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pampango

(24,692 posts)

25. I am not familiar with Yglesias' analysis but income inequality is a huge problem and Europe

Thu May 1, 2014, 06:39 AM

May 2014

seems to have dealt with in an effective manner that is accepted and supported by their citizens.

As I said, it seems to me that their society would be even more equitable without a VAT and with more taxes on the rich. I acknowledge that Europeans know their corner of the world better than I do. Perhaps the VAT (similar to our FICA) helps create a sense of ownership of and political support for the resulting safety net that makes it harder for the rich to cut. And the higher income taxes that the rich pay may be harder for their 'republicans' to cut because the middle class pays so much in VAT and wants to see the rich pay more in income taxes to balance that out.

In the context of the OP, I think that European liberals are more supportive of high gas taxes and tolls because the resulting hardship is balanced out by the societal gains and the knowledge that the overall revenue system is one they accept and support.

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Five easy reasons to oppose ObamaTolls [View all] Demo_Chris May 2014 OP

When did this become a party that stopped supporting making driving more expensive? Recursion May 2014 #1

When somebody thinks they can get a hateon Obama and use all kinds of ignorant excuses. Cha May 2014 #2

I'm sure the Five Reasons to Resist ObamaGrazingFees thread is coming. nt msanthrope May 2014 #83

Nailed it. nt Bobbie Jo May 2014 #87

Stolen from another excellent DUer...jberryhill. Hell...I wanna know why no one msanthrope May 2014 #90

And don't get them started on those damned Obama tornadoes! 11 Bravo May 2014 #98

I'm sure the red states will eschew disaster relief and pull thenselves msanthrope May 2014 #102

The topic is the Working Class. But if you're not interested in the topic, you might want to start sabrina 1 May 2014 #113

Who, other than the radical affluent fringe... Demo_Chris May 2014 #4

1. We aren't in the depths of a depression Recursion May 2014 #5

When they tax the 1% like they should Politicalboi May 2014 #6

Jesus! That would hurt the poor much more than Interestate tolls Recursion May 2014 #7

Thank you! LuvNewcastle May 2014 #11

I know the poor drive older cars Politicalboi May 2014 #17

What about motorcycles? LuvNewcastle May 2014 #18

No not $2000 a year, sorry Politicalboi May 2014 #12

That's still more regressive than tolls, though Recursion May 2014 #14

Why charge more to register older cars? Travis_0004 May 2014 #33

What "they" should do.... jberryhill May 2014 #73

Well, I do, but I'm also one of those authoritarian toll-supporters Recursion May 2014 #79

Speak for yourself. Millions of working people ARE in a depression. Good for you if you are not sabrina 1 May 2014 #115

When it became apparent that we may actually have to spend more money... TreasonousBastard May 2014 #9

Our inability (unwillingness) to raise taxes on the rich derails many progressive ideas - pampango May 2014 #20

Hmm... Not sure I agree. Taxes in Europe are pretty damn regressive. Recursion May 2014 #21

The VAT like our FICA is regressive but their income taxes are high and progressive. pampango May 2014 #23

So, the only person who I know has looked at this is Yglesias... Recursion May 2014 #24

I am not familiar with Yglesias' analysis but income inequality is a huge problem and Europe pampango May 2014 #25

And our inability to cut military spending. nt awoke_in_2003 May 2014 #117

When the black President suggested it. nt msanthrope May 2014 #32

You've just accused a majority of Democrats of being racist. DisgustipatedinCA May 2014 #66

When the shoe fits... Recursion May 2014 #67

So you're also accusing anyone who doesn't agree with your thesis of being racist? DisgustipatedinCA May 2014 #70

Well, I can't think of anything different besides the race of the person proposing it Recursion May 2014 #71

The difference is that one of these men is the current PRESIDENT. nt Demo_Chris May 2014 #104

As if that's new? Doctor_J May 2014 #81

They're going to ignore this question as if it wasn't asked... uponit7771 May 2014 #75

I've noticed that too Recursion May 2014 #76

Majority of Democrats? Where? There are about 20-30 posters on DU who are msanthrope May 2014 #74

True that, Red States do not like to pay their fair share to care for their own. bettyellen May 2014 #106

I don't support making driving more expensive and never have. Adrahil May 2014 #64

When did it start? lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #88

Electric cars are less expensive to drive.... By far when you consider the environment, duh. grahamhgreen May 2014 #109

When did our party want to make driving more expensive? ohnoyoudidnt May 2014 #126

Can't be the only one who saw obamatrolls Jesus Malverde May 2014 #3

That's what I saw, too. LuvNewcastle May 2014 #8

Its a bad idea unless your an investor Jesus Malverde May 2014 #13

That's exactly right. It would just be more welfare for the rich. LuvNewcastle May 2014 #19

Lulz Jesus Malverde May 2014 #22

Tolls on roads come in the absence of levying taxes to maintain infrastructure. Skidmore May 2014 #10

^^ This. ^^ intheflow May 2014 #131

Obamatrolls? Oh, it's ObamaTOLLS. blkmusclmachine May 2014 #15

I swear I saw that "r" there myself. It's certainly not inappropriate to have it there. corkhead May 2014 #26

Your post was alerted, believe it or not. 1000words May 2014 #129

Two big reasons to support them: Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #16

There are good ways and bad ways to accomplish those noble goals. Laelth May 2014 #28

The best you can do now is better than nothing now and something at some indeterminate date. Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #31

