. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #164

What contempt? joshcryer Apr 2014 #173

and in other news the moon is made of cheese! whistler162 Apr 2014 #86

Except he did...nt SidDithers Apr 2014 #88

Yes he did treestar Apr 2014 #91

O/U for :rofl: emoticons on this thread is 27.5 Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #94

What's O/U? JackRiddler Apr 2014 #98

Over/Under - a gambling term Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #99

Oh of course! Sorry... JackRiddler Apr 2014 #101

God that is brilliant. Puglover Apr 2014 #135

I thought about suggesting it in ATA a long time ago Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #136

But then we would never ever see Sid again... DU's best writer Dragonfli Apr 2014 #204

There are nine including two by you and one by Jack Riddler. Guess you were wrong. nt stevenleser Apr 2014 #199

The truth. 99Forever Apr 2014 #102

I don't buy it. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #103

Recommend... KoKo Apr 2014 #105

If Ecuador wants him and he wants to go, their embassy could issue him travel documents. tarheelsunc Apr 2014 #106

Even after the Bolivia thing ? jakeXT Apr 2014 #107

There's no way for the US to know who is on an Aeroflot plane flamingdem Apr 2014 #119

But that's not the story we want to believe! randome Apr 2014 #121

Every bit of imperialism has its excuse. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #145

"was never proven to be an operation"... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #171

There was never solid proof. Evo used it as an opportunity flamingdem Apr 2014 #187

"Nothing to see here"... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #188

This was already litigated on DU flamingdem Apr 2014 #195

We agree on one thing... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #196

In other words you have done no research flamingdem Apr 2014 #198

What a steaming, condescending load... n/t ljm2002 Apr 2014 #200

Yes, he was parked there by the US, the question is why /nt jakeXT Apr 2014 #108

Good question. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #116

He was able to leave via Cuba to Ecuador or Venezuela flamingdem Apr 2014 #117

If Snowden wanted to go to South America Adrahil Apr 2014 #197

He's trapped in Russia isn't he? nilesobek Apr 2014 #123

Oh Oh... bvar22 Apr 2014 #130

I tried to "Like" your post! JackRiddler Apr 2014 #131

When Putin is done with him he will be sent to a country willing to take him. NCTraveler Apr 2014 #132

there you go again... grasswire Apr 2014 #153

With Putins latest little play with Snowden.... NCTraveler Apr 2014 #180

"...no one at this point can see it any other way." 99Forever Apr 2014 #181

If you do a search you will find there are flights from Hawaii to Ecuador, there was not any need Thinkingabout Apr 2014 #156

Arrrrrrrrrgh get the story straight... JackRiddler Apr 2014 #157

Arrrrrrrrrgh get the story straight Thinkingabout Apr 2014 #159

Yeah, he should have flown from HK to Ecuador via Hawaii. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #160

He had already outed himself before he flew to Moscow. Thinkingabout Apr 2014 #162

Where do these talking points come from? JackRiddler Apr 2014 #163

Simple, Snowden has put himself where he is, his choice, he may not have thought Thinkingabout Apr 2014 #178

He made his bed, he can lay on it. Beacool Apr 2014 #175

Well said. nt Zorra Apr 2014 #184

But his girlfriend danced on a pole! DirkGently Apr 2014 #186

oops bump JackRiddler Apr 2014 #203

& oops bump JackRiddler May 2014 #205