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BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)

87. There are stylistic differences between individuals, and a few substantive differences

Thu May 1, 2014, 10:45 PM

May 2014

but it is absurd at this point to argue that the system is not rigged to preserve the status quo for the oligarchs.

If you are talking about good intentions, I am with you. If you are talking about actual results, not so much. I will simply note that not a single 2008 bankster has been prosecuted. Gitmo is still in business. The insurance companies and Big Pharma are still in charge of our HC system, and the we are nowhere on climate change.

I will stipulate that we would probably be even worse off with President Romney, but really, how different could it be?

What Nader is talking about is what would be necessary in order to assemble a coalition strong enough to actually turn back the oligarchs. I am not saying his prescription will work, but I don't think any of us should be very satisfied with the Obama years, no matter how much we admire President Obama's efforts.

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Nader wants the most Progressive on the left, who barely tolerate Democrats, to join Libertarians? [View all] stevenleser May 2014 OP

Nader needs to retire his mouth. nt onehandle May 2014 #1

I'm really surprised at this one. Libertarians are corporatists pure and simple. You would think stevenleser May 2014 #2

100% right on! Libertarians are corporatists, and Ralph Nadar is a shadow of his former self. DrewFlorida May 2014 #102

It is inaccurate to call Nader a libertarian BlueStreak May 2014 #3

I never called him a libertarian. nt stevenleser May 2014 #13

He advocates many things that are in the libertarian sphere NobodyHere May 2014 #60

And yet the irony is he's suggesting that Libertarians should join together with progressives pnwmom May 2014 #70

He isn't promoting Rand Paul BlueStreak May 2014 #85

Tweedledee and Tweedledum -- right, like Al Gore and George Bush. pnwmom May 2014 #86

There are stylistic differences between individuals, and a few substantive differences BlueStreak May 2014 #87

Fuck Ralph Nader Major Nikon May 2014 #4

Spoken llike a man pscot May 2014 #9

Even if I had I don't put much stock in anecdotal evidence Major Nikon May 2014 #25

I owned one pscot May 2014 #64

Nader made none of those claims Major Nikon May 2014 #75

Yes. He was. And I'm as grateful as you are for that. aquart May 2014 #77

It's true that he's a bit mad now pscot May 2014 #80

Best post on this I have seen, by DUer DirkGently. woo me with science May 2014 #5

"There's no danger in finding points of agreement. ProSense May 2014 #6

But an alliance with Billy Tauzin pscot May 2014 #10

WTH are you talking about? ProSense May 2014 #22

Pearls before swine.. pscot May 2014 #12

I largely agree with this ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #14

Nader is proposing a broad Libertarian-Progressive coalition stevenleser May 2014 #17

What can we Democrats do to reign in Corporations and Wall Street to thwart the libertarians? KoKo May 2014 #31

The two things I would recommend would be stevenleser May 2014 #48

Capital gains and dividend tax. Lasher May 2014 #90

I agree and usually lump them together. stevenleser May 2014 #91

I figured you were using shorthand, nothing wrong with that. Lasher May 2014 #92

Nader has another brilliant solution to that: get a billionaire to run. pnwmom May 2014 #71

I think you miss the point of his thesis BlueStreak May 2014 #56

No, I didn't. I know where the potential areas for agreement are. stevenleser May 2014 #57

"They" is a big word BlueStreak May 2014 #84

I've seen zero indication that Progressives are interested. winter is coming May 2014 #97

See #'s 104 and 106 below. Clearly some progressives are giving it serious thought. nt stevenleser May 2014 #110

Neither of those posts indicate that a progressive is thinking of voting for Paul, winter is coming May 2014 #114

What Mr Gently doesn't address Ratty May 2014 #53

And thats the few areas where there is seemingly some agreement between the philosophies stevenleser May 2014 #111

It is all about keeping us divided. zeemike May 2014 #55

+1000000 You nailed it. woo me with science May 2014 #67

Beautifully stated. That should be its own OP. n/t winter is coming May 2014 #118

Great response ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #7

What did I miss? Where is this supposition coming from? Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #8

Nader said all that and more in an interview concerning a book he has coming out stevenleser May 2014 #11

Thanks for the link. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #16

It's been the big topic on DU for the last 48 hours so I thought everyone had seen it. stevenleser May 2014 #19

Heh, I've been under a rock, I guess. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #21

I put a video up of Nader on Democracy Now where he explains it. stevenleser May 2014 #27

Doesn't sound like he actually even understands what a libertarian is. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #30

I saw things like this from some Progressives when the Tea Party started in 2009 and also in 2007 stevenleser May 2014 #37

Oh I wouldn't agree to voting for any CANDIDATE. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #38

Well, as ProSense notes upthread, that happens now. stevenleser May 2014 #42

The danger is ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #20

Correct. Libertarians would have Tea Party support and the support of Large corporate donors. stevenleser May 2014 #24

And, or should I say, BUT ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #41

