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In reply to the discussion: For The Record: The NSA Spied on All Americans. It Is a Fact. [View all]ProSense
(116,464 posts)87. "For The Record:"
"I'm also glad that President Obama is happy to have a conversation about this: I presume this means he was going to tell us, anyway, so we could have this conversation."
...President Obama is doing more than having a "conversation."
Obama administration starts to implement changes to NSA phone records program
By Andrea Peterson
During his Jan. 17 speech on National Security Agency (NSA) surveillance, President Obama proposed a number of changes to the agency's bulk domestic phone records program. Thursday, the administration announced that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) approved a motion to start implementing some of those changes.
Specifically, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) said the court granted a motion to modify the most recent primary order authorizing the 215 phone records program to ensure that the metadata will only be queried after a judicial finding that there is a "reasonable, articulable suspicion" that the selection is associated with an international terrorist organization "absent a true emergency." In addition, the motion limited the query results to metadata within two hops of the selection term, rather than the prior three.
The FISC also ordered a classification review of the motions and the most recent primary order authorizing the program from January of this year, the government's motion to amend that order, and the court's order granting that motion, to be completed by Feb. 17. Once the review is completed, ODNI says the documents will "will be published as appropriate."
<...>
Laura W. Murphy, director of the ACLU's Washington Legislative Office mirrored his sentiments. "It's good to see that some of the president's reforms to the bulk collection program have been implemented," she said. "What we need now, though, is not tinkering around the edges but an end to bulk collection. If the president won't end the program, then Congress must pass the USA FREEDOM Act and shut it down permanently."
- more -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/02/07/obama-administration-starts-to-implement-changes-to-nsa-phone-records-program/
By Andrea Peterson
During his Jan. 17 speech on National Security Agency (NSA) surveillance, President Obama proposed a number of changes to the agency's bulk domestic phone records program. Thursday, the administration announced that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) approved a motion to start implementing some of those changes.
Specifically, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) said the court granted a motion to modify the most recent primary order authorizing the 215 phone records program to ensure that the metadata will only be queried after a judicial finding that there is a "reasonable, articulable suspicion" that the selection is associated with an international terrorist organization "absent a true emergency." In addition, the motion limited the query results to metadata within two hops of the selection term, rather than the prior three.
The FISC also ordered a classification review of the motions and the most recent primary order authorizing the program from January of this year, the government's motion to amend that order, and the court's order granting that motion, to be completed by Feb. 17. Once the review is completed, ODNI says the documents will "will be published as appropriate."
<...>
Laura W. Murphy, director of the ACLU's Washington Legislative Office mirrored his sentiments. "It's good to see that some of the president's reforms to the bulk collection program have been implemented," she said. "What we need now, though, is not tinkering around the edges but an end to bulk collection. If the president won't end the program, then Congress must pass the USA FREEDOM Act and shut it down permanently."
- more -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/02/07/obama-administration-starts-to-implement-changes-to-nsa-phone-records-program/
Obama to Call for End to N.S.A.s Bulk Data Collection
By CHARLIE SAVAGE
WASHINGTON The Obama administration is preparing to unveil a legislative proposal for a far-reaching overhaul of the National Security Agencys once-secret bulk phone records program in a way that if approved by Congress would end the aspect that has most alarmed privacy advocates since its existence was leaked last year, according to senior administration officials.
Under the proposal, they said, the N.S.A. would end its systematic collection of data about Americans calling habits. The bulk records would stay in the hands of phone companies, which would not be required to retain the data for any longer than they normally would. And the N.S.A. could obtain specific records only with permission from a judge, using a new kind of court order.
In a speech in January, President Obama said he wanted to get the N.S.A. out of the business of collecting call records in bulk while preserving the programs abilities. He acknowledged, however, that there was no easy way to do so, and had instructed Justice Department and intelligence officials to come up with a plan by March 28 Friday when the current court order authorizing the program expires.
