General Discussion

fasttense

(17,301 posts)

108. It is deliberately taking away your liberty

Reply to woo me with science (Original post)

Thu May 1, 2014, 10:09 AM

May 2014

In the old feudal kingdoms, serfs were never allowed to wander away from their farms or mills or place of work. Children were required by law, and force, to take up their parents trade. They had no choice in the matter. A serf found outside his allowed area would be hunted down and punished. It was called abandonment. So, when feudalism transformed into capitalism (after passing through a slavery economy in certain parts of the world) liberty, the right to go wherever you want, was very important. It was even inscribed into our constitution.

But today you need a passports to leave the country. You have to pay to get away from your assigned area. You need money to pay for a car, taxi, bus, airplane or train if they are available. Frequently the only form of transportation is a car. But you are forced to buy overpriced insurance for that car. Gasoline is the only easily available fuel that costs more and more each day. You are then taxed with wheel and registration fees. And now in many parts of the country you must also have money available to pay to use the king's roads.

Most Americans pay a big price for their liberty and that's just the way the kings and queens of America like it.

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They are taking away our open highways [View all] woo me with science May 2014 OP

I87 in NYS is a toll road. I84 is not. otherone May 2014 #1

I get the impression... jberryhill May 2014 #5

Or in Northern Illinois. greatauntoftriplets May 2014 #9

I've been sitting here for two days, wondering... jberryhill May 2014 #12

Well, it has that "I" in the name. greatauntoftriplets May 2014 #18

Or across Kansas. SheilaT May 2014 #100

lol. I didnt even know there were highways WITHOUT tolls! bunnies May 2014 #105

I know, right jberryhill May 2014 #107

I travelled 18000+ miles last year. progressoid May 2014 #144

Damn. We have 12 in tiny little NH. bunnies May 2014 #145

Here in Ark. I think (remembering what grandpa said) that it is in the Highway Charter Hestia May 2014 #127

Parts of I-95, 76, 80, 294, 90, 355 are toll as are many bridges/tunnels on other interstates FarCenter May 2014 #22

I77/I64 in West Virginia and I70 in Kansas liberal N proud May 2014 #38

That I77/I64 section started out as the West Virginia Turnpike. Lasher May 2014 #103

I 87 from NYC to Albany is toll. Scruffy Rumbler May 2014 #129

How old are they? Tolls are for paying off initial construction. kristopher May 2014 #247

America is a faded dream in many many ways. n/t RKP5637 May 2014 #2

+1 There have been a lot of vicious, malignant betrayals lately. woo me with science May 2014 #7

You realize that someone's gotta fix those highways, right?? msanthrope May 2014 #16

Without tolls, they might have to start taxing gasoline. Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #30

BINGO! liberal N proud May 2014 #42

*Thank* you. woo me with science May 2014 #44

Sure. Get a gas increase through the current Congress. Let me know how it msanthrope May 2014 #62

Compare what we pay for gasoline to Europe. Oh, wait…. KittyWampus May 2014 #70

Exactly. Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #73

Gasoline taxes in Europe pay for health care and other social services. djean111 May 2014 #186

And that's... better? Less regressive? Less of a burden to the poor? Recursion May 2014 #77

In some ways yes, it's better. Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #84

I know the Federal one does already, I think many states do Recursion May 2014 #89

Yeah, in some places the infrastructure is already in place. Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #101

Look, I'm not riding up on my horse and saying toll roads are the best possible idea Recursion May 2014 #104

I agree that that need is urgent. Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #110

Here in this state tractor trailers don't pay their fair share (thanks legislature) and are allowed Hestia May 2014 #130

Heh! SammyWinstonJack May 2014 #92

How would that be better? gcomeau May 2014 #93

Do you really think those prospective tolls won't go right into China or Saudi Arabia's AzDar May 2014 #86

I surrender to your genius. GeorgeGist May 2014 #178

It's better that way. AzDar May 2014 #181

sob, sob, you're celebrating the death of freedom!111!1!!eleventy! dionysus May 2014 #170