I agree 100%, see my #45 below regarding Bernie Sanders. stevenleser May 2014 #46

It's a stupid straw man Doctor_J May 2014 #50

No straw man or other logical fallacy involved. This is what Nader is pushing. nt stevenleser May 2014 #51

Nader wants attention and you're giving it to him. hobbit709 May 2014 #15

My not composing an OP will not prevent it from being discussed. stevenleser May 2014 #18

every time Nader gets involved demigoddess May 2014 #23

Pretty hard to argue with that. stevenleser May 2014 #32

Well, if what you say is true Capt. Obvious May 2014 #26

In that twilight neverland where the anarcho-syndicalists meet Ayn Rand? FarCenter May 2014 #28

Except, calling Libertarians distrustful of corporations is stretching it, I think. stevenleser May 2014 #29

At least part of the libertarians want to abolish limited liability FarCenter May 2014 #33

Interesting. Do you have a link? I would like to see that. nt stevenleser May 2014 #43

Big government and big business are symbionts FarCenter May 2014 #54

For the past 30 years, Ralph Nader has been a NEGATIVE force in American politics scheming daemons May 2014 #34

.... 2banon May 2014 #39

Thanks for the video... n/t 2banon May 2014 #35

I think he's trying to shake the trees and liven up the debate to get people KoKo May 2014 #36

While I may agree with the Libertarian view on the NSA, I can't stomach octoberlib May 2014 #40

And once it's talked through, I think that is where Progressives come down on this issue stevenleser May 2014 #45

There are no liberals who take this seriously whatchamacallit May 2014 #44

yep frylock May 2014 #68

I find the Libertarian ideology revolting and horrifying YoungDemCA May 2014 #47

I voted for Nader back in 2000... he was cool back then but now he is simply pathetic. DCBob May 2014 #49

Sorry, but he wasn't really cool then either. nt Walk away May 2014 #52

I was going to make a snarky comment about dementia... Jeff In Milwaukee May 2014 #58

My understanding is that Nader believes it is already too late for anything else. salib May 2014 #59

A couple of points in response stevenleser May 2014 #61

When will he be starting NaderUnderground? JoePhilly May 2014 #62

I eagerly await his next book, proposing an alliance between the NAACP and the KKK (nt) jeff47 May 2014 #63

And to make that even worse, JoeyT May 2014 #65

On Monday, Nader was on "Democracy Now!" talking about how trade agreements reduce sovereignty Algernon Moncrieff May 2014 #66

Ralph, I've always been a fan of yours... Blue_Tires May 2014 #69

Fuck the libertarians mwrguy May 2014 #72

I doubt this will go anywhere, for reasons. Starry Messenger May 2014 #73

Political libertarians do not understand the fundamentals of running the government. Rex May 2014 #74

Nader is the ass who thinks the parties are identical. aquart May 2014 #76

Nader Can Kiss My Ass. n/t fredamae May 2014 #78

Nader just wants to sell books. herding cats May 2014 #79

Fuck Nader. Iggo May 2014 #81

One thing most Democrats share with this far left liberal? Generic Other May 2014 #82

marijuana reform needs to continue to mainstream. joining a coalition with code pink, nader arely staircase May 2014 #83

Fuck Nader...nt SidDithers May 2014 #88

maybe Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #89

What bullshit LondonReign2 May 2014 #93

Not it's not and no I'm not. One only has to read firedoglake or stevenleser May 2014 #95

Your entire attempt LondonReign2 May 2014 #96

That is your strawman. I did no such thing. nt stevenleser May 2014 #98

Its too bad you don't know what a strawman is LondonReign2 May 2014 #99

I know exactly what a strawman and the other logical fallacies are. You changed my argument stevenleser May 2014 #100

Nope. I took issue with your bullshit framing LondonReign2 May 2014 #120

Little Ralfie Rumplesuit Wolf Frankula May 2014 #94

I have completely lost patience with that whackadoodle, fabricating scold. MADem May 2014 #101

If he advocated for progressives who barely tolerate Democrats to join the Greens, he would Zorra May 2014 #103

As much as I would hate it, at least it wouldn't be completely illogical from an ideology stevenleser May 2014 #105

Agreed. Zorra May 2014 #115

That's the problem with The Left Right Template Armstead May 2014 #104

+10000 It's a tactic of division by corporatists woo me with science May 2014 #106

See my #108 below. The Libertarians are the ULTIMATE corporatists. nt stevenleser May 2014 #109

LOL. Exhibit A, and way to miss the point deliberately. nt woo me with science May 2014 #112

Yes, you did miss the point, and you are an example of whom Nader is targeting. nt stevenleser May 2014 #113

Just about everyone can find a couple of areas of agreement. That is not the point. stevenleser May 2014 #108

You're labeling again Armstead May 2014 #116

You would have a point if that was not how people self-identify. Moreover... stevenleser May 2014 #117

Not distraction -- Its the point Armstead May 2014 #119

Nader must be senile. Zen Democrat May 2014 #107