<...>
Jameel Jaffer of the American Civil Liberties Union said, We have many questions about the details, but we agree with the administration that the N.S.A.s bulk collection of call records should end. He added, As weve argued since the program was disclosed, the government can track suspected terrorists without placing millions of people under permanent surveillance.
By CHARLIE SAVAGE
WASHINGTON The Obama administration is preparing to unveil a legislative proposal for a far-reaching overhaul of the National Security Agencys once-secret bulk phone records program in a way that if approved by Congress would end the aspect that has most alarmed privacy advocates since its existence was leaked last year, according to senior administration officials.
Under the proposal, they said, the N.S.A. would end its systematic collection of data about Americans calling habits. The bulk records would stay in the hands of phone companies, which would not be required to retain the data for any longer than they normally would. And the N.S.A. could obtain specific records only with permission from a judge, using a new kind of court order.
In a speech in January, President Obama said he wanted to get the N.S.A. out of the business of collecting call records in bulk while preserving the programs abilities. He acknowledged, however, that there was no easy way to do so, and had instructed Justice Department and intelligence officials to come up with a plan by March 28 Friday when the current court order authorizing the program expires.
<...>
Jameel Jaffer of the American Civil Liberties Union said, We have many questions about the details, but we agree with the administration that the N.S.A.s bulk collection of call records should end. He added, As weve argued since the program was disclosed, the government can track suspected terrorists without placing millions of people under permanent surveillance.
"For The Record:" Yes, Bush actually spied on American:
Some efforts took place in public. In May 2002, the surveillance court rejected a request to dismantle a wall that inhibited criminal prosecutors from working closely with intelligence investigators using FISA surveillance; that fall, a review court overturned the ruling. Meanwhile, the administration was also pushing in private to get around obstacles to sharing information among intelligence agencies.
<...>
The newly disclosed documents also refer to a decision by the court called Large Content FISA, a term that has not been publicly revealed before. Several current and former officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Large Content FISA referred to sweeping but short-lived orders issued on Jan. 10, 2007, that authorized the Bush administration to continue its warrantless wiretapping program.
The Bush administration had sought a ruling to put the program, which had been exposed by The New York Times, on a firmer legal footing. Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales disclosed a week after the decision that a judge had issued innovative and complex orders bringing the program under the surveillance courts authority. But when they came up for renewal that April, another surveillance court judge balked and began requiring cumbersome paperwork, prompting the administration to seek a legislative solution, an intelligence official later explained.
<...>
Two classification guides say that the N.S.A. used the orders during a transition to the enactment of the Protect America Act, an August 2007 law in which Congress legalized the program. It was replaced with the FISA Amendments Act in 2008.
- more -
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/us/how-a-courts-secret-evolution-extended-spies-reach.html
<...>
The newly disclosed documents also refer to a decision by the court called Large Content FISA, a term that has not been publicly revealed before. Several current and former officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Large Content FISA referred to sweeping but short-lived orders issued on Jan. 10, 2007, that authorized the Bush administration to continue its warrantless wiretapping program.
The Bush administration had sought a ruling to put the program, which had been exposed by The New York Times, on a firmer legal footing. Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales disclosed a week after the decision that a judge had issued innovative and complex orders bringing the program under the surveillance courts authority. But when they came up for renewal that April, another surveillance court judge balked and began requiring cumbersome paperwork, prompting the administration to seek a legislative solution, an intelligence official later explained.
<...>
Two classification guides say that the N.S.A. used the orders during a transition to the enactment of the Protect America Act, an August 2007 law in which Congress legalized the program. It was replaced with the FISA Amendments Act in 2008.
- more -
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/us/how-a-courts-secret-evolution-extended-spies-reach.html
This is what I've been posting about for years. Bush was actually spying on Americans. He bypassed the courts, and Congress briefly made it legal.
