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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
87. "For The Record:"
Mon Apr 21, 2014, 09:21 AM
Apr 2014

"I'm also glad that President Obama is happy to have a conversation about this: I presume this means he was going to tell us, anyway, so we could have this conversation."

...President Obama is doing more than having a "conversation."

Obama administration starts to implement changes to NSA phone records program

By Andrea Peterson

During his Jan. 17 speech on National Security Agency (NSA) surveillance, President Obama proposed a number of changes to the agency's bulk domestic phone records program. Thursday, the administration announced that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) approved a motion to start implementing some of those changes.

Specifically, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) said the court granted a motion to modify the most recent primary order authorizing the 215 phone records program to ensure that the metadata will only be queried after a judicial finding that there is a "reasonable, articulable suspicion" that the selection is associated with an international terrorist organization "absent a true emergency." In addition, the motion limited the query results to metadata within two hops of the selection term, rather than the prior three.

The FISC also ordered a classification review of the motions and the most recent primary order authorizing the program from January of this year, the government's motion to amend that order, and the court's order granting that motion, to be completed by Feb. 17. Once the review is completed, ODNI says the documents will "will be published as appropriate."

<...>

Laura W. Murphy, director of the ACLU's Washington Legislative Office mirrored his sentiments. "It's good to see that some of the president's reforms to the bulk collection program have been implemented," she said. "What we need now, though, is not tinkering around the edges but an end to bulk collection. If the president won't end the program, then Congress must pass the USA FREEDOM Act and shut it down permanently."

- more -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/02/07/obama-administration-starts-to-implement-changes-to-nsa-phone-records-program/


Obama to Call for End to N.S.A.’s Bulk Data Collection

By CHARLIE SAVAGE

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is preparing to unveil a legislative proposal for a far-reaching overhaul of the National Security Agency’s once-secret bulk phone records program in a way that — if approved by Congress — would end the aspect that has most alarmed privacy advocates since its existence was leaked last year, according to senior administration officials.

Under the proposal, they said, the N.S.A. would end its systematic collection of data about Americans’ calling habits. The bulk records would stay in the hands of phone companies, which would not be required to retain the data for any longer than they normally would. And the N.S.A. could obtain specific records only with permission from a judge, using a new kind of court order.

In a speech in January, President Obama said he wanted to get the N.S.A. out of the business of collecting call records in bulk while preserving the program’s abilities. He acknowledged, however, that there was no easy way to do so, and had instructed Justice Department and intelligence officials to come up with a plan by March 28 — Friday — when the current court order authorizing the program expires.

<...>

Jameel Jaffer of the American Civil Liberties Union said, “We have many questions about the details, but we agree with the administration that the N.S.A.’s bulk collection of call records should end.” He added, “As we’ve argued since the program was disclosed, the government can track suspected terrorists without placing millions of people under permanent surveillance.”


"For The Record:" Yes, Bush actually spied on American:

Some efforts took place in public. In May 2002, the surveillance court rejected a request to dismantle a “wall” that inhibited criminal prosecutors from working closely with intelligence investigators using FISA surveillance; that fall, a review court overturned the ruling. Meanwhile, the administration was also pushing in private to get around obstacles to sharing information among intelligence agencies.

<...>

The newly disclosed documents also refer to a decision by the court called Large Content FISA, a term that has not been publicly revealed before. Several current and former officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Large Content FISA referred to sweeping but short-lived orders issued on Jan. 10, 2007, that authorized the Bush administration to continue its warrantless wiretapping program.

The Bush administration had sought a ruling to put the program, which had been exposed by The New York Times, on a firmer legal footing. Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales disclosed a week after the decision that a judge had issued “innovative” and “complex” orders bringing the program under the surveillance court’s authority. But when they came up for renewal that April, another surveillance court judge balked and began requiring cumbersome paperwork, prompting the administration to seek a legislative solution, an intelligence official later explained.

<...>

Two classification guides say that the N.S.A. used the orders during a transition to the enactment of the Protect America Act, an August 2007 law in which Congress legalized the program. It was replaced with the FISA Amendments Act in 2008.

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/us/how-a-courts-secret-evolution-extended-spies-reach.html

This is what I've been posting about for years. Bush was actually spying on Americans. He bypassed the courts, and Congress briefly made it legal.