Kerouac wouldn't have paid tolls!!! nt msanthrope May 2014 #182

You do realize that there are blue states without tolls, don't you? dixiegrrrrl May 2014 #197

The first thing I noticed in the Northeast nilesobek May 2014 #27

Living in today's America is like living in a huge corporation with RKP5637 May 2014 #32

Yup, too busy trying to survive. woo me with science May 2014 #49

As one of my friends says, what does one do. We work and work trying to stay afloat, many of RKP5637 May 2014 #69

I pay tolls on almost all interstates already... Agschmid May 2014 #46

Might as well ruin it for the rest of the country! bobduca May 2014 #115

No, the race to the bottom is being done by states who refuse to raise enough revenues to pay Recursion May 2014 #117

+1 Agschmid May 2014 #123

I hope CT has cleaned up its act 2naSalit May 2014 #135

I remember an overpass in Bridgeport melted in 2005 Recursion May 2014 #137

I also recall 2naSalit May 2014 #142

Kansas has tolls. Our roads still stuck.n/t BuelahWitch May 2014 #141

It seems to me MyOwnPeace May 2014 #167

Our standard of living peaked in 1968 KurtNYC May 2014 #39

Yes. It is a systemic problem. woo me with science May 2014 #52

When one has a severely skewed capitalistic system, all the wealth at RKP5637 May 2014 #58

Just think of toll booths as checkpoints nationalize the fed May 2014 #3

Sure, but... jberryhill May 2014 #6

Don't forget that the NSA can monitor you with EZPass. You are stasi if you have one. nt msanthrope May 2014 #10

No wonder Hitler liked the autobahn! jberryhill May 2014 #13

You mock...but I remember an episode of Law&Order where someone's alibi for murder msanthrope May 2014 #26

Maybe don't commit murder then... Agschmid May 2014 #50

What's next? Grazing fees? jberryhill May 2014 #53

Thank you....that's what I've thought all along. nt msanthrope May 2014 #65

Evil Gubmint Encroacherz!1! Bobbie Jo May 2014 #116

The HORROR! greatauntoftriplets May 2014 #20

They will be used as Homeland Security checkpoints. woo me with science May 2014 #14

A pedestrian hacker can hijack a baby monitor in your home, for pity sake. Skidmore May 2014 #33

Nope. Agschmid May 2014 #51

ALCOA! FSogol May 2014 #140

Industrial strength Bobbie Jo May 2014 #246

Great prophecies... LanternWaste May 2014 #149

"I remember reading about it sometime back." hoooookay alex jones.... dionysus May 2014 #173

Did you see the website that this image came from? Generic Other May 2014 #225

I support thie move to tolling. MohRokTah May 2014 #4

Red states need to pay their fair share. nt msanthrope May 2014 #11

Of course you do. woo me with science May 2014 #15

That's a ludicrous statement. eom MohRokTah May 2014 #21

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service ChisolmTrailDem May 2014 #82

Wow, alerting on facts. What's next? JimDandy May 2014 #126

And now a ludicrous accusation. MohRokTah May 2014 #128

Thank you for posting this. :) woo me with science May 2014 #153

Never driven in the northeast, huh??? Pay your freight...the bridges don't fix themselves. nt msanthrope May 2014 #8

And here comes the mocking. woo me with science May 2014 #17

Paying your fair share is completely defensible. You wanna drive on I95??? msanthrope May 2014 #19

No, you will not divert this into a discussion about paying. woo me with science May 2014 #24

It's already a discussion about paying....a toll. But why are you msanthrope May 2014 #28

Plus.... jberryhill May 2014 #36

See....it's possible to get across America avoiding major highways!!! msanthrope May 2014 #61

"There's no trick to it, it's just a simple trick!" bobduca May 2014 #96

This shows the unfairness of tolls Travis_0004 May 2014 #234

id rather none of us paid tolls TheFarseer May 2014 #262

well, you can stick to surface streets.... snooper2 May 2014 #57

and a much more scenic trip. whistler162 May 2014 #81

If they get this one through... awoke_in_2003 May 2014 #165

We already pay our fair share christx30 May 2014 #99

No...the red states don't pay their fair share for 1-95 or their bridges or roads. msanthrope May 2014 #121