The program was in fact a wide range of covert surveillance activities authorized by President Bush in the aftermath of 9/11. At that time, White House officials, led by Vice President Dick Cheney, had become convinced that FISA court procedures were too cumbersome and time-consuming to permit U.S. intelligence and law-enforcement agencies to quickly identify possible Qaeda terrorists inside the country. (Cheney's chief counsel, David Addington, referred to the FISA court in one meeting as that "obnoxious court," according to former assistant attorney general Jack Goldsmith.) Under a series of secret orders, Bush authorized the NSA for the first time to eavesdrop on phone calls and e-mails between the United States and a foreign country without any court review. The code name for the NSA collection activitiesunknown to all but a tiny number of officials at the White House and in the U.S. intelligence communitywas "Stellar Wind."
http://web.archive.org/web/20081216011008/http://www.newsweek.com/id/174601/output/print
http://web.archive.org/web/20081216011008/http://www.newsweek.com/id/174601/output/print
Note, this is inside the U.S. and involves bypassing the FISA court to actually "eavesdrop."
Republicans fought to make that legal, and succeeded in doing so before Democrats were able to force an expiration of the law.
From a post last year:
There have been a number of media reports using the same Obama quote to basically claim that he once called out Bush, but then embraced the policy. They are intentionally conflating a quote about the PAA with his position on the 2008 FISA amendments, which he voted for. They are not the same thing. The PAA was a Republican effort to absolve Bush.
While the article mentions that Obama voted against the Protect America Act (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00309), there is no mention of the fact that the Act expired in early 2008.
Senator Mitch McConnell introduced the act on August 1, 2007, during the 110th United States Congress. On August 3, it was passed in the Senate with an amendment, 6028 (record vote number 309).[12] On August 4, it passed the House of Representatives 227-183 (roll number 836).[12] On August 5, it was signed by President Bush, becoming Public Law No. 110-055. On February 17, 2008, it expired due to sunset provision.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007#Legislative_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007#Legislative_history
The amendments to FISA made by the Act expire 180 days after enactment, except that any order in effect on the date of enactment remains in effect until the date of expiration of such order and such orders can be reauthorized by the FISA Court.[38] The Act expired on February 17, 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act#Protect_America_Act_of_2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act#Protect_America_Act_of_2007
Here's Bush's statement at the time: http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/02/20080214-4.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023026724
The major problem with the FISA amendments is that it gave the telecomms immunity. Otherwise, it included several reforms. What it did not do was make Bush's illegal spying legal.
Here is information on the FISA law including the 2008 amendments.
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 Amendments Act of 2008
Specifically, the Act:[19]
- Prohibits the individual states from investigating, sanctioning of, or requiring disclosure by complicit telecoms or other persons.
- Permits the government not to keep records of searches, and destroy existing records (it requires them to keep the records for a period of 10 years).
- Protects telecommunications companies from lawsuits for "'past or future cooperation' with federal law enforcement authorities and will assist the intelligence community in determining the plans of terrorists". Immunity is given by a certification process, which can be overturned by a court on specific grounds.[20]
- Removes requirements for detailed descriptions of the nature of information or property targeted by the surveillance if the target is reasonably believed to be outside the country.[20]
- Increased the time for warrantless surveillance from 48 hours to 7 days, if the FISA court is notified and receives an application, specific officials sign the emergency notification, and relates to an American located outside of the United States with probable cause they are an agent of a foreign power. After 7 days, if the court denies or does not review the application, the information obtained cannot be offered as evidence. If the United States Attorney General believes the information shows threat of death or bodily harm, they can try to offer the information as evidence in future proceedings.[21]
- Permits the Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General to jointly authorize warrantless electronic surveillance, for one-year periods, targeted at a foreigner who is abroad. This provision will sunset on December 31, 2012.
- Requires FISA court permission to target wiretaps at Americans who are overseas.
- Requires government agencies to cease warranted surveillance of a targeted American who is abroad if said person enters the United States. (However, said surveillance may resume if it is reasonably believed that the person has left the States.)
