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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
3. Yup,
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:12 PM
Apr 2014
UPDATE, April 18, 11:00 a.m.: Snowden unrepentantly defended himself in a commentary the Guardian published on Friday. He claims he was trying to force Putin on the record about Russian state surveillance, and that journalists can now follow-up on his answer. This reasoning demonstrates that Snowden is either tragically, improbably naive about the role he played on Russian state television, or that he is extremely disingenuous. The bottom line is that Snowden helped Putin manipulate his Russian audience, most of whom will never see the sort of follow-up accountability journalism on Putin’s answer that one would expect in a liberal democracy...


...and I go with "extremely disingenuous."

In his op-ed, Snowden tries to hype the importance of his question by linking to a Daily Beast piece that calls him out for being a tool. From his op-ed:

<...>

The investigative journalist Andrei Soldatov, perhaps the single most prominent critic of Russia's surveillance apparatus (and someone who has repeatedly criticised me in the past year), described my question as "extremely important for Russia". It could, he said, "lift a de facto ban on public conversations about state eavesdropping."

From the piece linked to in that paragaph:

“I think it was ridiculous,” says Mark Galeotti, an expert on Russia’s security services who is also a professor at New York University. Andrei Soldatov, a Russian journalist who has broken major stories on the Russian intelligence service, the FSB, and is a Daily Beast contributor, was only slightly more charitable. “Putin never directly lies, he just tells half truths and his answer was a half truth,” he said. “In terms of what is going on inside the country, he was not correct. We have all signs of mass surveillance. My view is Russian surveillance is much more intrusive than what you have in the United States.”

<...>

Galeotti says he found the display of Snowden’s question for Putin on eavesdropping to be depressing. “I believed he was an honest man who made some stupid choices,” says Galeotti. “But in this case he was doing what was in his handler’s interests.”

“We have to think of two Snowdens,” Galeotti tells The Daily Beast. “There was the original whistleblower who thought he was doing something good for the world. Now there is the Snowden—to put it crassly—who is bought and paid for entirely by the Russians. The Russians are not altruistic, if they are protecting him they are doing so because there are things he can do to repay them.”

<...>

Soldatov said Snowden’s question could lift a de facto ban in Russia on public conversations about the state’s eavesdropping. “Before this question both Snowden and Greenwald refused to talk about surveillance in Russia,” he said. “Now we can ask Greenwald about this. Now we can start the debate. This is extremely important for Russia. I suspect Kremlin propaganda wanted to play Snowden, nevertheless this was a positive thing because it helps us to start the debate about the mass surveillance in Russia.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/17/sorry-snowden-putin-lied-to-you-about-his-surveillance-state-and-made-you-a-pawn-of-it.htm

Soldatov was being generous. He basically said, yeah, Snowden was used, but people are talking about what happened.

The fact is that nothing came out of this charade except a debate about Putin's and Snowden's character.

A more direct question (which likely couldn't happen) mentioning a specific program or incident would have sparked a debate inside Russia. As it stands, even Soldatov admits there is no debate in Russian. I could understand why, as a journalist, he would want to use this as an opportunity to spark a debate. A staged event and a lame-ass question isn't going to do it, and neither is Snowden's op-ed, which is just another lame attempt to cover his ass after a humiliating event.