+ 330 million nationalize the fed May 2014 #23

Emigration, lol jberryhill May 2014 #41

You have absolutely *no idea* where I've driven nationalize the fed May 2014 #64

Ok... I've paid highway tolls... jberryhill May 2014 #71

Iceland. But don't hit any sheep because you're liable to the farmer who owns it. adirondacker May 2014 #219

It's a Living bobduca May 2014 #95

It's become more and more childish though, have you noticed? To me that says either sabrina 1 May 2014 #250

Tolls on Interstate highways have been around for MineralMan May 2014 #25

The "road less taken" ...(if you have time) SoCalDem May 2014 #34

Yes. For long, pre-planned trips, it's easy to plan around MineralMan May 2014 #48

Did a quick check and it appears there are no non-toll ways across the Hudson south of Albany FarCenter May 2014 #76

The alternate routes are where it's at. LuvNewcastle May 2014 #47

I agree. Now, if I'm doing a trip across the entire MineralMan May 2014 #55

You'll love Highway 61 down towards NOLA. Be sure and tour a couple of the old homes that are Hestia May 2014 #132

Thanks! We've been the full length of Hwy 61 in Minnesota, MineralMan May 2014 #150

You speak as though it will be optional for the poor. woo me with science May 2014 #56

? LuvNewcastle May 2014 #98

There is no need for corporations tolling our JimDandy May 2014 #134

no offense mm but sure for you with all the time and resources questionseverything May 2014 #146

I'm not sure who you think I am, really. MineralMan May 2014 #151

affluent compared to the kochs,no questionseverything May 2014 #200

Free roads are readily available. They always have been. MineralMan May 2014 #201

the discussion is about that being changed questionseverything May 2014 #207

Well, you're going to pay to cross the Hudson River, for sure. MineralMan May 2014 #208

Depends how you measure success, really. MineralMan May 2014 #209

we also are in the work til we drop club questionseverything May 2014 #213

Oh, the humanity! Skidmore May 2014 #29

This is the best response I have seen so far. giftedgirl77 May 2014 #31

Outrage ... first, last, and always!!!!! JoePhilly May 2014 #45

Sure I can. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #85

Simply not liking something doesn't solve the problem. Skidmore May 2014 #102

So if the winter gets too cold, will you Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #109

Hear, hear! n/t Laelth May 2014 #155

But how will we get rid of them BuelahWitch May 2014 #162

You're exactly right. I have seen no toll roads or bridges here in darkest Mississippi Glorfindel May 2014 #88

This message was self-deleted by its author pa28 May 2014 #168

Yay logic! Agschmid May 2014 #195

Well said... SidDithers May 2014 #204

Oh, this is definitely America! sofa king May 2014 #35

Thanks for the history. LuvNewcastle May 2014 #74

Yep, remember this, too: sofa king May 2014 #80

Excellent point. LuvNewcastle May 2014 #106

Your first 2 sentences should be repeated. laundry_queen May 2014 #87

You'd think DUers would get it, but I don't know where their LuvNewcastle May 2014 #113

And how many toll roads on the interstate currently exist? randome May 2014 #118

I have no idea. I've never been on one. LuvNewcastle May 2014 #120

2900 miles of toll roads according to Wikipedia. randome May 2014 #124

I agree that our infrastructure needs it desperately, but I LuvNewcastle May 2014 #131

Toll roads taught me a lot about time. sofa king May 2014 #184

i think all the DUers supporting this TheFarseer May 2014 #264

Thanks for the history. Interesting read. KittyWampus May 2014 #125

Look, the blue states are tired of paying for the red states' bridges Recursion May 2014 #37

Do they really not know there have been tolls on interstates for eons? jberryhill May 2014 #43

Blue state tolls are paying for Red states' bridges? progressoid May 2014 #147

No, their gas and income taxes are Recursion May 2014 #148

Tolls are a regressive tax, but more importantly, during an election year, are political suicide. progressoid May 2014 #152

I feel sorry for the small mom and pop shops they will be hit hard Harmony Blue May 2014 #40

