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(146,627 posts)
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 12:08 PM Apr 2014

Rape Culture: One way to say yes, many ways to say no. [View all]

A lot of men are confused, it seems. A lack of empathy seems to push its way into situations where two people are exploring the potential sexual side of a relationship. An inability to put oneself into the position of the other person seems to get in the way of understanding some really simple stuff. There's really only one way that sexual activity is OK, and that is if there is conscious, enthusiastic consent on the part of BOTH parties.

Yes! means yes. Pretty much everything else means NO! Yes! can be spoken or unspoken. But if it's unspoken, it needs to be very clear that the other person is eager to continue whatever the two of you are doing and may even be taking the lead. Silence or physical resistance is never Yes! Lots of things aren't Yes! and if it's not Yes! it's no.

Spoken No.
"No" means no, no matter how it is said.
"Stop" means no.
"Cut that out" means no.
"I'm uncomfortable about this" means no.
"Let's take this a little slower" means no.
"I wish you wouldn't do that right now" means no.
"I'm not really ready for this yet" means no.
"You're pushing me" means no.
"I don't know if I want to do this" means no.
"I give up." means no.
"Whatever. I'm not arguing any more" means no.
"Take me home" means no.
Slurred speech means no.
Essentially, anything said that is not enthusiastic approval means no.
If you've been whining, pleading, arguing, or using any psychological strategies, it's no.

Unspoken No.
Semi-consciousness means no.
Stumbling and falling due to intoxication means no.
Sleeping means no.
Pushing away means no.
Suddenly becoming stiff and uncooperative means no.
Going completely limp and unresponsive means no.
Withdrawal from what's going on means no.
Physical resistance of any kind means no.
Blank, checked-out eyes mean no.
A bored, apathetic reaction means no.
If you're at all unsure of whether you should keep on with what's going on, it's probably no.

If you have any question about whether there is an enthusiastic "Yes!" it's probably no. Empathy means being aware of the other person and how that person is reacting to what is going on. It's putting yourself in the other person's position and asking yourself whether you'd be behaving or speaking in that way if you meant "Yes!" If you're not sure it's "Yes!" it's probably no.

How should you react to any of the things that are "No?" Just stop. Back up. Talk to the other person and find out what's going on with that person. Find out what the other person is thinking about what's happening. Just stop. Put your empathy hat on and back off. Ask questions and accept the answers. Listen. Ask. Be a caring human being.

Bottom line: If it's "no," continuing is sexual assault, at best, or rape, at worst. Don't do that. Don't be that guy.