- Prohibits targeting a foreigner to eavesdrop on an American's calls or e-mails without court approval. [22]
- Allows the FISA court 30 days to review existing but expiring surveillance orders before renewing them.
- Allows eavesdropping in emergencies without court approval, provided the government files required papers within a week.
- Prohibits the government from invoking war powers or other authorities to supersede surveillance rules in the future.
- Requires the Inspectors General of all intelligence agencies involved in the President's Surveillance Program to "complete a comprehensive review" and report within one year
- The provisions of the Act granting immunity to the complicit telecoms create a roadblock for a number of lawsuits intended to expose and thwart the alleged abuses of power and illegal activities of the federal government since and before the September 11 attacks.[citation needed]
- Allows the government to conduct surveillance of "a U.S. person located outside of the U.S. with probable cause they are an agent of a foreign power" for up to one week (168 hours) without a warrant, increased from the previous 48 hours, as long as the FISA court is notified at the time such surveillance begins, and an application as usually required for surveillance authorization is submitted by the government to FISA within those 168 hours[21]
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Welcome to DU!You actually consider that "not a problem" when the private sector collects your info?
villager
Apr 2014
#156
First of all, you do know that Wikileaks can be edited by anyone on the internet, right?
cui bono
Apr 2014
#13
Data bases are quite complicated,You type in a query and it returns the results
Dragonfli
Apr 2014
#78
Some apparently has a different fourth amendment, you know like Cliven Bundy,
Thinkingabout
Apr 2014
#47
I've seen that part of the hearing a number of times. Clapper answered the question truthfully.
George II
Apr 2014
#90
No one is entitled to their own "Facts" the fact is NSA spies and is spying on US all. Believe what
Vincardog
Apr 2014
#110
"have you noticed a flood of posters roughly 200 to 400 posts recently getting very animated in DU?"
Cali_Democrat
Apr 2014
#12
Getting that check every two weeks from Karl Rove helps keep perspective
MannyGoldstein
Apr 2014
#21
You can argue the unconstitutionality of a program before it reaches the high court.
ForgoTheConsequence
Apr 2014
#28
What evidence are you basing your certainty of "no they didnt" on? Are you absolutely certain?
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#46
Baffled that anyone believes the NSA didn't spy on all Americans, and doesn't still.
Skip Intro
Apr 2014
#27
So Mr. Jeff, you seem to enjoy finding cracks in arguments (whether they are there or not)
hueymahl
Apr 2014
#163
The problem with attempting a "gotcha" is you have to actually be clever to pull it off.
jeff47
Apr 2014
#65
Blatant epic false equivalency. Phone companies are not looking for criminals and terrorists.
L0oniX
Apr 2014
#92
I agree with you that corporate collection of personal information is a problem.
Maedhros
Apr 2014
#120
Manny, You Are A Treasure Here, And This Place Wouldn't Be The Same Without You !!!
WillyT
Apr 2014
#72
I remember then talking about listening for certian words and then tracking those words. That would
jwirr
Apr 2014
#86
I was not the one who fist suggested that they spied on us using words. I do not remember where
jwirr
Apr 2014
#98
It is fact the NSA spied on all Americans. I would not presume Obama was going to state any
Jefferson23
Apr 2014
#134
It is a material fact, yes, may be a disputed fact by the NSA..that is different.
Jefferson23
Apr 2014
#138
People are sometimes uncomfortable with information,the scope of the Snowden leak has been riveting.
Jefferson23
Apr 2014
#146
just lurking, but that's a total fail on your part. You can't answer a simple question.
uhnope
Apr 2014
#164
"Why bother with an investigation and trial? He's guilty. I'm sure of it."
LanternWaste
Apr 2014
#143
The NSA and the CIA have been doing things they shouldn't have since 1947 (CIA) and 1952 (NSA).
Sarah Ibarruri
Apr 2014
#158