In summary: Putin's show promoted his propaganda to its intended audience, Russians. Snowden's op-ed attempts to spin it to the rest of the world.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yes to this BeyondGeography Apr 2014 #1
Fuck the washington post RobertEarl Apr 2014 #78
Awww, Eddie's hanging curve ball to Vlad has given all the Snowboys and girls a sadz BeyondGeography Apr 2014 #93
"All the Snowboys and girls a sadz". Can you believe all the hissyfits and covering of ears? Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #131
Outstanding.. snowden was play acting.. setting it up for Pooter. Sucking Russia and of course Cha Apr 2014 #79
Snowden got both Putin and Obama to lie RobertEarl Apr 2014 #82
haha good cartoon treestar Apr 2014 #88
Thinking he's not through yet .. Singing For his Sanctuary. :( Cha Apr 2014 #90
Lol.. check this out.. Cha Apr 2014 #91
Snowden is an idiot itsrobert Apr 2014 #2
You MISSED THE LATEST! KoKo Apr 2014 #43
Yep. .... and .... the authoritarians get their asses handed to them again. GoneFishin Apr 2014 #54
Anyone else get the feeling he might be wearing out his welcome in Russia? Rstrstx Apr 2014 #86
What a crock! Snowden's appearance on Russian television is what was seen by pnwmom Apr 2014 #128
after the fact? really? the article addressed this!! uponit7771 Apr 2014 #134
He knew greenwald would get on twitter to defend.. Yeah, he did but I'm hearing "he got Cha Apr 2014 #81
A few pushback tweets @ greenwald.. Cha Apr 2014 #87
1. Those were before Snowden's op/ed. Hissyspit Apr 2014 #105
#1 Eddie's OP is bullshit and #2 Who cares if it were before.. Glenn is always full of shit.. Cha Apr 2014 #110
I know. Phlem Apr 2014 #108
Yup, ProSense Apr 2014 #3
Maybe Snowden is going to "reveal" Russia's surveillance methods. Thinkingabout Apr 2014 #4
Obama was asked if the US spied on its citizens. He said No. RobertEarl Apr 2014 #80
Hell no, it does not jerk me off about Obama. Thinkingabout Apr 2014 #94
Completely agree... Spazito Apr 2014 #5
You're "getting desperate". You're a "Snowden basher". "Putin = Obama"! "Revolution"!!!!! Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #6
"Authoritarian" "Apologist for the NSA".. How am I doin?.. Cha Apr 2014 #83
You got the hang of it, my dear Cha. If you ain't kissin' GG, Snowie & Putin's asses... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #115
Exactly, Tarheel.. If we aren't betwitched and bamboozled by Eddie Cha Apr 2014 #121
I'm loving the tweet. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #123
I know.. is it brilliant Cha Apr 2014 #124
DU rec...nt SidDithers Apr 2014 #7
Everyday the Snowden haters have a new talking point. former9thward Apr 2014 #8
I am neither a Snowden hater nor a Snowden fanboi Cirque du So-What Apr 2014 #9
They have become a parody of themselves in their haste to... bvar22 Apr 2014 #10
What utter nonsense. ProSense Apr 2014 #15
What UTTER BS. bvar22 Apr 2014 #18
LOL! ProSense Apr 2014 #19
flap, flap, flappity flap. grasswire Apr 2014 #25
Lame, lame and more lame. ProSense Apr 2014 #27
if so, you will have wasted hell of a lot of time bashing a nobody. nt grasswire Apr 2014 #39
Putin's tool. n/t ProSense Apr 2014 #41
Yeah, because Russia and accountability go hand in hand. joshcryer Apr 2014 #38
I suspect there may be a WMD somewhere too. L0oniX Apr 2014 #45
Damn ...that is some strong shit! +a zillion L0oniX Apr 2014 #44
That last point is the very point... Chan790 Apr 2014 #52
Snowden put himself out there with this Russian TV appearance JI7 Apr 2014 #13
Prosense off tonight? nt Logical Apr 2014 #47
Obsessed? n/t ProSense Apr 2014 #55
LOL, coming from the person who has posted 10,000 Snowden posts. Who is Obsessed?? nt Logical Apr 2014 #57
The person who did this: ProSense Apr 2014 #58
This proves you might be more obsessed.... Logical Apr 2014 #59
LOL! ProSense Apr 2014 #60
LOL, Go self kick some more posts that no one wants to read! nt Logical Apr 2014 #61
OK ProSense Apr 2014 #62
I was gonna say.... Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #100
LOL Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #133
as an antidote to the gum-flappers here... grasswire Apr 2014 #14
Only if you already agree with "The Guardian". What other result were you expecting? Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #17
you are hell bent on discrediting The Guardian and its readers. grasswire Apr 2014 #24
I'm "discrediting the Guardian and its readers"? Far from it. I'm merely pointing out... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #114
What is with the running around DU telling everyone to read the Guardian comments section? Number23 Apr 2014 #29
So true. Who gives a shit about the haters in the Times and the Post comments? elias49 Apr 2014 #69
So the fans in the Guardian comments section are more important than the "haters" at the NY Times Number23 Apr 2014 #73
priceless isn't it? nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #77
Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #92
What is it with you telling everyone one to read Twitter responses? Hissyspit Apr 2014 #102
That was tired and absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe the crap Snowden's fans are having to sink Number23 Apr 2014 #111
Oh really? Hissyspit Apr 2014 #112