You are not a citizen to be served. You are a resource to be exploited. lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #54

+100000 There is no excuse for it. woo me with science May 2014 #75

The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Own And Control The Politicians That Own And Control Us cantbeserious May 2014 #91

Open highways, Open internet.... Triana May 2014 #59

Everything. woo me with science May 2014 #66

DU believes toll roads are a sign of Big Brother, and Moron America is winning. baldguy May 2014 #60

+1 jberryhill May 2014 #63

LOL! I live in NY and paying tolls was a big factor in me taking train into Manhattan. KittyWampus May 2014 #67

Some DU'ers already were jberryhill May 2014 #72

Demand ProSense May 2014 #68

So you would rather tax the poor who whistler162 May 2014 #78

The OP Is interested only in finding new ways to express faux outrage scheming daemons May 2014 #122

Yup... whistler162 May 2014 #139

I know right? This Libertarian slant of DU is getting ridiculous VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #187

I guess you've never been to Tampa huh, or giftedgirl77 May 2014 #79

This is America. oldandhappy May 2014 #83

So your idea of America... philosslayer May 2014 #90

Yeh, it's really sad, we needed a progressive revolution cure, but we got corparasitism infection. Zorra May 2014 #94

There will always be roads to travel for free. cbayer May 2014 #97

It is deliberately taking away your liberty fasttense May 2014 #108

"But today you need a passports to leave the country." jberryhill May 2014 #114

I stand corrected fasttense May 2014 #185

We already paid for these highways when they were built! Dustlawyer May 2014 #111

Exactly. They are part of the commons. n/t Cleita May 2014 #143

They were never built as part of the commons but to primarily serve commerce and the military. ancianita May 2014 #233

That's the past. It's time to recognize that most of the earth belongs Cleita May 2014 #235

You don't understand. Stewardship is about nature, not highways. Go ahead. Knock yourself out. ancianita May 2014 #237

I cannot do what you ask alone . Many others want it to happen and can't do it alone. Cleita May 2014 #239

Meme? Seriously? This is Reality. You can't just ignorantly claim that highways are The Commons. ancianita May 2014 #240

I guess I'm just stupid compared to everyone else. Cleita May 2014 #242

Of course we did. And we pay gas taxes, too. woo me with science May 2014 #154

and you would rather increase taxes on gas? VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #188

Maintenance of them has to be paid for too..... they don't just stay in perfect condition forever scheming daemons May 2014 #157

Gas taxes and vehicle registration cover maintenance. Dustlawyer May 2014 #161

and taxing EVERYONE more for gas effects EVERYONE not just those that use the Interstate. VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #189

and raising those taxes everyone...not JUST those that use the Interstate System VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #191

You forgot to add whistler162 May 2014 #198

Couple of questions SwankyXomb May 2014 #112

Privatize the profits bobduca May 2014 #119

What's next? Sidewalk permits? L0oniX May 2014 #133

Why not? It's for safety. You'll need insurance too nationalize the fed May 2014 #136

I'm thinking of putting a toll booth at the beginning of our Cleita May 2014 #138

Great post. woo me with science May 2014 #159

Okay.....do it then.... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #190

I don't understand all the support bullsnarfle May 2014 #156

"Discussion" in neoAmerica is no longer what it appears to be. woo me with science May 2014 #158

I do, it is the people that agree on just about everything. Rex May 2014 #160

And people are generally willing to pay bullsnarfle May 2014 #163

Some of us like having infrastructure paid for Recursion May 2014 #183

So the rich won't pay taxes, so screw the poor instead? U4ikLefty May 2014 #164

calling posters on DU "punks" is pretty offensive don't you think VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #192

It's always fun to watch "progressives" line up to yell JoeyT May 2014 #166

Don't forget the coup de grace where the toll rights are sold to some private company. JVS May 2014 #171

you've outdone youself with the melodrama on this one... dionysus May 2014 #169

I thought I saw the DU domain weeping bitterly and the servers looking suicidal Number23 May 2014 #174

Actually, you are very wrong on this. woo me with science May 2014 #194

You will still have the highways, just not the interstates. giftedgirl77 May 2014 #202

