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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
98. And Communism raised so much fear, massive armies were raised
Tue Apr 22, 2014, 11:43 PM
Apr 2014

Such armies required the draft to provide the men needed for them, and for the draft to work the people being drafted MUST feel they would be fighting for a just cause. Thus Capitalists had to make a better place for such soldiers, for fear that they would turn their weapons against the Capitalists.

Notice, the issue for such draftees was fair treatment, they would accept being underpaid while in the Service, but would NOT accept the continuation of the poor getting poorer and the richer getting richer which had been the norm in the 1800s.

In the US, we have had more use of the Military to put down labor then any other country, Britain is #2. The reason for this is simple, except for brief time period, both countries employed mercenary armies (often called "Volunteers" or "Regulars&quot as opposed the the Universal Service Armies of the European Continent. With Universal Military Service, the people and the army become one and the same, and as such the Army becomes something useless to put down labor or popular unrest. The most recent example of this is Egypt. The Egyptian Army basically refused to shoot Egyptians who wanted Mubarak out. Once the Egyptian Police could not contain the revolt, Mubarak was out for the Army could NOT be relied on to put down the revolt.

Now, with the overthrow of Morsi, was different from the overthrow of Mubarak. Yes, you had a protest that lead to the overthrow, but it was clearly one produced by the Army leadership who wanted to regain control of the Government. Once the coup took place, the Army leadership re-instituted the Police and used the Police to put down any resistance, along with elite formations from within the Army. Army troops were sent around as a show of force, but NOT used to put down the protests against the Coup (Instead the Police and elite forces did that job).

The reason the protests continued so long, was the Generals could NOT rely on their troops to put down the protesters, instead to resorted to the Police which had been suppressing revolts since the time of Nasser. The present government of Egypt is unstable for it has no support among the people or the enlisted ranks of the Army.

When the Soviet Union was dissolving and the members of the Warsaw Pact overthrew their Communists Governments, all were peaceful for the Army of each country was "Draftee" and as such reflected the will of the people. i.e. if the people were for the revolt, so were they. The only exception to the peaceful revolts was in Romania. In Romania the Communist leadership tried to use its Police Force to stay in power, sending it out to suppress the revolt of the people of Romania. At that point the Army intervened, rejecting the order of the Government to support the Police, instead supported the People, for that is what the enlisted ranks wanted to do, and you really can NOT send in a modern army to do something it does NOT want to do.

In the US and to a lesser extent Britain, the desire for an army loyal to its paymasters, not the people was what was wanted and starting in the late 1960s you see that desire come again as you started to have problems with the US Army in Vietnam, as the people went from supporting the war in Vietnam to opposing the war (this happened in the summer of 1968, before that time period, polls has always shown the American People supporting the war in Vietnam, it is only in 1968 that polls starts to go the other way, and with the move in the polls, the effectiveness of the US Army in Vietnam went down hill).

The US Army in Vietnam was a draftee Army and as such tended to be one with the people of the US. After Vietnam, the US went to a "Volunteer" army, an army that gets its recruits by paying them (in other words a mercenary army, but no one likes that name, so it is called a "Volunteer" Army). A mercenary army is loyal to is paymaster, and thus even as most Americans opposed the War in Iraq, the US Army went and fought.

Please note the switch from a Draftee Army to a Mercenary Army is the same time when post WWII movement to fairer share of the income of the US, ended and the US resumed its pre-depression norm of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Yes, the opposition to the Vietnam war was one of the reason for ending the draft, but the people who authored the change had been for that change since WWII, on the grounds they wanted an army capable of suppressing domestic unrest, which a mercenary army does quite well.

Thus, while the post WWII era saw "bones" being thrown to the 99% to keep them from revolting, the post 1972 saw those "bones" being withdrawn and a build up of an army that can be used to suppress internal revolts. Such an army can also be used in overseas actions opposed by the American People, as it has been used in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US Army has been in Afghanistan longer then it was in Vietnam. The US Army is NOT going through the deterioration in fighting ability it went through between 1968 and 1972. The reason is the deterioration in fighting ability between 1968 and 1972 reflected opposition to the war by the American people, for the American People and its Army were one and the same (in mind and to a lesser degree body). In Afghanistan and Iraq the US Army is more concerned about its paymasters then the people of the US, and as such does what its paymaster wants.