The program was in fact a wide range of covert surveillance activities authorized by President Bush in the aftermath of 9/11. At that time, White House officials, led by Vice President Dick Cheney, had become convinced that FISA court procedures were too cumbersome and time-consuming to permit U.S. intelligence and law-enforcement agencies to quickly identify possible Qaeda terrorists inside the country. (Cheney's chief counsel, David Addington, referred to the FISA court in one meeting as that "obnoxious court," according to former assistant attorney general Jack Goldsmith.) Under a series of secret orders, Bush authorized the NSA for the first time to eavesdrop on phone calls and e-mails between the United States and a foreign country without any court review. The code name for the NSA collection activities—unknown to all but a tiny number of officials at the White House and in the U.S. intelligence community—was "Stellar Wind."

http://web.archive.org/web/20081216011008/http://www.newsweek.com/id/174601/output/print

Note, this is inside the U.S. and involves bypassing the FISA court to actually "eavesdrop."

Republicans fought to make that legal, and succeeded in doing so before Democrats were able to force an expiration of the law.

From a post last year:

There have been a number of media reports using the same Obama quote to basically claim that he once called out Bush, but then embraced the policy. They are intentionally conflating a quote about the PAA with his position on the 2008 FISA amendments, which he voted for. They are not the same thing. The PAA was a Republican effort to absolve Bush.

While the article mentions that Obama voted against the Protect America Act (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00309), there is no mention of the fact that the Act expired in early 2008.

Senator Mitch McConnell introduced the act on August 1, 2007, during the 110th United States Congress. On August 3, it was passed in the Senate with an amendment, 60–28 (record vote number 309).[12] On August 4, it passed the House of Representatives 227-183 (roll number 836).[12] On August 5, it was signed by President Bush, becoming Public Law No. 110-055. On February 17, 2008, it expired due to sunset provision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007#Legislative_history


The amendments to FISA made by the Act expire 180 days after enactment, except that any order in effect on the date of enactment remains in effect until the date of expiration of such order and such orders can be reauthorized by the FISA Court.”[38] The Act expired on February 17, 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act#Protect_America_Act_of_2007


Here's Bush's statement at the time: http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/02/20080214-4.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023026724

The major problem with the FISA amendments is that it gave the telecomms immunity. Otherwise, it included several reforms. What it did not do was make Bush's illegal spying legal.

Here is information on the FISA law including the 2008 amendments.

Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 Amendments Act of 2008

Specifically, the Act:[19]

  • Prohibits the individual states from investigating, sanctioning of, or requiring disclosure by complicit telecoms or other persons.

  • Permits the government not to keep records of searches, and destroy existing records (it requires them to keep the records for a period of 10 years).

  • Protects telecommunications companies from lawsuits for "'past or future cooperation' with federal law enforcement authorities and will assist the intelligence community in determining the plans of terrorists". Immunity is given by a certification process, which can be overturned by a court on specific grounds.[20]

  • Removes requirements for detailed descriptions of the nature of information or property targeted by the surveillance if the target is reasonably believed to be outside the country.[20]

  • Increased the time for warrantless surveillance from 48 hours to 7 days, if the FISA court is notified and receives an application, specific officials sign the emergency notification, and relates to an American located outside of the United States with probable cause they are an agent of a foreign power. After 7 days, if the court denies or does not review the application, the information obtained cannot be offered as evidence. If the United States Attorney General believes the information shows threat of death or bodily harm, they can try to offer the information as evidence in future proceedings.[21]

  • Permits the Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General to jointly authorize warrantless electronic surveillance, for one-year periods, targeted at a foreigner who is abroad. This provision will sunset on December 31, 2012.

  • Requires FISA court permission to target wiretaps at Americans who are overseas.

  • Requires government agencies to cease warranted surveillance of a targeted American who is abroad if said person enters the United States. (However, said surveillance may resume if it is reasonably believed that the person has left the States.)

  • Prohibits targeting a foreigner to eavesdrop on an American's calls or e-mails without court approval. [22]

  • Allows the FISA court 30 days to review existing but expiring surveillance orders before renewing them.

  • Allows eavesdropping in emergencies without court approval, provided the government files required papers within a week.