There's always an excuse woo me with science May 2014 #203

I was pointing out that the roads need funding to be giftedgirl77 May 2014 #206

Of course the interstates are being taken away, and of course the poor will be affected. woo me with science May 2014 #210

I was pointing to you specifically. giftedgirl77 May 2014 #211

You are flailing here. woo me with science May 2014 #212

This is the last time I try & explain it to you.... giftedgirl77 May 2014 #214

Yes, you are repeating yourself, woo me with science May 2014 #215

Call it what you want.... giftedgirl77 May 2014 #224

Hey, money has to be made, and who better to take it from than the working class? sabrina 1 May 2014 #172

doesn't raising gas taxes tax the working class? VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #193

So we can pay 2 taxes or "fees": gas taxes AND tolls. neverforget May 2014 #220

Or the other option....we keep letting infrastructure fall apart....there is that! VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #221

And did I say anything about letting it fall apart? No. neverforget May 2014 #223

so in what way does raising the gas tax not effect the poor? VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #226

It's a regressive tax I agree. But paying 2 taxes instead of 1 makes it possible to raise taxes neverforget May 2014 #227

You speaking in "if's" now..... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #228

If? It's happening now. Corporations are buying roads because governments are strapped for cash neverforget May 2014 #230

Is it paying for the shortfall on infrastructure or not? VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #252

Do you have a reading problem? Seriously, I gave you a solution but you chose to ignore it neverforget May 2014 #255

Yeah if I have to decide between Middle Class people paying for tolls VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #257

So the roads become only for those able to pay the toll price. neverforget May 2014 #258

not every road is going to become a toll road VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #259

Right and the poorer people shouldn't be able to drive on them because they neverforget May 2014 #260

As i stated earlier....the poorest people....don't have much money for gas to be driving on the VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #261

So you just dismiss them. The lack of empathy is noted. neverforget May 2014 #263

Maybe if we spent those taxes on infrastructure instead of on Drones and Wars and Spying sabrina 1 May 2014 #249

But there is only ONE WAY! TOLLS!!!!! neverforget May 2014 #256

Privatization is next. neverforget May 2014 #175

You are absolutely correct. woo me with science May 2014 #199

Yep. HooptieWagon May 2014 #238

Everyone SHOULD know this, elleng May 2014 #176

The highway takes its toll. The green light flashes go. And it's ... DreamGypsy May 2014 #177

Reagan Democrats ... GeorgeGist May 2014 #179

Indiana had a toll road and the republican governor sold it to B Calm May 2014 #180

+1 The history of toll roads is a history of lying, woo me with science May 2014 #196

OR you could look at it through another lens that gives a bit of history on highway capacity upkeep: ancianita May 2014 #216

I do think corruption, through deep-rooted corporatization, is endemic to running this country now. woo me with science May 2014 #217

Infrastructure has never been free. How much of it can realistically be supported by both feds and ancianita May 2014 #218

Many false arguments here. This is not "a fear" that something is being taken away. woo me with science May 2014 #231

Well, first of all, I thought I was in a discussion, not an argument. ancianita May 2014 #232

It is a discussion. You don't have to be arguing belligerently woo me with science May 2014 #245

Must have been time for another spin of the ... SidDithers May 2014 #205

Yes indeed. I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning onenote May 2014 #229

In Southern California, diamond lanes have morphed into pay to ride fast lanes.... zonkers May 2014 #222

You are right, but now, we the people are beginning to hold Cleita May 2014 #236

But not everyone in the other 49 states holds the same cards Californians do. And they might have to ancianita May 2014 #241

Yeah. Cleita May 2014 #243

i call bullshit on every person on this thread who says they already pay tolls SwampG8r May 2014 #244

I don't understand your post... Agschmid May 2014 #248

from the wikipedia history of I90 in mass SwampG8r May 2014 #265

Sometimes this place is one Turbineguy May 2014 #251

And toll booths will undoubtedly have scanners Warpy May 2014 #253

Yes, the surveillance and control aspects of this are disturbing as hell, too. woo me with science May 2014 #254