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muriel_volestrangler

(105,885 posts)

97. But the point is no-one can point to a speech or article in which Mussolini said this

Thu Apr 24, 2014, 08:11 AM

Apr 2014

It's true that corporatism (or corporativism), with that definition of state-recognised interest groups, was a significant part of Mussolini's fascism, so it's possible that he did say it (though he definitely did say there was a lot more to fascism than that - see the EI article - lots of "the state is everything, the individual just a cog in the glorious state" stuff).

I think 'plutocracy' is the best description - rule by wealth. It's not so much corporations (in the modern American sense) that have the power, but individuals with money. It's not the CEO of Exxon with the power, but the Koch brothers. Big businesses generally benefit from the politics of the wealthy - they're what keeps them wealthy, so it makes sense to keep the golden goose laying for them.

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Is the USA now a fascist state? [View all] Prophet 451 Apr 2014 OP

Randi Rhodes said she is leaving radio VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #1

I'm not sure if the midterms will help Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #2

Sigh....thats NOT the problem...its not these "so-called" Corporate Democrats VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #4

Oh, I could punch Republicans for it Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #8

If you weaned off the cigs, the switch to only e-cigs should be no problem ... brett_jv Apr 2014 #31

This is my first day with no analogs Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #35

It goes away. Stick with it. randome Apr 2014 #83

Thanks, dude Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #89

seriously hang in there d_r Apr 2014 #92

+1. Nt newfie11 Apr 2014 #49

The Democratic politicians that are called "spineless" are not spineless, they are bought off! Dustlawyer Apr 2014 #160

Concern coupled with workable solutions. Here's a cheerful song that'll help us: freshwest Apr 2014 #26

Yeah, that's the problem, liberal rule the Democratic Party. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #27

That's what I was thinking. That's the most ridiculous spin I have read. Ever. djean111 Apr 2014 #79

Yeah. It was unusually bad. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #147

She wont come right out and say she is moving to CR but she must be randys1 Apr 2014 #153

it would depend on what kind of Democrats winning in the midterms too yurbud Apr 2014 #156

Remember that tanks in the streets... are not required for a nation to be fascist DJ13 Apr 2014 #3

I forgot about those Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #9

I'm American and I've never seen one either. Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #76

They keep them pretty well secluded 2naSalit Apr 2014 #109

I've seen them, in fact one place I lived they had a show of force of them RKP5637 Apr 2014 #132

Yep. We are no longer a nascent fascist State. We ballyhoo Apr 2014 #138

NO, its NOT. nt darkangel218 Apr 2014 #5

You forgot to say why not n/t Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #11

No need to. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #28

Clearly there is or I wouldn't have asked the question Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #29

Ha! i find your OP stance beyond silly. But to each their own, think whatever you like. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #30

I didn't take a stance, I asked a question Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #32

"Feel free to shove off"? darkangel218 Apr 2014 #113

That was the censored version n/t Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #114

Really? darkangel218 Apr 2014 #116

So am I nt Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #125

Not every question is actually worthy of being answered mythology Apr 2014 #101

See, I strongly disagree with that Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #103

Not really FBaggins Apr 2014 #127

See, you made an actual argument Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #135

You may have let that pledge of allegiance go to your head. L0oniX Apr 2014 #120

Yes. There is a reason why our army nows has one avebury Apr 2014 #6

This message was self-deleted by its author Drunken Irishman Apr 2014 #7

And what army group would that be? nt hack89 Apr 2014 #110

It started in 2008. avebury Apr 2014 #152

Not quite yet BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #10

What do you think still needs to happen? n/t Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #12

Good question BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #17

I think... Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #21

No. Mussolini had essentially a command economy, which is why he said that Recursion Apr 2014 #13

I understand your point about comparisons Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #15

Not quite BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #20

Or a Banana Republic oligarchy ErikJ Apr 2014 #14

Not much difference really n/t Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #16

No, of course not, don't be so silly. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2014 #18

You forgot to say why not n/t Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #22

No, I remembered not to. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2014 #23

Also a good way of dodging the question Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #25

+1. We were at a party and some loud mouthed con was going on about Obama being a dictator. FSogol Apr 2014 #136

With respect to the Pentagon and the security agencies (NSA, CIA, etc.) Maedhros Apr 2014 #19

That's what I'm asking Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #24

Review Chomsky's analysis Excerpted from Radical Priorities, 1981 Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #40

They don't have to obey the law Aerows Apr 2014 #36

Nor do Teabaggers Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #38

That there are no "tanks in the streets, racism, genocide, etc" IS STILL SOMETHING... Junkdrawer Apr 2014 #33

Do they fear the people Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #37

Funny. When I get out and talk to "the average Joe" that's not what I find... Junkdrawer Apr 2014 #39

Interesting point Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #43

Been watching THAT like a hawk. Electronic Voting, Push Polling, etc. etc. Junkdrawer Apr 2014 #44

So, how do I talk to my neighbors and strangers about politics? Junkdrawer Apr 2014 #59

For me, that's not an option Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #60

Sorry to hear that... Junkdrawer Apr 2014 #85

Of course Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #112

I'll tell you about 1978 someday...and worse... Junkdrawer Apr 2014 #161

Yes Aerows Apr 2014 #34

I guess I'm looking for reasons to hope Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #41