  • Prohibits the government from invoking war powers or other authorities to supersede surveillance rules in the future.

  • Requires the Inspectors General of all intelligence agencies involved in the President's Surveillance Program to "complete a comprehensive review" and report within one year
Effects

  • The provisions of the Act granting immunity to the complicit telecoms create a roadblock for a number of lawsuits intended to expose and thwart the alleged abuses of power and illegal activities of the federal government since and before the September 11 attacks.[citation needed]

  • Allows the government to conduct surveillance of "a U.S. person located outside of the U.S. with probable cause they are an agent of a foreign power" for up to one week (168 hours) without a warrant, increased from the previous 48 hours, as long as the FISA court is notified at the time such surveillance begins, and an application as usually required for surveillance authorization is submitted by the government to FISA within those 168 hours[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008#Provisions


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

DU Rec. eom MohRokTah Apr 2014 #1
"Conversation." blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #2
There's no way to spin it. HooptieWagon Apr 2014 #3
I'm afraid secondvariety Apr 2014 #5
+1 nashville_brook Apr 2014 #148
NO, they didn't. THAT is a fact. jazzimov Apr 2014 #4
Another of those 'unknown unknowns? elias49 Apr 2014 #6
A defender of Clapper's lies here at the "Underground" villager Apr 2014 #11
word. nt silvershadow Apr 2014 #45
Comrade Jazzimov billhicks76 Apr 2014 #150
So when Bartlet Apr 2014 #152
Welcome to DU!You actually consider that "not a problem" when the private sector collects your info? villager Apr 2014 #156
First of all, you do know that Wikileaks can be edited by anyone on the internet, right? cui bono Apr 2014 #13
First of all, I'm talking about the Wikileaks "evidence" jazzimov Apr 2014 #32
So no new technology is covered by the constitution? cui bono Apr 2014 #43
Obviously, you don't know the Constitution OR jazzimov Apr 2014 #57
What is that supposed to even mean? Ed Suspicious Apr 2014 #77
Data bases are quite complicated,You type in a query and it returns the results Dragonfli Apr 2014 #78
I nearly fell out of my chair laughing Aerows Apr 2014 #115
Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder? Ed Suspicious Apr 2014 #153
Magical indeed! Ed Suspicious Apr 2014 #154
Closing your eyes to inconvenient truths is also unproductive. lark Apr 2014 #128
Wow, so many false statements, so little time hueymahl Apr 2014 #161
Think you may be conflating Wikileaks and Wikipedia. mattclearing Apr 2014 #73
Ignorance is on the calling card Android3.14 Apr 2014 #85
Oh! Yes I was.... brain fart. cui bono Apr 2014 #169
Some apparently has a different fourth amendment, you know like Cliven Bundy, Thinkingabout Apr 2014 #47
Private firms bl968 Apr 2014 #80
Clapper's deliberate word games? G_j Apr 2014 #84
I've seen that part of the hearing a number of times. Clapper answered the question truthfully. George II Apr 2014 #90
Clapper himslef has admitted he lied to the Senate Committee. bvar22 Apr 2014 #103
No one is entitled to their own "Facts" the fact is NSA spies and is spying on US all. Believe what Vincardog Apr 2014 #110
It all depends on what "is" is. clarice Apr 2014 #135
Wow billhicks76 Apr 2014 #149
Excellent, Manny! I, too, am sure he was going to tell us. Um hmm. n/t truth2power Apr 2014 #7
Sure he was. 840high Apr 2014 #8
He was going to tell us as soon as he found his comfortable shoes. OnyxCollie Apr 2014 #16
Manny, Phlem Apr 2014 #9
"have you noticed a flood of posters roughly 200 to 400 posts recently getting very animated in DU?" Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #12
I thought you were against the NSA spying? n/t cui bono Apr 2014 #14
Are you sure you're responding to the right person? Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #18
No, that's seems to be the standard Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #116
Getting that check every two weeks from Karl Rove helps keep perspective MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #21
+1... freebrew Apr 2014 #95
Well we have had the conversation. zeemike Apr 2014 #10
Anyone watching Good Wife riverbendviewgal Apr 2014 #15
rec'd for the flattery through immitation nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #17