Thus the shift from a Universal Service Army (more commonly called a Draftee Army) reflects fears by the ruling elite that such an Army will do what the American People wants done, not what they want done. The ruling elite wanted to stay in Vietnam passed 1972, but the Army enlisted ranks prevented that by just not enlisting and those drafted going through the motions instead of during what was needed. The ruling elite blamed everyone but that they were fighting an unpopular war. Worse I lived in that time period and they were discussions about what would happen in five to ten years if things were bad. they were looking for riots everywhere. Thus in many ways the move to a mercenary army was driven by the large protests of the Civil Rights movement and later the peace movement NOT the Vietnam war itself.

Just a comment that the present make up of the US Military is ideal for use to suppress any revolt by anyone the ruling elite does not want to protest. That was NOT true of the US Army of the 1960s and that is part of policy not accident.

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The American right has never been able to handle facts malaise Apr 2014 #1
... xchrom Apr 2014 #2
Nor does the American right have a clue about Marxism Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #35
I have long believed that corporate America malaise Apr 2014 #41
Oh, there are plenty of other people who have studied Marx -- and Lenin Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #105
Unfortunately the leaders have enough money that they don't have to handle facts hootinholler Apr 2014 #59
they can pay people to handle facts for them. TeamPooka Apr 2014 #66
This Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2014 #69
Mostly, they can't handle the fact that they've been suckered Warpy Apr 2014 #104
at some point Sherman A1 Apr 2014 #3
The system throws sufficient bones at the workers quaker bill Apr 2014 #6
And Communism raised so much fear, massive armies were raised happyslug Apr 2014 #98
That would be the smart thing to do, but unreg-capitalism doesnt have a mechanism for that. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #13
Unsustainable? Indeed. Hence increased surveillance RufusTFirefly Apr 2014 #22
Agreed Sherman A1 Apr 2014 #47
George II dropped some subtle-as-an-anvil clues... Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #55
Looks like America's middle class voted itself right out of existence nikto Apr 2014 #90
The Frog and the Scorpion would seem to fit here. nt Jeff Murdoch Apr 2014 #26
throwing bones to the people demigoddess Apr 2014 #88
Name calling is all they have, so they resort to it right away. nt bemildred Apr 2014 #4
"Thats Communism" is always the R.W. dotymed Apr 2014 #5
The insane part of that is... bvar22 Apr 2014 #56
Even more insane is their policies breed communists/ revolution ErikJ Apr 2014 #65
Has anyone read the book? Victor_c3 Apr 2014 #7
Bill Moyers, interviewing Paul Krugman, said it was something most could read rurallib Apr 2014 #8
Library? seabeckind Apr 2014 #9
My copy should arrive this week malaise Apr 2014 #10
Library? mikeysnot Apr 2014 #14
I just finished the introduction and moving to the body of the work. mulsh Apr 2014 #34
Thanks Victor_c3 Apr 2014 #37
I bought it last week daleo Apr 2014 #97
What is Piketty's stance on fluoridation? Orrex Apr 2014 #11
What? How does that possibly connect to economics? Thor_MN Apr 2014 #27
It has to do with the the implication that he's a communist. Orrex Apr 2014 #36
I get it, after the precious bodily fluid comment Thor_MN Apr 2014 #87
It has to do with your hard-core commie plot to introduce impurities into our precious bodily fluids tclambert Apr 2014 #39
Ever seen Piketty drink a glass of water? Gidney N Cloyd Apr 2014 #49
No, but have you seen this? DearAbby Apr 2014 #75
Hmm... Gidney N Cloyd Apr 2014 #77
Unfettered capitalism The Wizard Apr 2014 #12
So when will they do it again? The bankster's extortion worked. The biggist heist in rhett o rick Apr 2014 #15
They are still doing it n2doc Apr 2014 #23
And partly the bankers are getting away with it because of the truedelphi Apr 2014 #83
I am thinking that Pres Obama might have been "encouraged" to hire Geithner and Bernanke. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #86
Were you able to type out your reply with truedelphi Apr 2014 #92
Well I think it's easiest to see in the area of intelligence. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #108
A friend of mine had some interesting comments. HooptieWagon Apr 2014 #48
I'm reccing, though articles like this always give me pause. Starry Messenger Apr 2014 #16
There has never been a true Marxist/Communism country, they are/were a tyrannical dictatorship mrdmk Apr 2014 #80