81 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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~kick! CrispyQ Apr 2014 #1
Thanks for the kick! MineralMan Apr 2014 #2
I don't think we're teaching empathy MineralMan Apr 2014 #3
Well, I never had much to do with the "cool crowd." MineralMan Apr 2014 #31
I know that rape and sexual assault are about power, but it also happens because LuvNewcastle Apr 2014 #4
Well, my opinion about that is that if you're MineralMan Apr 2014 #5
Recreational sex isn't really my style, either. LuvNewcastle Apr 2014 #8
I'm OK with it, or was in my younger years. MineralMan Apr 2014 #13
Thank you for posting this. K&R Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #6
And thank you for replying to it. MineralMan Apr 2014 #11
Kicked and recommended! In_The_Wind Apr 2014 #7
k&r, uppityperson Apr 2014 #9
K & R n/t Aerows Apr 2014 #10
Thanks for the K&Rs! MineralMan Apr 2014 #12
What a fantastic way you laid out this op mineral. Nt seabeyond Apr 2014 #14
Thank you. I've been thinking about posting something MineralMan Apr 2014 #15
A friend told me the boys at her son's college, in orientation, Bette Noir Apr 2014 #16
Good for that college. MineralMan Apr 2014 #19
Ha! I love that! Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #76
KnR with naught more to add other than thank you. chknltl Apr 2014 #17
More: How to know if it's "Yes!" MineralMan Apr 2014 #18
Very nice, thank you. MuseRider Apr 2014 #20
I agree with much but disagree with the part about "whining" etc. Jim Lane Apr 2014 #21
Examples 1 & 3 certainly don't sound like rape scenarios. But if the guy's pushy all the time then nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #22
I disagree. What I wrote is the OPPOSITE of minimizing rape. Jim Lane Apr 2014 #24
Stop minimizing rape, Jim. CFLDem Apr 2014 #27
Let's look at this from another perspective: chervilant Apr 2014 #25
Example 1 is coercion, pure and simple intaglio Apr 2014 #26
Poor examples, all. chervilant Apr 2014 #29
Have you ever heard anyone talk TBF Apr 2014 #28
Real-life conversations are indeed much more nuanced and ambiguous. Jim Lane Apr 2014 #61
I think if you turn TBF Apr 2014 #64
Trust me, I wasn't offering Example 1 as relationship advice. Jim Lane Apr 2014 #67
Nope, I'm not counseling anything other than TBF Apr 2014 #78
Your first example is coercive. MineralMan Apr 2014 #30
I disagree. She said no and instead of respecting that he pressed her on it. If she says no IT'S NO. redqueen Apr 2014 #32
I understand what you're saying, and tend to agree. MineralMan Apr 2014 #35
Didn't read it. She said no. redqueen Apr 2014 #39
No is a complete sentence. KitSileya Apr 2014 #40
"Treat anyone's no as negotiable, and you are enabling rape culture, pure and simple." <- BOOM redqueen Apr 2014 #43
But asking why someone is uncomfortable isn't necessarily enabling rape culture. msanthrope Apr 2014 #77
Follow-up question for redqueen and KitSileya Jim Lane Apr 2014 #63
It's not necessarily a crime, or provable as one at least, but that doesn't make it okay to keep nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #65
We're talking ethics here. KitSileya Apr 2014 #75
The "was this rape" question involves both law and ethics. Jim Lane Apr 2014 #81
What if the athlete says it in a slightly different manner? Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #33
It's still coercive. MineralMan Apr 2014 #34
Maybe I'm confusing two different things here Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #36
Nope. It's still coercive. MineralMan Apr 2014 #37
So how does one tactfully say they don't want to be in a relationship with no sex? Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #38
Nobody is obligated to continue dating anyone. MineralMan Apr 2014 #41
Right, and that's why I think this is NOT coercive. Jim Lane Apr 2014 #62
Why are you spending so much energy debating where the "line" is anyway? nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #66
The OP was thought-provoking and I shared some of the thoughts it provoked. Jim Lane Apr 2014 #69
I do not want to date you noiretextatique Apr 2014 #42
I think "I do not want to date you" is a shitty way to break up with someone Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #46
Yours is closer to respectable. redqueen Apr 2014 #47
Well no, he should find someone who has a similar timeframe about sex Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #48
He's clearly got a problem waiting for a woman to be ready. redqueen Apr 2014 #49
Well I don't agree that it's a problem, but... Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #50
no it isn't qazplm Apr 2014 #51
Oh, yes it is. MineralMan Apr 2014 #52
can you cite Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #53
What criminal code? MineralMan Apr 2014 #54
so basically you're just a opining Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #55
I'm having trouble understanding your reply. MineralMan Apr 2014 #56
fixed Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #57
Sexual assault can be defined in law or in MineralMan Apr 2014 #58
I think your op would be more accurate amd better Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #59
OK. Well, thanks for your feedback. MineralMan Apr 2014 #60
So if it's technically not rape by a strict legal definition, then it's a-okay? nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #70
hmmmm no cause she can Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #71
what a load noiretextatique Apr 2014 #44
whining for sex because, yeah, that is So Attractive ... NOT !!! Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #45
And if in doubt, you can always ask. Merely saying "Is this okay?" shouldn't ruin the moment. nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #68
Love the use of the "Don't be that guy" line. Ken Burch Apr 2014 #72
The chronology was the other way around. Jim Lane Apr 2014 #73
I didn't know that. n/t. Ken Burch Apr 2014 #74
How about, Brigid Apr 2014 #79
Pretty ugly situation that would require that, for sure. MineralMan Apr 2014 #80
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