Kick. GoneFishin Apr 2014 #19
Yall need to study your constituion more Cryptoad Apr 2014 #20
Correct Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #24
I thought you were against the NSA spying? n/t cui bono Apr 2014 #53
Are you sure you're replying to the right person? Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #55
You can argue the unconstitutionality of a program before it reaches the high court. ForgoTheConsequence Apr 2014 #28
It reached the high court in 1979. jeff47 Apr 2014 #35
we need a new law ForgoTheConsequence Apr 2014 #39
Metadata is nothin. jeff47 Apr 2014 #60
that's the same info sunnystarr Apr 2014 #91
Nope. jeff47 Apr 2014 #113
That wasn't an appeal to authority. bvar22 Apr 2014 #126
Yep Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #42
Cali, you are so right. mimi85 Apr 2014 #59
This guy disagrees. bvar22 Apr 2014 #105
This doesn't fit the new meme so it doesn't count. think Apr 2014 #108
The fun thing about opinions is they don't change reality. jeff47 Apr 2014 #112
..and THAT is YOUR "opinion". bvar22 Apr 2014 #118
Appeal to authority is an odd tactic for someone so anti-establishment. jeff47 Apr 2014 #119
Ron Wyden has never claimed they lied. joshcryer Apr 2014 #22
Well... I didn't claim that in my OP, but in any case... MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #26
Wyden made sure the record was correct. joshcryer Apr 2014 #34
HAIL HYDRA! whatchamacallit Apr 2014 #23
No they didn't treestar Apr 2014 #25
What evidence are you basing your certainty of "no they didnt" on? Are you absolutely certain? rhett o rick Apr 2014 #46
Because Obama! neverforget Apr 2014 #62
Well, only one program has leaked so far jeff47 Apr 2014 #63
Baffled that anyone believes the NSA didn't spy on all Americans, and doesn't still. Skip Intro Apr 2014 #27
Some shade of brown. ForgoTheConsequence Apr 2014 #29
lol. n/t Skip Intro Apr 2014 #33
Ouch. MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #36
+1 L0oniX Apr 2014 #89
I think it's called shit brown. JEB Apr 2014 #104
Well when your head is Aerows Apr 2014 #117
What do you think the NSA rah rah crowd eats? JEB Apr 2014 #125
I think they are mushrooms. n/t Aerows Apr 2014 #139
Paid mushrooms living off the shit buried in the bowels of the dying empire. JEB Apr 2014 #147
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #30
It is as much a fact as Saddam's WMDs. jeff47 Apr 2014 #31
Nah, they keep all plaintext, they just can't "view it" without a warrant. joshcryer Apr 2014 #37
That's why posts like this OP are really, really, really dumb jeff47 Apr 2014 #41
Did *I* suggest the "fix"? MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #44
Yes. You demanded the NSA "stop spying". jeff47 Apr 2014 #49
The US security apparatus reports to the President MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #54
And there go the goalposts. jeff47 Apr 2014 #58
Haven't moved a bit. You asked a question, I answered it, MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #66
And here we get to stage 2 of Manny's argument going South jeff47 Apr 2014 #68
Or receiving a barrage of prevarications and personal insults MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #101
Too bad those posts are still there. jeff47 Apr 2014 #114
So Mr. Jeff, you seem to enjoy finding cracks in arguments (whether they are there or not) hueymahl Apr 2014 #163
So Castro, 2024. joshcryer Apr 2014 #51
The fix is insane. joshcryer Apr 2014 #50
"Anyone with a checkbook" does not have the right to imprison me. nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #40
Yes, actually they do. jeff47 Apr 2014 #48
You just admitted they are spying on everyone RobertEarl Apr 2014 #56
Reading. You really need to start trying it. jeff47 Apr 2014 #61
Did you just now start reading? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #64
The problem with attempting a "gotcha" is you have to actually be clever to pull it off. jeff47 Apr 2014 #65
Question RobertEarl Apr 2014 #67
I don't. jeff47 Apr 2014 #69
You have any links? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #70
Don't remember your own posting history? jeff47 Apr 2014 #71
Just check my journal RobertEarl Apr 2014 #75
Oddly enough, you don't send every post to your journal. jeff47 Apr 2014 #111
Blatant epic false equivalency. Phone companies are not looking for criminals and terrorists. L0oniX Apr 2014 #92
Privacy is not only from the government. jeff47 Apr 2014 #109