Even sadder, needless and more pointless than its predecessor. Number23 Apr 2014 #119
This message was self-deleted by its author Hissyspit Apr 2014 #103
I know, right? They want us to read a foreign newspaper's "comment section" to... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #113
Absolutely right. More than one person has said over the last few days that they are ASTOUNDED Number23 Apr 2014 #120
It's an EPIC FAIL of a PR campaign. Snowie's support is pretty much confined to... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #122
Looks like the "govt paid trolls" had the right measure of this bit of fuckwittery Number23 Apr 2014 #125
Yes they did, and the "Koch paid trolls" are swinging wildly. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #129
I just went over there and your comment is not borne out by an examination of the remarks. MADem Apr 2014 #127
hey, if I went and made propaganda for the Russians I would expect some criticism nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #16
Yes, but the talking point before was that Putin had Snowden hidden somewhere. former9thward Apr 2014 #20
quizzes? arely staircase Apr 2014 #21
I have always found that people who use lol and rofl in responses have lost the argument. former9thward Apr 2014 #22
or alternatively arely staircase Apr 2014 #23
So you won't mind if I say lol. elias49 Apr 2014 #70
+1 Marr Apr 2014 #64
Some of them seem like they get paid for all the anti-Snowden stuff they post. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #67
Of course some are. The web is perfect to spread authoritarian propaganda. And cheap too. GoneFishin Apr 2014 #97
Er, no, it's Eddie who makes it about himself treestar Apr 2014 #89
you going to comment on Simon from VICE being taken by Russian supporting assholes? snooper2 Apr 2014 #132
I go for extremely disingenuous. sheshe2 Apr 2014 #11
Snowden may not be a "Russian spy" jazzimov Apr 2014 #12
That last paragraph nails it Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #26
I just posted this in response to another thread. He is being eaten alive Number23 Apr 2014 #28
Did I accidentally go to Free Republic? Dopers_Greed Apr 2014 #30
No shit. It's an epidemic. elias49 Apr 2014 #71
Snowden Pimping for Putin.. yeah, that is rwinger. Cha Apr 2014 #84
Irony ellie50 Apr 2014 #31
YAwn ..yea that's right ...what he revealed means nothing because he is a (take your choice). L0oniX Apr 2014 #32
Snowden, yawn. . the darling of the Tea Party B Calm Apr 2014 #33
And the Cliven Bundy lovin' Oathkeepers, but they're probably the same people. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #116
Does this mean the NSA has stopped it's unConstitutional... 99Forever Apr 2014 #34
who now? bobduca Apr 2014 #37
The real cowards clg311 Apr 2014 #35
You haven't been here long enough to be namecalling, or have you been here before? Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #117
Fuck this crap. MNBrewer Apr 2014 #36
Stephen Stromberg... Hahahahahahahahahaha... WillyT Apr 2014 #40
What's even more hilarious is watching people spin Putin using Snowden as a tool as ProSense Apr 2014 #42
Ironic... 'Profiles In Courage' Was A Book Written By A War Hero, Who Saved The Men Of His PT-Boat WillyT Apr 2014 #46
Was he also Putin's tool? ProSense Apr 2014 #48
Snowball is no Jack Kennedy. ucrdem Apr 2014 #49
I think we can agree on something else.. elias49 Apr 2014 #72
Snowden's just another grifter. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #50
Yeah, the Washington Post... Iraq War saber-rattlers. Hissyspit Apr 2014 #104
Doing this was at the very least naive and terrible decision-making alcibiades_mystery Apr 2014 #51
Snowden gave up everything in the interest of public disclosure. pa28 Apr 2014 #53
Snowden has become Russia's/Putin's useful idiot Blaukraut Apr 2014 #56
Psst-- the talking point has been updated. /nt Marr Apr 2014 #65
Putin is old KGB. He's using Snowden as a propaganda tool. Beacool Apr 2014 #75
Snowden is a tool. His supporters even moreso. BenzoDia Apr 2014 #63
They all get major points for spinning as fast as they can to rationalize eddie pimping for Cha Apr 2014 #85
Okay. So Snowden was on Russian tv. Big f'n deal. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #66
How much longer is this going to go on? randome Apr 2014 #95
I asked the swarm that very same question upthread. 99Forever Apr 2014 #96
But ... but ... boxes ... and Pootee Poote ... and I'm rubber, your glue. GoneFishin Apr 2014 #98
recccc flamingdem Apr 2014 #68
This guy has become Putin's tool. Beacool Apr 2014 #74
I'm going for the later.. I've seen how eddie works.. Cha Apr 2014 #76
He's just ingratiaing himself with his host, Progressive dog Apr 2014 #99
HOLY SHIT! Phlem Apr 2014 #101
Snowden's question and op-ed were attempts to whitewash Russian spying by equating it to the NSA. ProSense Apr 2014 #106
I wish kpete Apr 2014 #107
Don't think so poorly of yourself.. Cha Apr 2014 #109
Why? Remember this? He only got religion post-Obama. Hmmmm..... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #118
HAIL HYDRA! whatchamacallit Apr 2014 #126
Seems to be more column inches devoted to gossip columns about him than the policies he illuminated LanternWaste Apr 2014 #130
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