If Trayvon was beating Zimmerman when he was shot ...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

105. That is not the legal standard

Which is reasonable fear of great bodily injury or death. My point was that UNLESS you are in a dojo etc, getting your bell rung, with or without fractures or bleeding may meet the reasonable man standard required for the use of deadly force in self defense.

If you are hit hard enough for it to be fatal, in the dojo or out of it, you got hit. Hard. It may or may not have broken bones, but it would have caused blood to flow.

You need read up on cerebral trauma. There was a recent incident involving some young girls in the Los Angeles area who got in a fight. No blood no apparent injury, and one of the died due to a subdural hematoma. Car accidents and motorcycle accidents can cause the same kind of thing, exterior trauma not required.

If you are the sort of person that could get hit, have no blood to flow, and have no bones broken, I recommend you for the Vampire school of the martial arts, because frankly, people that have actually trained in them for years are going to laugh their ass off at you pretending like you know what a strike in the face designed to break a bone is like.

I welcome your experience claiming that people that get hit in the face don't bleed, and I'll refer you to a radiologist, but there is more than just me on this board that has experience in martial arts, and I have no doubt they will say "I get hit in the nose, and yes, I bleed, so I endeavor not to get hit in the nose".

The point I made was that it is POSSIBLE to break a nose without a shower of blood and black eyes. Lack of them is not proof positive it did not happen. Its not common but I have seen it. IIRC it they were mostly spiral/oblique fractures. That is why to go Radiology and then have the Radiologist tell you if it was broken.

You may not be aware of it, but one of the parameters used in California for deciding how to charge people in fights is if there are broken bones. Assault moves to Assault with GBI if victim has a bone broken and the perp is treat as a violent offender, even before trial.

The rest of your argument may be partially sound, but people that get their nose broken and don't bleed and don't have black eyes? I suggest you've never had either happen to you on either side, and thank heaven you haven't. It's called horse shit.

No its called lack of experience on your part. All, every time, etc are the statements of fools or those without broad experience. Any ER doc will say its rate, but that they have seen it.

If Zimmerman got hit hard enough to be afraid for his life, he would at least have a bloody nose.

With all your Hai Karate experience, you probably know when you get hit how badly you are hurt. That is not true with the untrained. They get their bell rung, not even particularly hard, and they lose focus/control and think they are really hurt or in danger. That is the legal standard which is what matters.

Why defend him? Are you so cowardly that you would rather kill someone than suffer a knick on the chin?

I have not defended him. I have been pointing out that there is practically no information out there that documents if he was hurt other than a police report noting that EMS looked at his injuries. That has recently changed. It was triple posted before we went out for sushi, so I know by now you have seen it. It shows Zimmerman being quite clean at the police station. It is the first piece of real data (vice suppositions of Hai Karate masters) that if he had any injuries they were minor. It is a very good thing.