General Discussion

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

18. It IS a consent issue.

Fri Apr 18, 2014, 11:02 AM

Apr 2014

But not from that end.

It's a consent issue because, and I've seen a couple numbers, but, some ridiculously high proportion of the pitiful few that are actually prosecuted and convicted, don't believe that what they did was rape.

Which implies some blinding level of willful ignorance, or they fundamentally do not understand consent.

So too for the university staff that aren't willing to 'brand someone' a rapist. They must have some trouble with the idea of consent, because if you DO understand consent, rape isn't really even a judgment call, it's a Boolean proposition. Yes/no. The grey area shrinks precipitously.

So, all parties involved, including the university staff could apparently use some remedial education on what the blue fuck CONSENT means. The rest seems like it should fall into place, yes?

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Nonconsensual sex: How colleges rebranded rape [View all] Ohio Joe Apr 2014 OP

A rose by any other name dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #1

and sexual assault is fairly close linguistically to sexy assault Supersedeas Apr 2014 #7

Language matters. MineralMan Apr 2014 #2

he forced her to have sex. that, we see a lot. no. he raped her. i agree mineral. nt seabeyond Apr 2014 #4

That and sex with intoxicated women. MineralMan Apr 2014 #5

God, I remember the wheedling, whining, and pressuring. wryter2000 Apr 2014 #9

Yes. Giving in in the face of pressure is something MineralMan Apr 2014 #16

That long-ago girlfriend . . . Brigid Apr 2014 #20

Well, she was pretty awesome on her own. MineralMan Apr 2014 #46

this is the kind of thing that mopinko Apr 2014 #25

You're a great example of how it can go right erronis Apr 2014 #35

Love this: CrispyQ Apr 2014 #11

And Yes! is lots more fun, too. MineralMan Apr 2014 #17

+1000 heaven05 Apr 2014 #21

Then you have radio shock jocks like Tom Leykis who advocate getting women drunk R B Garr Apr 2014 #55

Guys like that are assholes, plain and simple. MineralMan Apr 2014 #62

Leykis is a pig who hates women, liberalhistorian Apr 2014 #69

The mystery is chervilant Apr 2014 #71

Well, yes, indeed, liberalhistorian Apr 2014 #82

This. nt redqueen Apr 2014 #83

so many men, continuously talk so ugly about women, too often. what would happen in mens world seabeyond Apr 2014 #78

If the word doesn't exist, then there is no such thing (semantic sarcasm) Tansy_Gold Apr 2014 #43

bad enough, guilty enough, to kick off campus, yet not use criminal system and send to jail. seabeyond Apr 2014 #3

Sadly... Even when found "responsible" only 10-25% get kicked off campus... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #6

He should edit what he said. CrispyQ Apr 2014 #12

And by not kicking them out of school and ... aggiesal Apr 2014 #14

It took 25 women showing up in the dean of students' office to get one off our campus. Gormy Cuss Apr 2014 #15

If a football player is found guilty lark Apr 2014 #30

I'm not sure how one relates to the other Sgent Apr 2014 #60

Wow CFLDem Apr 2014 #8

Is one of the take-aways of this: Victims should pursue civil and criminal charges with law KurtNYC Apr 2014 #10

I would think yes... But I'm not certain it is so simple Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #13

They must, yes. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #19

Unfortunately it's somewhat more complicated than that: LeftyMom Apr 2014 #22

It IS a consent issue. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #18

Thanks for posting this despite some DUers expressing their "exasperation at posts discussing rape." redqueen Apr 2014 #23

I remember marions ghost Apr 2014 #24

I am an old woman (52) etherealtruth Apr 2014 #27

That's horrific, but not sadly, not so surprising YoungDemCA Apr 2014 #61

Right marions ghost Apr 2014 #66

I thought this happened because rape often has a narrow legal definition aikoaiko Apr 2014 #26

Good term. Non-consensual sex is broader encompassing more crimes than classic "rape". Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #28

Is it also 'good' that they are doing it to cover up rapes? Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #32

That's opinion. I'm not sure it would be supported by careful studies. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #34

Since schools are working to hide the numbers, the number of rapes is not known... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #39

Disagree lark Apr 2014 #33

You miss the boat. Non consensual sex is much more than vaginal or anal penetration. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #38

Again disagree lark Apr 2014 #41

A lot of times the law doesn't call it "rape" either davidn3600 Apr 2014 #44

We are talking about changing the name to cover up rape... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #49

Educated people (LE included) understand more than just four letter words. nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #45

Are you being deliberately obtuse? chervilant Apr 2014 #52

Obtuse? Surely you realize assault is non-consensual & rape does involve sex or attempted sex. nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #57

You seem woefully misinformed about rape, chervilant Apr 2014 #58

Be smart & explain yourself. If it doesn't involve a sexual aspect, then it's battery, not rape. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #59

'We,' Bernie? chervilant Apr 2014 #67

Rape is sexual assault (battery, actually) & it's primarily a power/violence thing. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #68

Pedantic repetition does not make you right. chervilant Apr 2014 #70

I asked for help but you won't address the points or answer the questions asked of you. So be it. nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #72

Making justifications for schools covering up for rapists is not asking for help Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #73

Nothing I wrote was a justification for covering up rapists. NOTHING. nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #74

Yes... All of it is Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #75

NOTHING. Covering up rape is not justified. You are confusing me with other posters. nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #76

No... No confusion... You said it was 'good' that they change the terms... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #77

The language is good. The coverup is bad, wrong, evil, and is independent of language. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #79

No... You continue to ignore that the change is exactly to cover up rapes... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #80

I DO NOT JUSTIFY NOT CALLING RAPE A RAPE. That is the administration's fault, not the language. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #81

Non-sense. You are defending the change when you know why it is being changed... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #84

You don't want enlighten or educate (as asked for). You just want to argue Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #86

The article is clear and I am as well... That you ignore it, is your choice... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #88

I don't defend schools protecting rapists. I've said it before.You can make up stuff all you want.nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #89

Ask yourself two questions... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #90

The first question is way too simplistic. It easier for you to attack if it is simplistic. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #91

Not if I'm the one being raped or someone attempts to rape me ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #85

Exactly. It is primarily violence, but there is a sexual aspect even if it is not sexy. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #87

"rape" is in scare quotes? YoungDemCA Apr 2014 #64

It is quoted because we are discussing definitions and terminology. Only you are scared. nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2014 #65

Perhaps murder is "nonconsensual third party suicide"? nt Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2014 #29

haha was gonna say the same thing! bettydavis Apr 2014 #36

+1,000,000 lark Apr 2014 #42

I was listening to the lawyer of tje Heisman trophy talking about false accusations, Thinkingabout Apr 2014 #31

but. . there is NO war on women. niyad Apr 2014 #37

Maybe some of these enabling universities need a BIG class action lawsuit. hlthe2b Apr 2014 #40

Part of it is Clery Act fallout. Xithras Apr 2014 #47

Denial is a terrible thing, no matter if it's well intentioned or not. AverageJoe90 Apr 2014 #48

Prosecution needs to be taken completely out of the hands of colleges LadyHawkAZ Apr 2014 #50

And, chervilant Apr 2014 #51

Should, yes LadyHawkAZ Apr 2014 #53

Excellent point. chervilant Apr 2014 #54

K&R ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #56

Anyone responsible for sexual assault should be in jail. nt rrneck Apr 2014 #63