I'm glad we are talking about this because the nation appears headed for total destruction. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #42

Yeah, what you said Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #46

Yes. They are reaching into ever aspect of life. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #48

It all started when America decided to promote Capitalism to counter Communism.... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2014 #45

I think along similar lines Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #47

Yup. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #50

A corporate agenda Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #61

Exactly. It is no coincidence. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #148

Michael Moore said of the fall of the Soviet Union, "One down, one to go.".... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2014 #155

Couldn't agree more n/t Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #157

No. Starry Messenger Apr 2014 #51

Not really, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned, though, that's for damn sure. n/t AverageJoe90 Apr 2014 #52

Of course it is. That's the way the corporatocracy wants it. It's inevitable. baldguy Apr 2014 #53

See my response to VanillaRhapsody above Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #54

So, you believe the perfect should be the enemy of the good. baldguy Apr 2014 #115

No, I just wonder if there's a limit to lesser evilism Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #126

You know what the alternative to the "lesser evil" is in the real world? Evil. baldguy Apr 2014 #162

Folks like Warren and Sanders haven't given up on the political system...why have you? brooklynite Apr 2014 #55

Um, because I'm afraid teh system is rigged Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #56

Always amusing when DUers solemnly debate, on a free, public, open message board, Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #57

Thank you for completely missing teh point Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #58

+1...nt SidDithers Apr 2014 #70

... doing so while using the free wifi at the local bagel place. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #74

Again, that's the "tanks in the street" argument Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #78

I'll warn everyone here. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #80

Gilded cage. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #106

The difference between criminals and pillars of business Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #108

Exactly treestar Apr 2014 #122

Not in the slightest, not even remotely Godhumor Apr 2014 #62

OK, that's not an argument Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #63

it is not a think; it is just not Godhumor Apr 2014 #65

That's not an argument either Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #66

Fascism is a tricky word - by Mussolinis definition when haven't we been fascist? el_bryanto Apr 2014 #64

And Jonah Goldberg would argue that liberals are the real fascists Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #68

My preferred definition is Roger Griffins el_bryanto Apr 2014 #73

Ooooh, a new word! Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #77

I think when he was working on it he was trying to define fascist movements el_bryanto Apr 2014 #90

You need to know what Mussolini meant by 'corporatism' and 'corporate power' muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #67

Most quotations are disputed Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #72

But the point is no-one can point to a speech or article in which Mussolini said this muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #97

I somewhat disagree Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #104

No...nt SidDithers Apr 2014 #69

That's not saying why not, it's just making an assertion nt Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #75

Fascism is telling people how to respond to your posts. FSogol Apr 2014 #130

OK, you got a chuckle out of me n/t Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #144

Mission accomplished! FSogol Apr 2014 #149

The folks seated around me taking advantage of the bagel place's free wifi say YES!!!! JoePhilly Apr 2014 #71

And everything they are sending through the free wifi is being recorded somewhere, in case the NSA djean111 Apr 2014 #82

That's paranoia speaking, not facts. randome Apr 2014 #84

Oh, that's not paranoia. I think the NSA is quite up front with scooping up internet djean111 Apr 2014 #86

That's not paranoia Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #94

I think the girl who makes the scones is a part of Anonymous. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #91

Bwah! djean111 Apr 2014 #93

"Corporatism" doesn't mean "government by corporations" Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #81

I've JUST been made aware of that upthread Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #87

The same question was posed in my last poli sci course laundry_queen Apr 2014 #88

Sad to say, I would likely agree Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #100

I definitely agree with that. nt laundry_queen Apr 2014 #111

At the very least, when you ask questions as your header Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #95

I can't post polls Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #98

Oh, I didn't realize Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #102

As far as I can tell Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #105

Yes it is Bettie Apr 2014 #96

Why would they want to? Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #107

Because the current system is messy Bettie Apr 2014 #119

I think your husband is on the right lines Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #133

That's what I'm afraid of Bettie Apr 2014 #137

Probabaly close. Our lower income people (about 90%) are over regulated by local & state gov. Sunlei Apr 2014 #99

No tanks huh? UglyGreed Apr 2014 #117

Most of those are technically APCs Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #129

no. nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #118

I do not know if we are a fascist state. SamKnause Apr 2014 #121

We certainly have many of the elements of Fascism. nt HooptieWagon Apr 2014 #123

In terms of blending state and corporate power, it's rapidly approaching. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #124

I agree with that second part Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #131

No. And on edit: No. n/t FSogol Apr 2014 #128

The schoolchild view of a democracy is long gone and now replaced by a fascist state. Tanks RKP5637 Apr 2014 #134

"Corporate servitude" = "having to show up at work at 9 AM or get into trouble with your boss". Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #139

No, but some people find it edgy to perceive it as so. Throd Apr 2014 #140

I think there are yet too many voices of dissent... LanternWaste Apr 2014 #141

There's a trendy use of the word? Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #143

Both are required. LanternWaste Apr 2014 #145

Yes, it is. Brigid Apr 2014 #142

Is there any way to reverse this? Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #146

Short of torches and pitchforks . . . Brigid Apr 2014 #150

Sadly, I must concur n/t Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #151

Not precisely the fascism of Mussolini's era nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #154

Book has gone on teh Amazon list Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #159

we have been for a while. eom ellenfl Apr 2014 #158