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In reply to the discussion: Nader wants the most Progressive on the left, who barely tolerate Democrats, to join Libertarians? [View all]woo me with science
(32,139 posts)5. Best post on this I have seen, by DUer DirkGently.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4890996
... There's no danger in finding points of agreement.
That is a specious proposal, like blackballing playwrights for being Commie sympathizers.
"Look out! That person's dogma is unclean!"
Bullshit.
No one is an ideological robot with secret programming you can uncover. And no ideology is 100% clear or consistent across the board.
So the whole game of shooting something down because a Paul family member agrees with it, on the theory that the Paul family has a lot of stupid ideas, or the mangled vision of Libertarianism some people claim to embrace is terrible, is a disingenuous premise from the beginning.
There are Republicans that are occasionally right about something across ideological lines. There are Democrats who are wrong.
No one's magically correct or incorrect because of the supposed point of view they may or may not fully embrace, which people may or may not even agree upon in the first place.
This has been applied in a particularly putrid way with the Snowden / NSA battles here on DU, and I notice the cross-posted material goes out of its way to bring that up.
The only thing that makes sense is to discuss the viability of ideas and policy on their own. No one is the Keeper of the True Faith. No one is an apostate or heretic.
No one is wrong about one thing because they're wrong about something else.
Sorry, Rand and Ron can be racists, and free-market morons, and crypto-anti-reproductive rights-ians, and still be right that the NSA overstepped its bounds or that the U.S. should stay of out needless wars in the Middle East. No one has to embrace the rest of their bullshit to clock them or anyone else being right about something.
If you don't acknowledge that, you're just asking people to engage in mindless partisan head-butting until the the end of time. We'd be stuck agreeing with every Democrat who's wrong and fighting everyone else, no matter what.
... There's no danger in finding points of agreement.
That is a specious proposal, like blackballing playwrights for being Commie sympathizers.
"Look out! That person's dogma is unclean!"
Bullshit.
No one is an ideological robot with secret programming you can uncover. And no ideology is 100% clear or consistent across the board.
So the whole game of shooting something down because a Paul family member agrees with it, on the theory that the Paul family has a lot of stupid ideas, or the mangled vision of Libertarianism some people claim to embrace is terrible, is a disingenuous premise from the beginning.
There are Republicans that are occasionally right about something across ideological lines. There are Democrats who are wrong.
No one's magically correct or incorrect because of the supposed point of view they may or may not fully embrace, which people may or may not even agree upon in the first place.
This has been applied in a particularly putrid way with the Snowden / NSA battles here on DU, and I notice the cross-posted material goes out of its way to bring that up.
The only thing that makes sense is to discuss the viability of ideas and policy on their own. No one is the Keeper of the True Faith. No one is an apostate or heretic.
No one is wrong about one thing because they're wrong about something else.
Sorry, Rand and Ron can be racists, and free-market morons, and crypto-anti-reproductive rights-ians, and still be right that the NSA overstepped its bounds or that the U.S. should stay of out needless wars in the Middle East. No one has to embrace the rest of their bullshit to clock them or anyone else being right about something.
If you don't acknowledge that, you're just asking people to engage in mindless partisan head-butting until the the end of time. We'd be stuck agreeing with every Democrat who's wrong and fighting everyone else, no matter what.
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Nader wants the most Progressive on the left, who barely tolerate Democrats, to join Libertarians? [View all]
stevenleser
May 2014
OP
I'm really surprised at this one. Libertarians are corporatists pure and simple. You would think
stevenleser
May 2014
#2
100% right on! Libertarians are corporatists, and Ralph Nadar is a shadow of his former self.
DrewFlorida
May 2014
#102
And yet the irony is he's suggesting that Libertarians should join together with progressives
pnwmom
May 2014
#70
There are stylistic differences between individuals, and a few substantive differences
BlueStreak
May 2014
#87
What can we Democrats do to reign in Corporations and Wall Street to thwart the libertarians?
KoKo
May 2014
#31
See #'s 104 and 106 below. Clearly some progressives are giving it serious thought. nt
stevenleser
May 2014
#110
Neither of those posts indicate that a progressive is thinking of voting for Paul,
winter is coming
May 2014
#114
And thats the few areas where there is seemingly some agreement between the philosophies
stevenleser
May 2014
#111
Nader said all that and more in an interview concerning a book he has coming out
stevenleser
May 2014
#11
It's been the big topic on DU for the last 48 hours so I thought everyone had seen it.
stevenleser
May 2014
#19
Doesn't sound like he actually even understands what a libertarian is.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
May 2014
#30
I saw things like this from some Progressives when the Tea Party started in 2009 and also in 2007
stevenleser
May 2014
#37
Correct. Libertarians would have Tea Party support and the support of Large corporate donors.
stevenleser
May 2014
#24
No straw man or other logical fallacy involved. This is what Nader is pushing. nt
stevenleser
May 2014
#51
Except, calling Libertarians distrustful of corporations is stretching it, I think.
stevenleser
May 2014
#29
For the past 30 years, Ralph Nader has been a NEGATIVE force in American politics
scheming daemons
May 2014
#34
And once it's talked through, I think that is where Progressives come down on this issue
stevenleser
May 2014
#45
I voted for Nader back in 2000... he was cool back then but now he is simply pathetic.
DCBob
May 2014
#49
My understanding is that Nader believes it is already too late for anything else.
salib
May 2014
#59
I eagerly await his next book, proposing an alliance between the NAACP and the KKK (nt)
jeff47
May 2014
#63
On Monday, Nader was on "Democracy Now!" talking about how trade agreements reduce sovereignty
Algernon Moncrieff
May 2014
#66
Political libertarians do not understand the fundamentals of running the government.
Rex
May 2014
#74
marijuana reform needs to continue to mainstream. joining a coalition with code pink, nader
arely staircase
May 2014
#83
I know exactly what a strawman and the other logical fallacies are. You changed my argument
stevenleser
May 2014
#100
If he advocated for progressives who barely tolerate Democrats to join the Greens, he would
Zorra
May 2014
#103
As much as I would hate it, at least it wouldn't be completely illogical from an ideology
stevenleser
May 2014
#105
Yes, you did miss the point, and you are an example of whom Nader is targeting. nt
stevenleser
May 2014
#113
Just about everyone can find a couple of areas of agreement. That is not the point.
stevenleser
May 2014
#108
You would have a point if that was not how people self-identify. Moreover...
stevenleser
May 2014
#117