I agree with you that corporate collection of personal information is a problem. Maedhros Apr 2014 #120
What bad acts? jeff47 Apr 2014 #123
I won't recap all of the revelations from the leaked documents. Maedhros Apr 2014 #124
The ruling did not claim it only covered individual suspects. jeff47 Apr 2014 #127
Um...in my previous response I did agree that there is a larger problem Maedhros Apr 2014 #132
Sure, just like Dred Scott. jeff47 Apr 2014 #136
Federal judges are certainly not infallible. Maedhros Apr 2014 #142
You are badly, badly twisting that opinion hueymahl Apr 2014 #165
Sure ...Verizon is voluntarily forwarding meta to NSA under no threat. L0oniX Apr 2014 #121
They'd have no metadata to forward if they weren't spying jeff47 Apr 2014 #122
OFFS now I get it... L0oniX Apr 2014 #145
They could be terrorists, though. Democracyinkind Apr 2014 #38
Manny, you are without a doubt mimi85 Apr 2014 #52
Manny, You Are A Treasure Here, And This Place Wouldn't Be The Same Without You !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #72
It takes courage to speak the truth. Obnoxious_One Apr 2014 #74
K&R n/t NealK Apr 2014 #76
Agreed - No Other Way To Spin This cantbeserious Apr 2014 #79
Not only did we get lied to by the NSA... 99Forever Apr 2014 #81
Couldn't agree more..... Swede Atlanta Apr 2014 #82
Facts don't get us very far, unfortunately Demeter Apr 2014 #83
I remember then talking about listening for certian words and then tracking those words. That would jwirr Apr 2014 #86
That's quite a leap in assumptions. randome Apr 2014 #96
I was not the one who fist suggested that they spied on us using words. I do not remember where jwirr Apr 2014 #98
And there is nothing to indicate it applies to citizens. randome Apr 2014 #99
"For The Record:" ProSense Apr 2014 #87
Just curious hueymahl Apr 2014 #166
Certainly our wonderful journalists would have told us about NSA crimes... L0oniX Apr 2014 #88
But...but...but...Snowden!!!11111 Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #93
Very well put. nt. NCTraveler Apr 2014 #94
So you think storing copies of metadata is the same as spying. randome Apr 2014 #97
Poll: Majority of Americans Against NSA Spying MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #100
Being 'against spying' is like saying you're against war. randome Apr 2014 #107
I tend to assume the president didn't know before Snowden. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #102
For The Record.... gcomeau Apr 2014 #106
hi sarah445 Apr 2014 #129
Hi Sarah MagnumUK Apr 2014 #168
This is the top "greatest thread" as we speak Otelo Apr 2014 #130
kick warrprayer Apr 2014 #131
It is not a proven fact. Progressive dog Apr 2014 #133
It is fact the NSA spied on all Americans. I would not presume Obama was going to state any Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #134
Please be more specific about your 'fact'. randome Apr 2014 #137
It is a material fact, yes, may be a disputed fact by the NSA..that is different. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #138
One cant see the evidence if their eyes are closed. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #140
People are sometimes uncomfortable with information,the scope of the Snowden leak has been riveting. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #146
The fact of metadata records obtained via a warrant? randome Apr 2014 #141
You're suggesting the NSA is not disputing spying on Americans? n/t Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #144
A non-equivocal answer on that would be welcome. randome Apr 2014 #151
I asked you a question you are not willing to answer. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #157
just lurking, but that's a total fail on your part. You can't answer a simple question. uhnope Apr 2014 #164
You sound content..I am happy for you. n/t Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #167
"Why bother with an investigation and trial? He's guilty. I'm sure of it." LanternWaste Apr 2014 #143
Tragically inane. OilemFirchen Apr 2014 #155
how many people here believe this "Sky is Falling" garbage? uhnope Apr 2014 #159
About 300. OilemFirchen Apr 2014 #160
The NSA and the CIA have been doing things they shouldn't have since 1947 (CIA) and 1952 (NSA). Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2014 #158
this is FOX or RW radio-level BS. and Snowden LIED btw uhnope Apr 2014 #162
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