Right, and that's why I think this is NOT coercive. (Reply #62)

In the discussion thread: Rape Culture: One way to say yes, many ways to say no. [View all]

Sun Apr 20, 2014, 05:46 PM

Jim Lane (11,175 posts)

62. Right, and that's why I think this is NOT coercive.

Examples of coercion would include "Have sex with me or I'll hit you" and "Have sex with me or I'll go on Facebook and post those photos from the party where you got drunk." She has a right not to be assaulted and a right not to have her privacy invaded. Therefore, he has a duty to respect those rights. For him to threaten to breach that duty would be coercion.

On the other hand, he has no duty to date her. He has a privilege to NOT date her if he so chooses -- for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all. I think we all agree with you that he has some growing up to do and that the woman is better off without him, but not dating her is his choice to make.

There's a difference between a carrot and a stick. Dangling a carrot is not coercion.

This was the point of my Example 2. Would you say that the lawn-care guy was coercive? I see the situations as parallel. Salesman: "I have no obligation to take care of your lawn. If you give me money I will and if you don't give me money I won't." Horny college kid: "I have no obligation to date you. If you give me sex I will and if you don't give me sex I won't."

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81 replies	Author	Time	Post
Rape Culture: One way to say yes, many ways to say no. [View all]	MineralMan	Apr 2014	OP
~kick!	CrispyQ	Apr 2014	#1
Thanks for the kick!	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#2
I don't think we're teaching empathy	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#3
BECUZ EMPUTHY IS FOR WUSSES AND MANGINAS DUHHHHHH	alp227	Apr 2014	#23
Well, I never had much to do with the "cool crowd."	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#31
I know that rape and sexual assault are about power, but it also happens because	LuvNewcastle	Apr 2014	#4
Well, my opinion about that is that if you're	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#5
Recreational sex isn't really my style, either.	LuvNewcastle	Apr 2014	#8
I'm OK with it, or was in my younger years.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#13
Thank you for posting this. K&R	Tuesday Afternoon	Apr 2014	#6
And thank you for replying to it.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#11
Kicked and recommended!	In_The_Wind	Apr 2014	#7
k&r,	uppityperson	Apr 2014	#9
K & R n/t	Aerows	Apr 2014	#10
Thanks for the K&Rs!	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#12
What a fantastic way you laid out this op mineral. Nt	seabeyond	Apr 2014	#14
Thank you. I've been thinking about posting something	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#15
A friend told me the boys at her son's college, in orientation,	Bette Noir	Apr 2014	#16
Good for that college.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#19
Ha! I love that!	Prophet 451	Apr 2014	#76
KnR with naught more to add other than thank you.	chknltl	Apr 2014	#17
More: How to know if it's "Yes!"	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#18
Very nice, thank you.	MuseRider	Apr 2014	#20
I agree with much but disagree with the part about "whining" etc.	Jim Lane	Apr 2014	#21
Examples 1 & 3 certainly don't sound like rape scenarios. But if the guy's pushy all the time then	nomorenomore08	Apr 2014	#22
I disagree. What I wrote is the OPPOSITE of minimizing rape.	Jim Lane	Apr 2014	#24
Stop minimizing rape, Jim.	CFLDem	Apr 2014	#27
Let's look at this from another perspective:	chervilant	Apr 2014	#25
Example 1 is coercion, pure and simple	intaglio	Apr 2014	#26
Poor examples, all.	chervilant	Apr 2014	#29
Have you ever heard anyone talk	TBF	Apr 2014	#28
Real-life conversations are indeed much more nuanced and ambiguous.	Jim Lane	Apr 2014	#61
I think if you turn	TBF	Apr 2014	#64
Trust me, I wasn't offering Example 1 as relationship advice.	Jim Lane	Apr 2014	#67
Nope, I'm not counseling anything other than	TBF	Apr 2014	#78
Your first example is coercive.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#30
I disagree. She said no and instead of respecting that he pressed her on it. If she says no IT'S NO.	redqueen	Apr 2014	#32
I understand what you're saying, and tend to agree.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#35
Didn't read it. She said no.	redqueen	Apr 2014	#39
No is a complete sentence.	KitSileya	Apr 2014	#40
"Treat anyone's no as negotiable, and you are enabling rape culture, pure and simple." <- BOOM	redqueen	Apr 2014	#43
But asking why someone is uncomfortable isn't necessarily enabling rape culture.	msanthrope	Apr 2014	#77
Follow-up question for redqueen and KitSileya	Jim Lane	Apr 2014	#63
It's not necessarily a crime, or provable as one at least, but that doesn't make it okay to keep	nomorenomore08	Apr 2014	#65
We're talking ethics here.	KitSileya	Apr 2014	#75
The "was this rape" question involves both law and ethics.	Jim Lane	Apr 2014	#81
What if the athlete says it in a slightly different manner?	Hippo_Tron	Apr 2014	#33
It's still coercive.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#34
Maybe I'm confusing two different things here	Hippo_Tron	Apr 2014	#36
Nope. It's still coercive.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#37
So how does one tactfully say they don't want to be in a relationship with no sex?	Hippo_Tron	Apr 2014	#38
Nobody is obligated to continue dating anyone.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#41
Right, and that's why I think this is NOT coercive.	Jim Lane	Apr 2014	#62
Why are you spending so much energy debating where the "line" is anyway?	nomorenomore08	Apr 2014	#66
The OP was thought-provoking and I shared some of the thoughts it provoked.	Jim Lane	Apr 2014	#69
I do not want to date you	noiretextatique	Apr 2014	#42
I think "I do not want to date you" is a shitty way to break up with someone	Hippo_Tron	Apr 2014	#46
Yours is closer to respectable.	redqueen	Apr 2014	#47
Well no, he should find someone who has a similar timeframe about sex	Hippo_Tron	Apr 2014	#48
He's clearly got a problem waiting for a woman to be ready.	redqueen	Apr 2014	#49
Well I don't agree that it's a problem, but...	Hippo_Tron	Apr 2014	#50
no it isn't	qazplm	Apr 2014	#51
Oh, yes it is.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#52
can you cite	Niceguy1	Apr 2014	#53
What criminal code?	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#54
so basically you're just a opining	Niceguy1	Apr 2014	#55
I'm having trouble understanding your reply.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#56
fixed	Niceguy1	Apr 2014	#57
Sexual assault can be defined in law or in	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#58
I think your op would be more accurate amd better	Niceguy1	Apr 2014	#59
OK. Well, thanks for your feedback.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#60
So if it's technically not rape by a strict legal definition, then it's a-okay?	nomorenomore08	Apr 2014	#70
hmmmm no cause she can	Niceguy1	Apr 2014	#71
what a load	noiretextatique	Apr 2014	#44
whining for sex because, yeah, that is So Attractive ... NOT !!!	Tuesday Afternoon	Apr 2014	#45
And if in doubt, you can always ask. Merely saying "Is this okay?" shouldn't ruin the moment.	nomorenomore08	Apr 2014	#68
Love the use of the "Don't be that guy" line.	Ken Burch	Apr 2014	#72
The chronology was the other way around.	Jim Lane	Apr 2014	#73
I didn't know that. n/t.	Ken Burch	Apr 2014	#74
How about,	Brigid	Apr 2014	#79
Pretty ugly situation that would require that, for sure.	MineralMan	Apr 2014	#80

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