I'm not a liberal, so we'll have to disagree. Starry Messenger Apr 2014 #93
No Surprise - The Behavior Is Predictable cantbeserious Apr 2014 #17
are they really scared? hfojvt Apr 2014 #18
The majority of Americans didn't read Milton Friedman or Friedrich Hayek alcibiades_mystery Apr 2014 #32
but those philosophies bought their way in hfojvt Apr 2014 #40
I don't think it is necessary for all Americans to read the book but it is essential that those who jwirr Apr 2014 #50
Check the top two selling books here at Powell's in Portland! cascadiance Apr 2014 #101
and it's $25 in hardcover hfojvt Apr 2014 #106
They will listen once Obama is out of office. nt kelliekat44 Apr 2014 #19
The best demo of this is to try to stan a pyramid upside down. Maybe that can get through to the kelliekat44 Apr 2014 #20
Why are economist so enamored with capitalism? fasttense Apr 2014 #21
Marx was an economist. kristopher Apr 2014 #38
Yes, Marx was an economist. I should not have lumped all economist into one group. fasttense Apr 2014 #51
Ok kristopher Apr 2014 #54
It's hard to explain centuries of destruction caused by capitalism fasttense Apr 2014 #107
How do you think we could eventually get "an educated and politically involved populace"? Dawgs Apr 2014 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author kristopher Apr 2014 #81
It's a good first step. kristopher Apr 2014 #82
Mandatory Voting? Done only in countries where they go through the motions of voting happyslug Apr 2014 #100
That has nothing to say about what might be done here kristopher Apr 2014 #103
Marx was a Historian, his strength was connecting Economics with History happyslug Apr 2014 #99
Not really relevant to the discussion kristopher Apr 2014 #102
I think it's highly ironic when someone runs away from Marx....... socialist_n_TN Apr 2014 #24
I wonder if he does that because Marx is so demonized by the cult of A. Smith in the academic econ Ed Suspicious Apr 2014 #42
Obviously he distances himself from Marx Progressive dog Apr 2014 #45
Sad abelenkpe Apr 2014 #25
K & R !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #28
The irony is that the majority of these wing nut flame throwers grew up.... Trust Buster Apr 2014 #29
Exactly randys1 Apr 2014 #31
When the dolts wake up to our reality things might change randys1 Apr 2014 #30
Climate change ... or peak oil (already here) ... one or the other ... or a bit of each ... brett_jv Apr 2014 #71
You know what angers me the most randys1 Apr 2014 #78
I could have done without that image in my head xfundy Apr 2014 #33
The title of this piece is deceptive raindaddy Apr 2014 #43
Not solely because of the right - TBF Apr 2014 #46
A baseball comes crashing through your window... raindaddy Apr 2014 #52
I didn't say they hadn't TBF Apr 2014 #53
And rightly so - he tells it like it is. K&R nt TBF Apr 2014 #44
Sold out on Amazon currently PasadenaTrudy Apr 2014 #57
All the RW has to do is scream marxist... IkeRepublican Apr 2014 #60
True that!!! raindaddy Apr 2014 #62
Douthat and his tribe Tsiyu Apr 2014 #61
Freedom Fries will be on the menu soon, catered by the MSM and Wall Street. nt adirondacker Apr 2014 #63
I don't think Mr. Piketty is a flash in the pan vlakitti Apr 2014 #64
To many people, shrinking resources, global collapse. WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2014 #67
Malthus was wrong. So are you. Ed Suspicious Apr 2014 #70
Well that was quick, nothing to worry about, whee WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2014 #79
Is not the entire right-wing screed, ideology, mantra about a government of, by, and for the indepat Apr 2014 #68
The PROBLEM is the Dems are busy trying to convince the rich that an oligarchy is a "bad" thing... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2014 #72
Douthat is a moron, almost as stupid as Maureen Dowd. (nt) Paladin Apr 2014 #73
It's no wonder that Millenials prefer socialism to capitalism by a slight margin eridani Apr 2014 #74
The current income inequality is not sustainable Gothmog Apr 2014 #76
Please remember that this guy is incapable of predicting the future. AngryAmish Apr 2014 #84
Well Then... Let's Consider The Past... Because We KNOW That THAT Worked... WillyT Apr 2014 #91
Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #94
That's An Accusation... Which Does Not Enhance Discussion... And Leaves Nobody Enlightened... WillyT Apr 2014 #95
I live right dab smack in the middle maindawg Apr 2014 #85
"A rising tide lifts all boats" Curmudgeoness Apr 2014 #89
Trckle Down, still in vogue in Washington DC. blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #96
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