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In reply to the discussion: Triumph of the Ill - Ukraine Coup Leaders Turn on People [View all]freshwest
(53,661 posts)116. About that $5 billion figure being bandied about and Neuland. It's rated 'Pants On Fire':
President Barack Obama spent "$5 billion paying Ukrainians to riot and dismantle their democratically elected government."

Facebook posts on Wednesday, March 19th, 2014 in a Facebook meme
The United States spent $5 billion on Ukraine anti-government riots
Its a conspiracy with mainstream crossover: The United States bankrolled the bloody political uprising in Ukraine...
The Roots:
Victoria Neuland's words at a time when it garnered scant media attention:
The Truth:
"The insinuation that the United States incited the people of Ukraine to riot or rebel is patently false," said Nicole Thompson, a State Department spokeswoman.
Since 1992, the government has spent about $5.1 billion to support democracy-building programs in Ukraine, Thompson said, with money flowing mostly from the Department of State via U.S. Agency for International Development, as well as the departments of Defense, Energy, Agriculture and others. The United States does this with hundreds of other countries.
About $2.4 billion went to programs promoting peace and security, which could include military assistance, border security, human trafficking issues, international narcotics abatement and law enforcement interdiction, Thompson said. More money went to categories with the objectives of "governing justly and democratically" ($800 million), "investing in people" ($400 million), economic growth ($1.1 billion), and humanitarian assistance ($300 million)...
...spent over more than 20 years.
Yanukovych was elected in 2010. So any connection between the protests and the $5 billion is inaccurate.
And Obama was elected in 2008, so any connection between $5 billion and Obama also is inaccurate.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/
The truth does not fit the world view being promoted by conspiracy theorists. A post that went into the Neuland hatred was alerted by a DUer who described the source material:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014787623#post10
I thinkl those who believe in all of the spin offs to the Russia Today story that initiated this per the article, should give the article that was linked her, a good look. It has all the CT memes. And the end result is not at all pretty.
It will continue to work on a populace that maintains a willful ignorance, all the better to attack those doing the work of governments acting together in peaceful, but less public ways.
War talk, dirty laundry and rumor is exciting. They're cheap thrills that cost nothing except civil society.

Facebook posts on Wednesday, March 19th, 2014 in a Facebook meme
The United States spent $5 billion on Ukraine anti-government riots
Its a conspiracy with mainstream crossover: The United States bankrolled the bloody political uprising in Ukraine...
The Roots:
Victoria Neuland's words at a time when it garnered scant media attention:
...made clear the United States supported the protesters fight and spoke of how she met with Yanukovych, pressing him to end the pushback from Ukrainian security forces because it is "absolutely impermissible in a European state, in a democratic state..."
"Since Ukraine's independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions, as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are preconditions for Ukraine to achieve its European aspirations," she said. "We have invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine."
The Truth:
"The insinuation that the United States incited the people of Ukraine to riot or rebel is patently false," said Nicole Thompson, a State Department spokeswoman.
Since 1992, the government has spent about $5.1 billion to support democracy-building programs in Ukraine, Thompson said, with money flowing mostly from the Department of State via U.S. Agency for International Development, as well as the departments of Defense, Energy, Agriculture and others. The United States does this with hundreds of other countries.
About $2.4 billion went to programs promoting peace and security, which could include military assistance, border security, human trafficking issues, international narcotics abatement and law enforcement interdiction, Thompson said. More money went to categories with the objectives of "governing justly and democratically" ($800 million), "investing in people" ($400 million), economic growth ($1.1 billion), and humanitarian assistance ($300 million)...
...spent over more than 20 years.
Yanukovych was elected in 2010. So any connection between the protests and the $5 billion is inaccurate.
And Obama was elected in 2008, so any connection between $5 billion and Obama also is inaccurate.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/
The truth does not fit the world view being promoted by conspiracy theorists. A post that went into the Neuland hatred was alerted by a DUer who described the source material:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014787623#post10
I thinkl those who believe in all of the spin offs to the Russia Today story that initiated this per the article, should give the article that was linked her, a good look. It has all the CT memes. And the end result is not at all pretty.
It will continue to work on a populace that maintains a willful ignorance, all the better to attack those doing the work of governments acting together in peaceful, but less public ways.
War talk, dirty laundry and rumor is exciting. They're cheap thrills that cost nothing except civil society.
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Oh for Christ's sake, are we still pretending these aren't Russian forces in masks?
TwilightGardener
Apr 2014
#1
It's much easier for some people to throw conspiracy theorist crap against the wall....
Tommy_Carcetti
Apr 2014
#2
I know your heart, auto and admire it - you're wrong on this. They're trained military ops not
blm
Apr 2014
#31
I get the intention, but, tearing at Kerry for responding appropriately to Russia's aggression is
blm
Apr 2014
#46
The US doesn't need to spend any money to destabilize or create anti Russian sentiment in Ukraine.
Tommy_Carcetti
Apr 2014
#77
With all due respect, your opinion on political corruption matters nothing to Ukrainians.
Tommy_Carcetti
Apr 2014
#85
We are still capable of analyzing the situation even if we are not Ukrainian.
Tommy_Carcetti
Apr 2014
#89
About that $5 billion figure being bandied about and Neuland. It's rated 'Pants On Fire':
freshwest
May 2014
#116
He was driven from office, that is called a coup. Someone was in a hurry to avoid a country wide
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#101
Here is an article on the most recent UN report - they point to Assad - and they are experts
karynnj
Apr 2014
#92
"We'd do the same if Russia had toppled Mexico with an anti American fascist government."
Tommy_Carcetti
Apr 2014
#6
You appear get rather petulant and irrational when people have different opinions than you
LanternWaste
Apr 2014
#83
Sure, these aren't Russians taking over police stations and setting up "checkpoints".
TwilightGardener
Apr 2014
#14
Last week, the "locals" tried to take over some buildings, but didn't last long,
TwilightGardener
Apr 2014
#28
NATO Secretary General concerned about escalation in eastern Ukraine
muriel_volestrangler
Apr 2014
#34
It's possible they may have even infiltrated Maidan by now as well(or at least helped to do so!).
AverageJoe90
Apr 2014
#55
Got something to prove that? Speculation is rampant we know on all sides of this, but a little
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#96
"Self-determination" only applies to people we can control and/or exploit.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Apr 2014
#9
You know why Hersh published this in a book review magazine? No other place would publish it
karynnj
Apr 2014
#90
Yeah, Russian forces on the border looking for any excuse to reclaim what they think is theirs.
NuclearDem
Apr 2014
#15
The hypocrisy is stunning. But we know what it's all about, the neo-cons/libs are at the heart of
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#26
autorank, you have this wrong - those aren't peaceful protestors, they're trained military posing
blm
Apr 2014
#29
It's certainly been spun that way by some. I am not a casual news consumer, cprise,
blm
Apr 2014
#47
No - just attentive and focused - I don't buy spin, especially when it defies logic.
blm
Apr 2014
#79
You do know that independent medical tests confirmed that Yuschenko was poisoned, right?
Tommy_Carcetti
Apr 2014
#86
Nuland made clear what the role of the US is in this latest 'intervention'. Please, we have enough
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#95
Should we 'pay mind' to some of the worst crimes of the past decade and a half
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#103
Why did that ONE crime pop into your mind right now? Why not the persecution by one of our
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#107