I disagree with your fundamental analysis. Laelth May 2014 #37

EXACTLY!! What the fuck is going on with the place? Dawgs May 2014 #52

PBO loyalists are just doing what they often do. Laelth May 2014 #54

How about fuel taxes? customerserviceguy May 2014 #40

Sure, but it's also regressive Recursion May 2014 #89

There have been reasons advanced customerserviceguy May 2014 #133

I would agree IF... we had extensive, and good public transportation systems nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #123

This message was self-deleted by its author dionysus May 2014 #128

Why not just increase the gas tax Travis_0004 May 2014 #29

But that doesn't accomplish other key goals. Pholus May 2014 #34

Exactly. I'd wager that both of these points are the actual goals of Nay May 2014 #59

How does that avoid the same criticism? A gas tax is also regressive (nt) Recursion May 2014 #68

The oil companues won't allow it pscot May 2014 #69

Fair to the affluent but costly to the poor! whistler162 May 2014 #95

There are other ways of accomplishing what you are promoting. rhett o rick May 2014 #111

Taxing transport is the only way to get people to drive less and buy more efficient vehicles. Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #116

And what about those.... awoke_in_2003 May 2014 #118

I love it when people say that they know "the only" way. "Taxing transport is the only way" rhett o rick May 2014 #130

How about this one? Laelth May 2014 #27

Not here in the northeast...where we blue states pay for bridges with tolls. nt msanthrope May 2014 #30

Perhaps. Laelth May 2014 #36

I bet those are primarily very red areas....who already aren't pulling their weight. nt msanthrope May 2014 #46

Mostly, yes. Laelth May 2014 #48

Why should they defend?? They should go on offense and demand msanthrope May 2014 #56

As a member of the DPG, I have to defend toll booths if the President proposes them. Laelth May 2014 #57

Go on the offensive.... you are choosing to defend. nt msanthrope May 2014 #58

This Bostonian is quite familiar with avoiding tolls (and their resultant traffic jams) HomerRamone May 2014 #47

Yeah, a tax increase right now is bad timing Doctor_J May 2014 #82

Overall, I have been pleased with Obama in his role as leader of the Democratic Party. Laelth May 2014 #86

Reason #6. Obama's proposing it!... SidDithers May 2014 #35

I honestly hope this is a bluff from the President. Laelth May 2014 #38

Well, yeah, if it's a bluff it's a stupid one. nt Nay May 2014 #60

Already... chervilant May 2014 #39

Poor people would be hurt. That should be reason enough. Lars39 May 2014 #41

They will do anything to avoid raising taxes on the wealthy. n/t Bonhomme Richard May 2014 #42

How would you suggest raising taxes on the wealthy when the GOP obstructs it every time? randome May 2014 #62

He should have done nothing and let the Bush tax cuts FULLY expire. SMC22307 May 2014 #119

if they are going to do this why not just hang an anchor around the neck of every Dem running ? KurtNYC May 2014 #43

I support tolls, if... Android3.14 May 2014 #44

F. 99Forever May 2014 #45

Frank lUntz testeD terminology alcibiades_mystery May 2014 #49

In answer to B & D, ever hear of open road tolling? eom MohRokTah May 2014 #50

Ever hear of a fifteen-dollar gallon of milk? How about a five dollar pack of gum? Ikonoklast May 2014 #132

I was under the impression that I already paid tolls to drive on interstates notadmblnd May 2014 #51

The ONLY acceptable way to charge for driving is making it progressive, not regressive. Dawgs May 2014 #53

For me, this one is visceral. woo me with science May 2014 #55

Had to log on just to give you a +1 for this comment. NCTraveler May 2014 #93

+2 Woo. bvar22 May 2014 #122

k/r some people get it nationalize the fed May 2014 #61

Your Point C is idiotic paranoia. randome May 2014 #63

Yeah. cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #91

So many of the Interstates back east are already toll roads alcibiades_mystery May 2014 #65

The northeast has had a massive exodux Harmony Blue May 2014 #72

Ohio and Indiana aren't the northeast alcibiades_mystery May 2014 #77

I think Exodux is a Pokemon jberryhill May 2014 #80

"ObamaToll"? Did Sean Hannitty coin that term? Throd May 2014 #78

Frank lUntz testeD alcibiades_mystery May 2014 #92

Pres. Obama's dumbest idea ever. MrTriumph May 2014 #84

Getting labor to work is a function of business and commerce. lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #85

+1. n/t Laelth May 2014 #94

Cue the paid apologists bobduca May 2014 #96

6 it is an issue easy for the rethugs to frame and use as a club dembotoz May 2014 #97

Change you can toss in! nt HomerRamone May 2014 #99

You win this thread. nt Demo_Chris May 2014 #105

I think we should increase gasoline tax. ZombieHorde May 2014 #100

Reason number six. Pure politics. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #101

Conservatives are opposing the tolls too IronLionZion May 2014 #103

The problem is that if we cant get the 1% to pay their way, we are screwed. Why should be build rhett o rick May 2014 #114

You can add to D with JoeyT May 2014 #107

We are serfs, we are the labor for wealthy corporations. dilby May 2014 #108

I'll give you three out of five of those. progressoid May 2014 #110

My easy solution? Cut military spending, divert to roads. But Nooooo. The Straight Story May 2014 #112

Another Sign Of Who Obama Really Is colsohlibgal May 2014 #120

Give me a break. WHO doesn't want to tax babylonsister May 2014 #121

That post seemed accurate to me dreamnightwind May 2014 #136

F. Privatizing the roads will come soon after neverforget May 2014 #124

krecc Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #125

yes, that debbil "Obush", as i believe you called him, invented the concept of toll roads. dionysus May 2014 #127

Even worse than that! greatauntoftriplets May 2014 #134

How does your strawman address anything I wrote? nt Demo_Chris May 2014 #135